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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
BDP 51FD to Yamaha HTR6190 via HDMI 1.3 to Panasonic AE3000

Can adding a DVDo Edge Improve my picture ?

even with Bluray?


I find I have too much noise/artifacts.

SD DVD is even worse.


This is a new set up... upgraded from ae900 720P set up with SD dvd on S77S panny player, reg DVD looked much better than DVD on the 51FD.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 /forum/post/15444047

BDP 51FD to Yamaha HTR6190 via HDMI 1.3 to Panasonic AE3000

Can adding a DVDo Edge Improve my picture ?

even with Bluray?


I find I have too much noise/artifacts.

SD DVD is even worse.


This is a new set up... upgraded from ae900 720P set up with SD dvd on S77S panny player, reg DVD looked much better than DVD on the 51FD.

I have an AE1000 on a 106" screen. With SD DVD, I don't see much difference between my 51FD feeding 480i to the Edge and feeding 1080p to the Edge.


If it's noise and artifacts that are an issue maybe a Flea would be where to put your money. Someone who has a Flea could probably answer better than me.


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply...I'll look into that.

However.. You don't see much dif. feeding 480i vs 1080p to the edge ?

I see a big difference, 1080p has some artifacts 125" 2.40:1 cinema scope screen AE3000.

BUT.. 480i is almost unwatchable sometimes.

I've tweeked.. with no success.

Did the edge bring 480i close to 1080P quality. I'd buy it for that.

and look into mosquito.


I'll spend a thousand or more.. but not three thousand++ .

I mostly watch BD 1080P , but maybe 10% SD DVD 480. and 15% HDTV. 75% BD.


Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
All I read is arguments over weather a flea, mosquito, dragon flie, will clean up 1080P/24 fed HDMI.

????

Oh well...I'll keep reading
 

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Have you tried taking the Yamaha out of the chain to see if that improves things at all? If you are seeing "artifacts" with 1080p24 material on your current setup, it could be happening in the reciever since there really shouldn't be much processing going on with the picture (depending on how your Pio and Panny are set up).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have not tried ? hmm.. easy enough I will try that and play direct Pio to Pan ae3000 with no sound and watch.

I have the Pioneer almost all set to Auto, I used this forum to make neccessary adjustments to recomended settings(Ruin) member on here had a post.


Also the Yamaha is set to Through .. no upscaling Monster1000 10.2 gbs 1 meter.

The PJ will look great with 720p satelite, some 480i TV looks better than other.

Blu ray looks great.. but still some grain, more than I expected.


DVD looks aweful compare to old set up.

same screen, with ae900 and a s77s upconverting dvd player HDMI connected.

used to look identicle to 720P satelite material before. DiscoveryHD quality.

gave the player to my sister..I want it back now.


Now PQ is very blocky, squares left behind in moving picture.

Mode 1 for frame interpolation, but playing with that does not change piture in my opinion, not that my eyes can see.

Frame rate Normal, not fast.. so frame interpolation should be active.

Ive played and tweeked.. just plain BAD SD PQ and OK BD PQ.. actually pretty good.

Blacks and color saturation are 1,000 times improved over ae900.. WOW!! and sharp.

but.. digital compression noise artifacts.. I suspect AE3000 over the Pioneer.

But what processor could I use ? To help ?

Maybe the AE3000 has a defect ?

Any rate.. I was considering the DVDo edge to help.

or ???
 

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Aside from the grain it sounds like you're seeing macroblocking, which you shouldn't be seeing on BD or DVD unless it's a poorly done DVD. It sounds like there's some kind of processing issue somewhere. I've heard of Yamaha receivers messing with the signal even when set to through, you may want to go sift through the thread on your receiver to see if it is one of them. Other than that it could be a processing issue with your Pioneer or Panny, and getting a VP to get rid of that will really just mask an existing problem rather than fix it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks a lot, Yes macroblocking on some but not all dvd.

I'll check out Yammy threads.

never on blu ray..just a little grainy. Wall-E was superb.

and satelite.. just lots of grain.. some HD satelite (Nemo) HD CBS was 1080P quality.


I have a Monster HTS 700 SS coming to clean up my power supply.

