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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does DirecTV's selection of DVI make an HD Tivo infeasible or a lot more expensive? Almost all of my DirecTV viewing is time shifted and if that will not be possible, it may be necessary to shift to digital cable.
 

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DVI is intended to be the display connector. In the press release that was posted here earlier, both the cable rep and the Echostar/Dish representatives mentioned that they continue to support 1394 as a recording connection. I didn't see specific comment from DirecTV, so maybe somebody else here knows if they intend to provide a 1394 connector.


Another possibility: there's presently a standard-def DirecTV with a built-in TiVo. I would think that that one possible solution if they don't want to put 1394 on the box would be to build a DirecTV with an HD-capable internal TiVo. Then, if you're happy with the TiVo, you don't care that the box only has DVI output (assuming you have a DVI display), because you're watching your TiVo over that connector as well.


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Mike Kobb

(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks. That is a little reassuring. I own a DirecTivo standard def box, but got worried by Merson's newsletter indicating that lack of compression in the DVI system would cause problems for timeshifting or recording.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JustMike:
I would think that that one possible solution if they don't want to put 1394 on the box would be to build a DirecTV with an HD-capable internal TiVo. Then, if you're happy with the TiVo, you don't care that the box only has DVI output (assuming you have a DVI display), because you're watching your TiVo over that connector as well.
I think any STB is going to need 5C output as well as DVI. The 5C would be needed to run long distances to a 5C to DVI converter that would then go into the display. This is needed for projectors at the opposite end of the room from the AV equipment.


Many people will want a 5C splitter so they can run one STB to more than one display in their house as is often done. The splitter would drive two or more 5C output chips from one 5C input.


A good scaler would need a 5C input and a DVI output. The scaler would take advantage of the motion measurement vectors and pixel change information in the compressed signal to go to for example 1080p with 72 fps. The scaler would use that information to interpolate between film frames.


People will also want one or more external recorders to provide upgrade flexibility. Those recorders will require 5C.
 

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Do the various 5C and HDCP licenses even allow for converting from one to the other?


For instance in the scaler example above there is no provision for the 5C box to pass HDCP revocation lists or whatever.


And 5C certainly wouldn't be allowed to be converted to unencrypted DVI.


- Tom


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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry:
Do the various 5C and HDCP licenses even allow for converting from one to the other?


For instance in the scaler example above there is no provision for the 5C box to pass HDCP revocation lists or whatever.


And 5C certainly wouldn't be allowed to be converted to unencrypted DVI.
A STB receives 5C and outputs DVI. A converter box would be the same except leaving out the satellite tuner in the middle. If a STB can pass a revocation list, a converter box would be able to do the same thing.


I don't think it is forbidden but I also don't know if it is allowed. A converter box or scaler would still meet the requirements of keeping everything secure.


A converter box or scaler would be putting out encrypted DVI. It would be illegal if the DVI was not encrypted.


Thinking about these needs for DBS users, it occurred to me that there may be a problem in the design. A big feature of DBS is the on screen schedule and channel details. This can not be put on 5C because it would require encrypting the video after the text was put on the screen.


No where are 5C encryption keys provided to the end user hardware. The solution is to put that data on the Firewire as a text or bit map stream as unencrypted bits. The converter and scaler boxes could then overlay it on the DVI video just as the STB would do.


It would be a matter of someone defining the standard. There is more than enough capacity on Firewire to send this low data rate information.


[This message has been edited by jackmay (edited 08-04-2001).]
 

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I would think that any future HDTV PVR would only be

done with an integrated receiver (a la DirecTiVo or Ultimate TV). There would be no external connection for HD Video in/out other than the display port (perhaps DVI/HDCP only).


I bet the first HDTV PVR we see is the one from Dish Network next year. TiVo may wait longer due to limited R&D and need to see a big enough market. Dish may do it just to show that they are HDTV technology leaders. DirecTV may be working with UltimateTV, RCA/Thompson or someone else to do one but with only 1 (current) directTV HD channel it doesn't seem like they would be in a big hurry.


I doubt we ever see a "standalone" HD PVR other than ones built into desktop PCs (with things like HiPix or AccessDTV).


Just a guess though.
 

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Philips already has a prototype of a DirecTiVo that records HD. They demonstrated it at this years CES. They claimed it would ship this year but I wouldn't look for it until next year. Zenith is also planning a HD PVR for DirecTV that is slated to ship in the first half of next year.
 
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