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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone have any knowledge of or any experience with the DVI connection on the Sony hs500 or hs510 series 4:3 direct view TVs?


I know that when sending a 480p signal to these TVs via the component connection (whether from a DVD player or HDTV box), the TV shows the picture as full screen when 16:9 Enhanced mode is set to Auto (whether the picture is anamorphic or not). However, with a 720p or 1080i signal, via component connection, the TV is "stuck" in 16:9 Enhanced mode. Of course, since all 720p and 1080i material will be widescreen, this is not much of a problem.


What I'd like to know is how the TV treats 480p signals that are sent via the DVI connection. Will it work the same as if connected via the component cables or will it "squash" all signals sent via DVI whether they are anamorphic widescreen or not? I have a lot of DVDs from TV series like Cheers, Friends, etc...and I do not want the TV to "squash" the 4:3 formatted picture.


Please respond if you have experience with the DVI hook-up. Thanks :)
 

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Problem is there aren't to many folks around with DVI experience yet. You might try making your inquiry in the DVD Hardware forum in one of the Bravo D1 or Samsung 931 threads, where people will have more experience with this.


FWIW, on my Sony 34XBR800 widescreen CRT, when I input 480p through DVI using an HTPC, the Normal, Zoom and Wide modes are still available. Alot of users (like you) have 4:3 DVDS so it wouldn't make much sense to cripple the ability to watch those by forcing them into a Full mode.
 

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Quote:
However, with a 720p or 1080i signal, via component connection, the TV is "stuck" in 16:9 Enhanced mode. Of course, since all 720p and 1080i material will be widescreen, this is not much of a problem.
It may not be a "problem" but for some people it's definitely a nuisance. There's apparently more 4:3 content being broadcast in HD than originally expected. And on 4:3 TVs which lock HD to 16:9 Full mode, sometimes you end up with a rather small picture with black borders all around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the response.


Since the chassis is probably the same, with modest programming changes, between the 4:3 direct view and 16:9 direct view TVs, they probably behave similar. Given that your TV is NOT "stuck" and allows ZOOM when you receive a 480p signal via DVI, I believe I am safe in assuming that the 4:3 TVs aren't stuck in 16:9 enhanced mode when receiving a 480p signal via DVI.


However, you also bring up a good point about 4:3 material in HI-DEF. Sony really made a bonehead decision when they did not provide an OFF feature for 16:9 enhanced mode with HI-DEF sources for the 4:3 sets. They also made the same mistake by eliminating ZOOM and STANDARD modes with HI-DEF sources on the 16:9 sets.


The assumption that "the future will be ALL widescreen" is an assumption that is correct ONLY with respect to film and video material that will be made IN THE DISTANT FUTURE (2007 and later).


However, SONY should remember that most if not ALL movies made before the 50's were filmed in the Academy Standard 4:3 format. I bet that when Blue-Ray (or whatever format wins) comes out, many people would love to get "Gone With The Wind" in glorious HI-DEF. Well, "Gone With The Wind" was filmed in 4:3 format!


Since SONY's TV's are being "forced" into a certain mode when receiving a HI-DEF, they must have made this incorrect assumption.


Your point about the HI-DEF 4:3 material reminded me of my concern about older 4:3 formatted movies that certainly will be released on HI-DEF DVD.


SONY really needs to correct this mistake in their sets ASAP.


Thanks again for the reponse! I'll also check the forums you suggested and am presently mulling over whether or not to start a new thread specific to this concern about future release of older 4:3 movies and shows in HI-DEF DVD.:)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by steevoreeno
Thanks for the response.


Since the chassis is probably the same, with modest programming changes, between the 4:3 direct view and 16:9 direct view TVs, they probably behave similar. Given that your TV is NOT "stuck" and allows ZOOM when you receive a 480p signal via DVI, I believe I am safe in assuming that the 4:3 TVs aren't stuck in 16:9 enhanced mode when receiving a 480p signal via DVI.


However, you also bring up a good point about 4:3 material in HI-DEF. Sony really made a bonehead decision when they did not provide an OFF feature for 16:9 enhanced mode with HI-DEF sources for the 4:3 sets. They also made the same mistake by eliminating ZOOM and STANDARD modes with HI-DEF sources on the 16:9 sets.


The assumption that "the future will be ALL widescreen" is an assumption that is correct ONLY with respect to film and video material that will be made IN THE DISTANT FUTURE (2007 and later).


However, SONY should remember that most if not ALL movies made before the 50's were filmed in the Academy Standard 4:3 format. I bet that when Blue-Ray (or whatever format wins) comes out, many people would love to get "Gone With The Wind" in glorious HI-DEF. Well, "Gone With The Wind" was filmed in 4:3 format!


