AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 47 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After the stunt DTVPal just pulled, their approach to, & support of the OTA consumer is questionable. Perhaps because Echostar 's primary business is Dish Network satellite TV service. The more successful OTA DTV / HDTV is, the more it may impact the number of monthly Dish Network subscribers especially during the current economic climate in the US.


If one needs to record, perhaps a Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, or other DVD recorder is a better bet than DTVPal?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,266 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man /forum/post/14185662


After the stunt DTVPal just pulled, their approach to, & support of the OTA consumer is questionable. Perhaps because Echostar 's primary business is Dish Network satellite TV service. The more successful OTA DTV / HDTV is, the more it may impact the number of monthly Dish Network subscribers especially during the current economic climate in the US.


If one needs to record, perhaps a Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, or other DVD recorder is a better bet than DTVPal?


I think about that too. Maybe a real cheap DVD recorder that might be easier to use and with just one tuner to program. But I hate to leave my old recorder just sit there. Of course I could use it for just playing DVDs.


So far it seems difficult/impossible to find a converter for the price of a coupon only. That's it's going to cost $10 - $20 additional plus tax and/or shipping. Maybe it's time to see what cheap DVD recorder Walmart or Target has on sale and put the $20 toward that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
a DVD recorder WITH tuner is going to cost $130 and up at Walmart...of course, then you'll have a digital tuner AND an improved recorder...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/14188360


If you're going to upgrade, might as well go with an ATSC-tunered HDD model like the Philips or Magnavox.

Sounds like a plan. Are there similar competing Japanese models worthy of consideration?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,223 Posts
Unfortunately, no.


But the ones I mentioned are fine for OTA and using on an analog set.


If it was for QAM, and/or a larger, HD set, I probably wouldn't recommend them as your main tuner source.


The Philips DVDR3576H (lowest price at Sam's for only $249.95) is actually a pretty well-built and dependable unit.


One negative difference between it's tuner (and the Maggie's) and a CECB box is that you can't delete subchannels on it with out having to delete all. So if you don't mind having to flip through all those channels, it's OK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
If the concept of an ATSC-tunered HDD recorder is such a good idea, why don't the Japanese have a competing model? Does Philips hold a patent on the concept?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,223 Posts
Well, actually I think the Japanese do have some models like that. But I don't know if they could be used fully over here, and they might be pretty expensive. I know their Blu-Ray models are a couple thousand dollars.


It'd probably be a lot easier and cheaper to use the Philips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/14190972


Unfortunately, no.


But the ones I mentioned are fine for OTA and using on an analog set.


If it was for QAM, and/or a larger, HD set, I probably wouldn't recommend them as your main tuner source.


The Philips DVDR3576H (lowest price at Sam's for only $249.95) is actually a pretty well-built and dependable unit.


One negative difference between it's tuner (and the Maggie's) and a CECB box is that you can't delete subchannels on it with out having to delete all. So if you don't mind having to flip through all those channels, it's OK.

I'd say that is a real pain, and the price is quite an upgrade from "$20 towards a cecb"


I'm not interested myself, but for those with analog sets, I wonder if any of the less expensive DVD recorders have an atsc tuner control where you CAN establish a favorites list (or have a delete function), so that it's only the channels you are interested in that you get with channel up/down or - at least - a favorites button?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,660 Posts
Panasonics with the digital tuner allow you to delete sub channels but start at $229
but that would get you a digital audio out, Upconversion to 1080 and component/HDMI outputs.

Much cheaper to go the DTVPal route.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
137 Posts
Last time I looked at the high-end Sony DVR (RDR-VXD655), I couldn't get a straight answer from Sony Customer Support about whether it passed a full HD signal from the tuner to the television.


There was an obscure note in the manual that make me think it didn't, and I couldn't resolve it: "HD (High Definition) signal through this recorder is converted to SD (Standard Definition) signal, even if the HDMI OUT connection is used." Page 22 of http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/So.../RDRVXD655.pdf


Otherwise I would have bought it. One of these days I'll buy one at Fry's at try it. Anyway it's $379.99 MSRP!


See also: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=14058885
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,660 Posts
All DVDRs downconvert the signal to 480 and then some upconvert it back to whatever you select. It's not the same as HD by any means.

Mfgs. are rather tricky on their wording but they all do this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by avnstf /forum/post/14188073


a DVD recorder WITH tuner is going to cost $130 and up at Walmart...of course, then you'll have a digital tuner AND an improved recorder...
Walmart ATSC DVD Recorders: $130-$280


For those who are focusing on the additional cost of a DVD:
$130 = ATSC DVD instead of NTSC VCR (VHS resolution) + cost of DTVPal AND having to set two timers (VCR + DTVPAL) for each program - correct?

