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Discussion Starter #1
If I was to convert a DVD to MP4 (using, say, Nero Recode) and then from MP$ into Bluray (using Nero Vision), would I have created a file that would exceed its legitimate Bluray counterpart? Assume for this that I max out all of the settings, and that I do not resize to 1080p until the mp4-to-bluray process.


What I sought to do was somehow remove the black borders from most films. Seeing as no one tool seems capable of that, I decided recoding was my only option. Then when I saw the superb quality options Nero Vision had for Bluray creation, I knew that was my ticket. If they worked out, I may not need to buy Blurays at all!


Are the MPEG4 codecs used in Nero Recode and Nero Vision extremely different or very similar? If they are the latter, then maybe I could save time but retain quality by doing a one-pass in the mp4-to-bluray process.


In the end, I would have bluray files that display at 1920x1080 without black borders and are capable of LPCM audio.


One last thing, about bitrates: Nero Vision has a default max bitrate of 30mbps. I know this is changeable to any number, but what would be an acceptable (quality-wise) bitrate for blurays? The bitrate option in NV doesn't say if it's video only or for everything.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Phoenix /forum/post/14323508


If I was to convert a DVD to MP4 (using, say, Nero Recode) and then from MP$ into Bluray (using Nero Vision), would I have created a file that would exceed its legitimate Bluray counterpart? Assume for this that I max out all of the settings, and that I do not resize to 1080p until the mp4-to-bluray process.

No, you'll end up with something that (noticeable or not) is probably inferior to the DVD you started with. Both of your conversions there are lossy, so something is lost in both steps.

Quote:
What I sought to do was somehow remove the black borders from most films.

The black borders are there because the aspect ratio of the film is different than that of the TV/display, borders are the only way to compensate without distorting the film.

Quote:
Seeing as no one tool seems capable of that, I decided recoding was my only option. Then when I saw the superb quality options Nero Vision had for Bluray creation, I knew that was my ticket. If they worked out, I may not need to buy Blurays at all!

You're still starting with a compressed DVD (720x480) vs Blu-ray which comes from an uncompressed (or very lightly compressed) 2K or 4K (2048x1080 or 4096x2160 respectively) source usually.


No matter how good Nero's processing is it can't:
  • Restore the detail lost in converting a 2K or 4K source to DVD
  • Account for detail that may have been covered up in a poor master used for DVD but a new one done for Blu-ray.

Quote:
Are the MPEG4 codecs used in Nero Recode and Nero Vision extremely different or very similar?

They're probably the same, probably H.264 in both (if you're using AVC in Recode).

Quote:
If they are the latter, then maybe I could save time but retain quality by doing a one-pass in the mp4-to-bluray process.


In the end, I would have bluray files that display at 1920x1080 without black borders and are capable of LPCM audio.

It may be "LPCM" but it's no better than the audio was on the DVD, it's just bigger because it's no longer compressed. All you've got is an uncompressed, identical copy of the DVD's audio.

Quote:
One last thing, about bitrates: Nero Vision has a default max bitrate of 30mbps. I know this is changeable to any number, but what would be an acceptable (quality-wise) bitrate for blurays? The bitrate option in NV doesn't say if it's video only or for everything.

If you're starting with a DVD, I wouldn't think you'd need more than 8-10Mbps.


FWIW, IMO this whole exercise is pointless, the result isn't going to be any better than realtime upconverting, and you're introducing a number of lossy compression steps in the middle which can't help your end result.


This is not a comparable substitute for a "real" Blu-ray.
 

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Stranger is completly correct. How would you plan on adding resolution to what wasn't their in the first place. At best you may be able to create something on par with what you could just do with FFDShow or an upconverting DVD player. At worst, the pq will be inferior to even the original DVD due to reasons Stranger mentioned
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If the entire exercise is pointless, so be it. But I still need something to remove the black borders, preferably during playback of DVDs and Blurays.


I thought Media Player Classic Home Cinema or VLC would do this, although it distorted the image a bit but my eyes did adjust. But whilst the former's "scale to 16:9 tv" worked on certain DVDs like "Transformers" and "Kingdom of Heaven", it over-cropped DVDs like "Volcano" (which is weird because all 3 of them share the 2.35:1 APR).


Is there another way. I only loathe black borders because I have a Plasma TV.


EDIT: I'm using a widescreen monitor, which I now know is 16:10 in AR. Would the "scale to 16:9 tv" option work properly if my display device was an actual TV? (i have a pioneer kuro plasma, US model code 5080hd)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Phoenix /forum/post/14327253


If the entire exercise is pointless, so be it. But I still need something to remove the black borders, preferably during playback of DVDs and Blurays.


