dvi dvd players?
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Marantz 8300-DVI. Not sure whether it's released or not. About $1k, AFAIK.
Tag McLaren DVD32R-PSM192. It's available now. Not sure how much this costs in that part of ocean. about $6~7k ?
Meridian 800. HDMI card is supposedly available in summer. $20k+ depending on options.
Tag McLaren DVD32R-PSM192. It's available now. Not sure how much this costs in that part of ocean. about $6~7k ?
Meridian 800. HDMI card is supposedly available in summer. $20k+ depending on options.
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The Marantz DV-8400 ($1699.99) is expected late April. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post2069453.
Bob
Bob
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The problem with the Marantz gear is that they are usually based on pioneer guts (ie. mediocre deinterlacing/mpeg decoding).
The advantage of the 931 is that it uses the fli2300 chip for deinterlacing, scaling and frame rate conversion. Passing a 720p signal digitally via DVI to any of the crop of HD2 projectors available that can 1:1 pixel map has some serious potential for pq improvement. Unfortunately it remains to be seen what role protected discs will have in how it handles the signal.
Chris
| Originally posted by Robert Deutsch The Marantz DV-8400 ($1699.99) is expected late April. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post2069453. |
The advantage of the 931 is that it uses the fli2300 chip for deinterlacing, scaling and frame rate conversion. Passing a 720p signal digitally via DVI to any of the crop of HD2 projectors available that can 1:1 pixel map has some serious potential for pq improvement. Unfortunately it remains to be seen what role protected discs will have in how it handles the signal.
Chris
Of course there are many people on this forum who use computers to play DVDs and output DVI to their projector/TV, which is probably the highest quality video playback currently available for DVDs. I use a PC to play DVDs on my projector, but my projector is 2 year-old technology thus no DVI input, so I use VGA.
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Actually, it's pretty straightforward--HDCP must be applied, per the CSS licensing agreement, to be legit. In other words, to get upscaled 720p/1080i via DVI from these new crop of players, you *have* to have a DVI/HDCP compliant display. Or one of those firmward upgrade discs... 
| Originally posted by cmont Unfortunately it remains to be seen what role protected discs will have in how it handles the signal. |
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I am well aware of that but that is not what I was referring to. Samsung's previous scaling, via dvi, player the HD1000 would not scale to 720p/1080i any disc that was copy protected. Based on CSS keys it would keep the source material's original resolution. There has been considerable conjecture as to whether this new unit, the 931, will scale all sources not just the unprotected ones. I do not think anyone can say conclusively until production units are out though there are indications lately it is more likely to convert copy protected discs rather than not.
Chris
| Originally posted by amillians Actually, it's pretty straightforward--HDCP must be applied, per the CSS licensing agreement, to be legit. In other words, to get upscaled 720p/1080i via DVI from these new crop of players, you *have* to have a DVI/HDCP compliant display. Or one of those firmward upgrade discs... |
Chris
Chris,
The HD1000 didn't support DVI, only component, and yes, with a firmware "upgrade," it would support scaling of all content to 720p/1080i, in clear violation the CSS licensing requirements, which disallows outputing anything greater than 480p for NTSC material per CSS Procedural Specifications, v2.0, Section 6.2.1.1(1)(b), save for the obscure allowances allowed in Section 6.2.1.1(2) for non-protected content stored at a native resolution higher than 480p.
As for the 931, it's perfectly legit to output CSS video data at 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc. via DVI, so long as HDCP is applied (CSS Procedural Specifications, v2.0, Section 6.2.1.2). As such, I would continue to argue that the 931 will scale any and all content to 720p/1080i (as advertised) for output via DVI/HDCP. Why would they artificially limit or constrain output via DVI/HDCP when nothing says that they have to? In the case of the 931, they can have a 100% legit player; in the case of the HD1000, they couldn't, and they--by design or by error--acted accordingly.
The HD1000 didn't support DVI, only component, and yes, with a firmware "upgrade," it would support scaling of all content to 720p/1080i, in clear violation the CSS licensing requirements, which disallows outputing anything greater than 480p for NTSC material per CSS Procedural Specifications, v2.0, Section 6.2.1.1(1)(b), save for the obscure allowances allowed in Section 6.2.1.1(2) for non-protected content stored at a native resolution higher than 480p.
As for the 931, it's perfectly legit to output CSS video data at 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc. via DVI, so long as HDCP is applied (CSS Procedural Specifications, v2.0, Section 6.2.1.2). As such, I would continue to argue that the 931 will scale any and all content to 720p/1080i (as advertised) for output via DVI/HDCP. Why would they artificially limit or constrain output via DVI/HDCP when nothing says that they have to? In the case of the 931, they can have a 100% legit player; in the case of the HD1000, they couldn't, and they--by design or by error--acted accordingly.
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I should have said not via dvi. My mistake. But originally it did not support 720p/1080i. As for why they would limit output I do not have an answer. It would not be the first time the consumer was limited to accessing high resolution digital content. Since the HD1000 was via component I suspect they felt less nervous about releasing such content. I know that your argument would be well it is going out via HDCP but lets face it there is no such thing as totally secure digital content.