Since SONY's TV's are being "forced" into a certain mode when receiving a HI-DEF, they must have made this incorrect assumption.


Your point about the HI-DEF 4:3 material reminded me of my concern about older 4:3 formatted movies that certainly will be released on HI-DEF DVD.


SONY really needs to correct this mistake in their sets ASAP.


Thanks again for the reponse! I'll also check the forums you suggested and am presently mulling over whether or not to start a new thread specific to this concern about future release of older 4:3 movies and shows in HI-DEF DVD.:)
That about sums up why I am returning my 32HS510. some Xbox games support 720p, however some are 4:3. I then wind up with about a 25" viewable area in the middle of my 32" TV. There is an option called 'jump' in the service menu that disables 16:9 compression, but it permanently disables it until you go back into the service menu and re-enable it. It still didn't do what I wanted though, as I then had a distorted (stretched vertically) image from the xbox, as I couldn't zoom!


I imagine with a computer it wouldnt be as much of an issue, but it is something sony could have easily avoided. The set has all the built in hardware required, yet it is disabled. It is such a waste. Now I have to try and find another Non-Sony set that will do 720p.
 

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It's a negative thing Dvanburen, that your Sony (I have the HS500) isn't up to par for you. Thanks to your post though, me and possibly a few others now know how to disable 1080/720p compression. I use my HDTV for PC gaming (through DVI input) and just went into service mode and set Jump to 0. I never knew It could be disabled, so in some situations where there is bad for some, there can arrive good for others.


As for 480p through DVI compressing the image, that doesn't happen on my KV-32hs500.
 

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Has anyone been able to find a quick and eaqsy way to go from jump=0 to jump=1? It seems as though that that setting is global for both 720p and 1080i as well as every input. Any ideas?
 

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Another interesting note: If you change the ID3 setting to 107 from 106, you get the advanced video menu from DRC V1. I don't think it actually does anything, as I did not see any difference in image quality when changing values for reality and clarity. I believe the TV doesn't have the correct circuitry/module. Even so, thought someone might want to know.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Dwe
It's a negative thing Dvanburen, that your Sony (I have the HS500) isn't up to par for you. Thanks to your post though, me and possibly a few others now know how to disable 1080/720p compression. I use my HDTV for PC gaming (through DVI input) and just went into service mode and set Jump to 0. I never knew It could be disabled, so in some situations where there is bad for some, there can arrive good for others.


As for 480p through DVI compressing the image, that doesn't happen on my KV-32hs500.
Hi Dwe.


I just responded to your post in another thread that I started. Thanks for adding input. I now see in this thread that you have been able to disable 16:9 enhanced mode. This is great news! What I'd really love to do is hook-up my PC via the DVI input like it appears that you have. What kind of resolutions have you been able to get? Do you use Powerstrip? Also, do you have a DVD player hooked up as well? If you have 16:9 mode disabled, how do you view anamorphic widescreen material in the proper format with out verticle "stretching"?


Any input would be greatly appreciated. :p
 

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I only seriously use my TV for PC gaming. I get so many resolutions using Power Strip. The TV gets only 640x480 as a standard PC resolution through DVI.


The rest of the modes are non-standard, e.g. 1024x450, 800x480, 960x720, the amount of non-standard res; you can create, is almost limitless. Thing is for me, I never cared for wide-screen, so just having anamorphic off on the 4:3 TV, is gold for me. I don't believe the TV is actually stretching the 1080i, because the TV can't display natural wide-screen anyway. With -Jump- (anamorphic) enabled, 1080i is squished, so either way, 720p/1080i will never technically be displayed as meant to be seen on any 4:3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Dwe,


Sounds like you are exclusively a gamer. I am mostly interested in video. However, with all of the great games that are available for PCs these days, I might become a gamer myself. ;)


Are ALL of the games that you play in the 4:3 format, or do some have a WIDESCREEN mode? Do you play ANY games in widescreen? Also, have you heard that Terminator 2 has been re-released in a two DVD package and had the movie on DVD 2 in 1080p HI-DEF Windows Media 9 format. It's only $19.99 and might be something interesting for you to test your computer as an HTPC for serving HI-DEF video. Just a thought. ;)


For the 4:3 format, can you get resolutions like 1440x1080 or 960x720 without severe overscan or no underscan....or do you play only in 640x480?


Also, what is your computer hardware?