I currently use a HTS 1000

I thought what the heck and got one..can't hurt, I'll be well protected at least.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HogPilot /forum/post/15447660


Aside from the grain it sounds like you're seeing macroblocking, which you shouldn't be seeing on BD or DVD unless it's a poorly done DVD. It sounds like there's some kind of processing issue somewhere. I've heard of Yamaha receivers messing with the signal even when set to through, you may want to go sift through the thread on your receiver to see if it is one of them. Other than that it could be a processing issue with your Pioneer or Panny, and getting a VP to get rid of that will really just mask an existing problem rather than fix it.

If your seing macro blocking on SD satelite signals, then it's not your reciever...SAT signals are crap!..they look perfect for 1 day then the next they look pixelated...it's not your recievers at all...just wait and keep checking your sat channels, till they look perfect, the atmosphere is a very electrically charges place, and it's silly to pass weak SD signals into it without picking up noise!...it's like running audio or video cables running beside an EMF generator etc...even HD signals are crap...but people live with those problems because they have no choice..that's why mpeg-4 is coming out...it actually removes the weaker pixels and equalizes the good ones from bad pixels resulting in improved and more consistent PQ.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 /forum/post/15448184


Thanks a lot, Yes macroblocking on some but not all dvd.

never on blu ray..just a little grainy. Wall-E was superb.

and satelite.. just lots of grain.. some HD satelite (Nemo) HD CBS was 1080P quality.


I have a Monster HTS 700 SS coming to clean up my power supply.

I currently use a HTS 1000

I thought what the heck and got one..can't hurt, I'll be well protected at least.

The OP originally said he saw bad blocking, then he refined it down in the bold portion above saying that he sees it with some DVDs. In this case it may be a low quality DVD or it may be something else. His original posts saying that all sources looked bad are what made me recommend he check the components in his chain.


If it's just the SD cable that looks like crap - which wasn't the only thing he said looked like crap in his first several posts - then yes, that's just a result of the compression applied to the signal. As others have said before, you can't polish a turd, and a lot of satellite and cable SD feeds are over compressed as it is, then when viewed on a 1080p screen the macroblocking and other artifacts become amplified. Even HD broadcasts can suffer from compression artifacts if they're bit-starved (aka "HD-lite") so they're hardly immune from what you're seeing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have been a little unclear in my statements so here goes..

Some Blu ray has some grain... I was wanting to know of a processor that can Improve 1080/24 picture.

All blu ray looks good to great, but I wanted to see if I could improve the good to great ?

SD DVD is mostly bad, Blocky/ lots of artifacts.. but 20-30% will look pretty acceptable, not Great.

Half of 720P satelite movies look good like Discovery HD, 80-90% as good as Bluray.

I don't watch any 480i TV but it is really bad.


I wanted to Improve my Bluray picture as well as SD DVD.

I watch 75% blu ray and 15% SD DVD and 10% HDTV

I was interested in DVDo Edge to improve the PQ in all the above??
 

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Your only choice at less than a grand is a used Flea HDMI. It will decrease noise and does process 1080p24 with latest firmware. It has a bug that converts all RGB signals to PC levels so take that into account. It also will not pass multichannel PCM nor bitstream HBR audio. It is pretty much a noise reduction machine only with two HDMI inputs/one output and does not come with remote control.


Other fully functional VP's with full noise reduction features include Denon DVP-602ci, Calibre Vantage HD, Lumagen Radiance, and Denon AVP in ascending order of price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks.

Well I only need 2 inputs and one output.

satelite is output dolby digital one HDMI cable..1080i looks better than 720P, I just played with that, less jagged edges.

BDP 51FD is output Bitstreem one HDMI cable.. Color is set to auto.

to

Yamaha 6190

to

AE3000 PJ.

That's it.

I'll read up on the VP's.

say a 1500 budget.


ps.

HBR audio = High Bit Rate ? Sorry I'm new to this.. I need to consider what is high bitrate?

192khz?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 /forum/post/15451844


ps.

HBR audio = High Bit Rate ? Sorry I'm new to this.. I need to consider what is high bitrate?

192khz?

Yes, high bit rate. It refers to the new audio codecs (DTS-HD, Dolby TrueHD, etc.) passed in bitstream form to a HDMI 1.3 capable receiver for decoding. Multichannel PCM is the other way of getting advanced audio to your avr (must be at least HDMI 1.1 capable). Flea HDMI will pass neither so for advanced audio you'll need to pass the audio to the avr first before the Flea. This may or may not work well depending on your system requirements.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
sat/BDP 51- to Yamaha..- then to the Flea to AE300 pj. One input-one output.