I agree they can have a legit player but I am just not sure if they will. I certainly hope so as this would be a dream player for a fixed pixel device with DVI.
Chris
| Originally posted by amillians Chris, The HD1000 didn't support DVI, only component, and yes, with a firmware "upgrade," it would support scaling of all content to 720p/1080i, in clear violation the CSS licensing requirements, which disallows outputing anything greater than 480p for NTSC material per CSS Procedural Specifications, v2.0, Section 6.2.1.1(1)(b), save for the obscure allowances allowed in Section 6.2.1.1(2) for non-protected content stored at a native resolution higher than 480p. As for the 931, it's perfectly legit to output CSS video data at 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc. via DVI, so long as HDCP is applied (CSS Procedural Specifications, v2.0, Section 6.2.1.2). As such, I would continue to argue that the 931 will scale any and all content to 720p/1080i (as advertised) for output via DVI/HDCP. Why would they artificially limit or constrain output via DVI/HDCP when nothing says that they have to? In the case of the 931, they can have a 100% legit player; in the case of the HD1000, they couldn't, and they--by design or by error--acted accordingly. |
I agree they can have a legit player but I am just not sure if they will. I certainly hope so as this would be a dream player for a fixed pixel device with DVI.
Chris
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The V Inc. Bravo D1 was supposed to ship in February, with DVI/HDCP outputs and MPEG4 decoding capabilities, all for under $200. Anyone know what happened to that player?
It should be available next week, the 15th or 16th. Sound & Vision did a review of it in the recent issue. They say the DVI image is extremely good all other feeds are bad, component/composite/S-video. Their recomendation, "if DVI is all you need, then it's highly recommended."
Not to start a firestorm here, but I recently noticed this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...roduct-details
Which includes the following:
"T2: High Definition": the complete theatrical version of the film in Microsoft Windows Media 9 series, playable in high resolution and 5.1 sound directly from your PC's DVD-ROM
So I'm thinking to myself--how long will it be before all DVDs have some sort of HD version, be it WM9 or some other HD DVD format. And does this mean that we all have to get HTPCs with DVI video cards or will there be stand-alone DVD players that support these formats?
I guess for $199, I could take a flyer and buy a new DVD player only 1.5 years after buying my progressive scan JVC, but it seems like there's something even better that's here right now for some movies and even newer DVI+HD DVD players might surface in the very near future.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...roduct-details
Which includes the following:
"T2: High Definition": the complete theatrical version of the film in Microsoft Windows Media 9 series, playable in high resolution and 5.1 sound directly from your PC's DVD-ROM
So I'm thinking to myself--how long will it be before all DVDs have some sort of HD version, be it WM9 or some other HD DVD format. And does this mean that we all have to get HTPCs with DVI video cards or will there be stand-alone DVD players that support these formats?
I guess for $199, I could take a flyer and buy a new DVD player only 1.5 years after buying my progressive scan JVC, but it seems like there's something even better that's here right now for some movies and even newer DVI+HD DVD players might surface in the very near future.
Whoa!!! There have been so many posts recently expressing the opinion that HD-DVD in 1080 (i or p) is probably at least 3 - 5 years down the road. But placing aside the nonsense going on with the DVD Forum, it seems to me that if HDCP and/or HDMI can relieve their concerns about digital piracy, the movie studios would just love to re-release already existing films on another new media for a heckuva lot of new revenue with fairly limited cost. How many people out there (particularly at this website) own copies of the same movies on VHS (or Beta), LD, DVD (and even "Superbit")? The ultimate irony may be that after stalling HD progress for so many years, the movie studios may now become a strong advocate of moving HD ahead quickly.
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Palladin
No matter where you go, there you are
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Palladin
No matter where you go, there you are
I'm a victim of this... even the worst case of buying the LOTR:FOTR DVD and then later buying the "Special Edition".
Does anybody know if Terminator 2 is the first (only) film to have a WM9 high definition version included? It sounds like HD DVD is here on June 3--even if it's not a standard.
Even if there's another format war, we--the consumer--will likely be the benefit as all sides push the cost of their products down and plumb in support for every format available.
Does anybody know if Terminator 2 is the first (only) film to have a WM9 high definition version included? It sounds like HD DVD is here on June 3--even if it's not a standard.
Even if there's another format war, we--the consumer--will likely be the benefit as all sides push the cost of their products down and plumb in support for every format available.
T2 is actually the second such disk with WMV9 HD bonus disk. The first one to come out is the independent film "Shadows of Motown" which we helped exhibit digitally in WMV 9 last year in theaters. Of course, T2 is a much higher profile project and will be encoded in higher resolution.
BTW, there is a much more detailed thread in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=247116 which includes some tidbits of data that I could divulge about the project.
Amir
Microsoft
BTW, there is a much more detailed thread in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=247116 which includes some tidbits of data that I could divulge about the project.
Amir
Microsoft
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