PLUS: Audio: SPDIF & analog. Video: component, S-Video, composite, & RF outputs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski /forum/post/14191498


Well, actually I think the Japanese do have some models like that. But I don't know if they could be used fully over here, ...

so, the Japanese don't have a similar HDD unit specifically for the US market?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by zqxthree /forum/post/14193439


Last time I looked at the high-end Sony DVR (RDR-VXD655), I couldn't get a straight answer from Sony Customer Support about whether it passed a full HD signal from the tuner to the television.


There was an obscure note in the manual that make me think it didn't, and I couldn't resolve it: "HD (High Definition) signal through this recorder is converted to SD (Standard Definition) signal, even if the HDMI OUT connection is used." Page 22 of http://www.sonystyle.com/wcsstore/So.../RDRVXD655.pdf


Otherwise I would have bought it. One of these days I'll buy one at Fry's at try it. Anyway it's $379.99 MSRP!


See also: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=14058885

Hi zqxthree,


FWIW, I read in CR that while the current tested models have ATSC QAM tuners, they are not able to record in true HD.
Quote:
"But there's a hitch: DVD recorders remain standard-definition in a world that's increasingly high-def."

So while this solution will work for a current SDTV, these DVD recorders may not be the best long-term choice if one eventually replaces their existing SDTV with a HDTV.

I hope this helps.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,857 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man /forum/post/14200979


Hi zqxthree,


FWIW, I read in CR that while the current tested models have ATSC QAM tuners, they are not able to record in true HD. So while this solution will work for a current SDTV, these DVD recorders may not be the best long-term choice if one eventually replaces their existing SDTV with a HDTV.

I hope this helps.

The DVD spec does not allow HD recording.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
The following discusses the future of DVD HD recording:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell /forum/post/10305260


7. Can I use an ATSC-capable DVD recorder as an HDTV receiver?


All of the units seen so far deliver only standard-definition (SD) output. They can receive high-definition (HD) signals, but they downconvert HD to SD both for recording and for immediate viewing via a line output. This is because of limitations in the first-generation integrated chips that are used for decoding and processing the ATSC signal in these units. Someone who works in the industry has stated here that newer chips will be available, that allow output of HD signals via a line output. See the following postings:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=932

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=947

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=953


However, as of April 2008, no such models had been announced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
674 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man /forum/post/14200878


so, the Japanese don't have a similar HDD unit specifically for the US market?

I just found some info on this question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell /forum/post/10305260

5. Why are there so few DVD recorders with hard disks (HDD) on sale now?


Older models with only NTSC tuners have mostly disappeared as pre March 1, 2007 stock sold out. As of April 2008, only four new models with ATSC/QAM tuners and HDD have appeared. Each of them has a discussion thread in this forum:


Philips DVDR3575H/37, which has a discussion thread and a FAQ thread .


Philips DVDR3576H/37, which is the successor to the preceding unit, and is apparently identical except for having a black finish instead of silver. Discussion and FAQs are therefore in the threads listed above.

Polaroid DRA-01601A

Magnavox H2080MW8


There have been reports that Panasonic, Toshiba, and Pioneer, at least, have no plans for such units.


Companies that have given reasons for this have indicated poor sales of the previous NTSC-only units. This is in line with the common availability in the USA of HDD DVRs leased by cable and satellite TV providers. These units have relatively low monthly fees in contrast to the high up-front cost of an HDD/DVD recorder, and can record encrypted channels that DVD recorders cannot (at least not directly). Most people apparently mainly want to be able to time-shift programs by recording them temporarily, and have limited interest in archiving programs on DVD.


This situation may change in the future as a result of the FCC mandate discussed in the next section.


Note that HDD/DVD recorders for digital TV are widely available outside the USA, e.g. in Europe, Japan and Australia, which do not have such a high penetration of proprietary leased cable and satellite equipment.


Some people have speculated that digital-rights management (DRM) issues are a cause of the lack of HDD/DVD recorders. That is, these units make it too easy to make high-quality recordings of copyrighted programs, so content providers have pressured consumer-electronics manufacturers to stop selling them in the USA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
I just saw such a unit advertised for the first time (by J&R), a Sony DVD/VCR recorder where the tuner outputs high-def...looks like they're increasing the price about as much for this added capability as a standalone digital (high-def) tuner!!!


referring to the non-high-def capable ATSC tuners in DVD recorder units for the last year as "first generation" seems a little silly...they already had 5th generation FULLY CAPABLE (ATSC/NTSC/QAM) chips in other types of units!
 
1 - 20 of 47 Posts
Top