Any info would be helpful and appreciated. :)


P.S. Microsoft claims that a 3GHz processor is necessary for T2 HDTV playback. If you have an AMD processor, a 2400+ model or better should be adequate.
 

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640x480 is the only -standard PC- mode that the TV will sync to without any modification to registry I meant. Once you use PowerStrip you can get so many more res.


I game with the highest res the games will support, some accept higher non-standard res than others. Unreal 2 is good game to test out non standard res on. I have not heard of any PC game that was only wide-screen, unlike consoles, you just choose what res you want to play with on PC anyway. The best result I found for no over-scan, is any res with 450 at the end. E.g. 1024x450, 720, 450, perfect vertical scan with minor horizontal over scan. I have been hearing about T2 special DVD, supposed to push the limits visually. I am not a Home-Theater enthusiast, thats why I am not concerned with too much movies or wide-screen display.


When it comes to res with over scan like 960x720, its up to ATI to release drivers to give us control over the scan area.


Setup:

Radeon9700pro (DVI out used), P4-2.26, 512-RD-ram, AsusP4t533 MoBo, Audigy2 EX, Aopen1648 16xDVD, WinXP, Dual 40G Maxtor ata133 mirror mode.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dwe
When it comes to res with over scan like 960x720, its up to ATI to release drivers to give us control over the scan area.
Do really think this will ever happen? Have you adjusted the overscan in the service menu? I'm really hoping people get good results with the 36HS510 and 720P it might sway me from the 38" monivision.
 

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I just got my 36hs500 to work with my HTPC today. I am using the DVI out on my AIW8500 DV and have it connected using a single link DVI-D cable.

Problem is that the only resolutions I have working are 640x480 and 720x480.

Anything above the 480p gives me black bars on the top and the bottom(letterboxing?).

I just read about the jump setting above. Do you think that will help me get rid of the black bars? If yes then I should be golden.

Actually I have never gotten into the service menu so am a bit hesitant to open it up. Am basically a newbie at HT stuff but much more proficient with PC's.

My major app for the setup would be DIVX movies. And the minor ones would be games and PVR.
 

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this is a 4:3 television if memory serves. The reason that hogher resolutions (i.e. 540p and 1080i) are giving you the black bars on the top and bottom are because they are suppose to. Anything that is not 31.5kHz in your case is going to. I'm not familiar with using DVI (I use a transcoder myself), but if you want fullscreen 4:3, you have very few options. You have your 480 timings which you already have working as well as standard PC resolutions with 480 timings (i.e. [email protected] instead of 33.75, [email protected] instead of 33.75, etc.). Just look at it this way: Your TV goes into widescreen mode based on these frequencies. 31.5=4:3 and 33.75=16:9 as well as 45=16:9 (that is 720p by the way). Hope that helps...
 

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Jump does work but it is not input independent like a lot of settings are. This means that anytime you watch any true high-def signals, you will have a stretched image vertically. JUMP does work and don;t be afraid to try it out. I have the 36XBR800 myself (same aspect ratio as yours) but also watch HD so I really just use 640x480p for most PC things....if you haven;t checked it out already, you may want to look for a nice frontend that makes navigating through 640x480 a breeze (i.e. www.myHTPC.com ). If you are only using the PC to watch video and possible the occasional game, 640x480 is just fine. The only reason I have founf for using 540p/1080i settings on a 4:3 television would be to scale DVD. Stick with 640x480. I've been playing with setting since late February and just recently have come to the realization that 640x480p is all you really need or want considering the alternatives (aside from [email protected] which I use to play Wolfenstein on the bigscreen..nice by the way). Let me know if I should clarify a ltitle more.
 

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I am not understanding something. If you are watching somethin IN HD, and the program has a native resolution of 4:3...then wouldn't you WANT to turn the JUMP off?? Wouldn't you then GET the full HD on the FULL SCREEN????
 

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By turning the jump back off I suspect you mean back to the original intended setting, correct? If so, I should tell you that there is not HD material available that IS 4:3. It is all 16:9. That is the nature of the beast. If you happen to catch something being broadcast in a 4:3 ratio on an HD station, it is just a SDTV broadcast (usually commercials) being slipped into the HD stream. No mater what, a 4:3 HDTV wants to switch to widescreen when HD material is detected (which is by scanrate/approx 33.75khz or 45khz). If you use the JUMP tweak, you are just stretching that image vertically which not only makes for some horrible HDTV-viewing, but also is taking the tight resolution you were getting and stretching it vertically, which produces a worse picture of course. There really isn't much need to use the JUMP setting unless all you do is play games on the television via the PC. Otherwise, just leave it alone.
 
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