I thought Media Player Classic Home Cinema or VLC would do this, although it distorted the image a bit but my eyes did adjust. But whilst the former's "scale to 16:9 tv" worked on certain DVDs like "Transformers" and "Kingdom of Heaven", it over-cropped DVDs like "Volcano" (which is weird because all 3 of them share the 2.35:1 APR).


Is there another way. I only loathe black borders because I have a Plasma TV.


EDIT: I'm using a widescreen monitor, which I now know is 16:10 in AR. Would the "scale to 16:9 tv" option work properly if my display device was an actual TV? (i have a pioneer kuro plasma, US model code 5080hd)

The reason the image looks distorted, is because the image is distorted. How would you expect a 2.35 movie to look if it were stretched to fix a 16x9 image? The black bars aren't just their to annoy you, they serve a purpose. And don't worry about burn in, if you model is fairly recent their is very little chance of that happening, just make sure you occasionally switch to full screen material like a network HD broadcast
 

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Discussion Starter #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by davdev /forum/post/14329319


The reason the image looks distorted, is because the image is distorted. How would you expect a 2.35 movie to look if it were stretched to fix a 16x9 image? The black bars aren't just their to ignore you, they serve a purpose. And don't worry about burn in, if you model is fairly recent their is very little chance of that happening, just make sure you occasionally switch to full screen material like a network HD broadcast

I bought it in March. It's still got that "pink stuff cloud on black screen and dark scenes" problem, and I haven't heard back from the AU branch of Pioneer!! Been 2 weeks already!!


Back on track; yes, I know the image becomes distorted. However, after watching the Transformers DVD with the "scale to 16:9 tv" option turned on, my eyes have adjusted and I see nothing bad about it.


What I would like to know now is would the "scale to 16:9 tv" option also work with an actual 16:9 TV like my pioneer kuro 5080HD?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Phoenix /forum/post/14329652


What I would like to know now is would the "scale to 16:9 tv" option also work with an actual 16:9 TV like my pioneer kuro 5080HD?


Try it. It should work. If not, I am sure the Pio has plenty of zoom and stretch options.


Why you would spend so much money on a nice TV and then destroy the image is beyond me, but to each his own
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by davdev /forum/post/14330310


Try it. It should work. If not, I am sure the Pio has plenty of zoom and stretch options.


Why you would spend so much money on a nice TV and then destroy the image is beyond me, but to each his own

To protect it from those hideous black bars and to enjoy the movies as they should be viewed in the first place.


It does have some zoom and stretch options, but they don't affect black bars generated by DVDs, blurays or HD broadcasts that are for some reason 4:3.
 

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You can't make a square peg fit in a round hole unless you shrink the square peg but that will leave unused space on the sides (the unused spaces are your black bars). To fill up (thus using up all the available space) the hole you must stretch/distort the square peg. This is your only option a very bad one if you ask me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Phoenix /forum/post/14332361


To protect it from those hideous black bars and to enjoy the movies as they should be viewed in the first place.

Ok, now your showing you have no idea what you are talking about. The black bars are there so the movies can be viewed as they should be.


You really need to learn about aspect ratio's. Here is a little primer. A 16x9 screen has an aspect ratio of 1.78:1. If watching material presented in the same ratio, like broadcast HD, it will fill the screen as it should.


Now, say you want to watch Star Wars, which is shot at a ratio 2.35:1. Obviously, 2.35:1 is different thant 1.78:1, so you have several options. First, you could crop or zoom the image, so that it is now 1.78:1, but then you are losing a good portion of the image. Second, you could stretch the image veritcally to fit the screen, but then that leads to a distorted image where people tend to be taller and skinnier than normal, and circles turn into ovals.


The third, and correct, way to present the film is too apply those "hideous black bars". Sure you may lose some screen area on your TV, but you are getting the movie displayed in the correct aspect ratio without any distortion. If you really hate the black bars, then may I suggest a constant height front projector, but even their you will have to mask the sides for any films shot in less than a 2.35:1 ratio
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova Phoenix /forum/post/14332361


To protect it from those hideous black bars and to enjoy the movies as they should be viewed in the first place.


If you are viewing a 2.35 or 2.40:1 movie stretched onto a 16:9 display then sorry, you are NOT viewing the movie "how it should be viewed in the first place".


LOL.
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Favelle /forum/post/14333774


If you are viewing a 2.35 or 2.40:1 movie stretched onto a 16:9 display then sorry, you are NOT viewing the movie "how it should be viewed in the first place".


LOL.

True. Anyway, my experiment for using MPCHC failed. The movies were worse on my Plasma (bars on every side) when using the "scale to 16:9 tv" option. So I will gracefully accept defeat at the hands of the various ARs.
 
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