NO effect on Audio.

Yamaha will likely do some video processing before it hits the flea, but that should have little effect.

I do see new ones for under 1k and used ones for less than that.

I think I'll try one, if I can find a used one.

sell it if I don't see any improvement.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 /forum/post/15454150


sat/BDP 51- to Yamaha..- then to the Flea to AE300 pj. One input-one output.

NO effect on Audio.

Yamaha will likely do some video processing before it hits the flea, but that should have little effect.

I do see new ones for under 1k and used ones for less than that.

I think I'll try one, if I can find a used one.

sell it if I don't see any improvement.

The Yamaha you have has ABT scaling/deinterlacing if I'm not mistaken. You may want to try allowing the Yamaha to scale/deinterlace. That's the problem with the Flea. It won't process or even accept 1080p60, and it doesn't handle HDMI audio (or video for that matter) correctly.


Therefore to use the flea, you'll either have to give up the video processing capability of the Yamaha or give up advanced audio for whatever sources are running through the flea. Remember also that the Flea will mishandle RGB sources (many sat/cable boxes) and incorrectly convert to PC levels.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegamble66 /forum/post/15451163


I have been a little unclear in my statements so here goes..

Some Blu ray has some grain... I was wanting to know of a processor that can Improve 1080/24 picture.

All blu ray looks good to great, but I wanted to see if I could improve the good to great ?

SD DVD is mostly bad, Blocky/ lots of artifacts.. but 20-30% will look pretty acceptable, not Great.

Half of 720P satelite movies look good like Discovery HD, 80-90% as good as Bluray.

I don't watch any 480i TV but it is really bad.


I wanted to Improve my Bluray picture as well as SD DVD.

I watch 75% blu ray and 15% SD DVD and 10% HDTV

I was interested in DVDo Edge to improve the PQ in all the above??

Some transfers, even BluRay, are MUCH better than others. Some of them are just pure crap.


Get ahold of a copy of Ratatoullie (sp?) and see what THAT looks like. Then you'll know where you are for sure.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson-Flyer /forum/post/15454410


Some transfers, even BluRay, are MUCH better than others. Some of them are just pure crap.


Get ahold of a copy of Ratatoullie (sp?) and see what THAT looks like. Then you'll know where you are for sure.

+1


I love American Psycho, but when I watched it on BD I could have sworn that it was an upscaled DVD transfer that was blown on to a BD disc. Then as you mentioned, you have movies like Ratatoullie or Transformers that look spectacular on the big screen (or maybe it was just the eye candy in Transformers, and I'm not talking about the robots
)
 

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Don't bother testing Any SD DVD for picture unless the DVD case states it has been Enhanced for 16:9 Widescreen TV's. Most newer DVD's have that mentioned on the case somewhere on the back, plus make sure the DVD is Dual layer, this adds more data to the image producing better colors and more resolution. I went through the same issue testing all my SD dvd's for picture quality on my new LCD set.


At first I thought I had an issue with my set and poor performance, did a little DVD research and looked for Video reviews of the DVD's I owned...it ended up nearly the entire collection I had was graded as poor video quality for the specific years the DVD's where released...I tossed them all in the garbage and bought all the same copys that where digitally remastered for 16:9 TV's. These newer transfers eclipsed the video quality of the poorer released titles I owned. I can mention a few I replaced: Run Lola Run, The Crow, Natural Born Killers, True Romance all from back in the late 90's...the remastered copy's are definatly worth the buy...solid picture and sound with no artifacts at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
The PQ definilty varries from disc to disc.

But, On my old PJ ae900 and a s77s DVDplayer the PQ was double as good.

Perhaps a tiny bit softer than the ae3000.. But NO artifacts? No blocking, Ever! on a 106" 16:9 screen.

Now I have artifacts on most DVD(not all) and some grain on most Blu-ray, although most Bluray Ive seen look good enough, just wanted better..If possible ?

DTS MA over Dolby Digital is 300% better. (Ear candy)

Blu-ray over DVD is maybe 30% better.. A good dvd transfer is=to or better than a bad Bluray.

I now choose Bluray for the sound difference more than the picture.

Not what I expected.
 
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