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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Rather than hijacking the Channel Master DVR+ vs TiVo Roamio OTA thread, I thought I would start a new thread.

I am planning to leave Dish and am also trying to decide between these two DVRs. I have Windows Media Center, and can get all my locals, save for ABC. PBS is iffy, too, but I can turn the antenna for those shows- if I don't forget!

I can get ABC one out of my area, (Baltimore) but WMC does not give me guide data for that one. I am concerned that I will run into the same problem with these DVRs? As I understand it, the DVR+ will give me a few hours of guide data for that channel. Will season pass type recordings work with that limited guide data?

I only have one TV, I think I would be OK with two tuners. I also have a Roku, I don't need DVR apps for streaming content.

Some time down the road I'll buy a different antenna. I should be able to get all my nets from Philly, (don't know that for sure) rather than my own DMA. My antenna does not do VHF well. I can't at present get Philly's ABC nor PBS (6 and 12).

So, will I get full guide data for the out of my DMA channels and sub channels on either unit? I am leaning towards the CM DVR+ because of the cost, around $300 for the DVR and one TB drive.
Thanks!
 

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I have 2 channels that act in the manner you describe where they only get 2 days worth of guide data on the DVR+. On the Tivo they get the full 14-days. Why this is I don't know as every other channel I get on the DVR+ has the full 14-day guide. I do not believe they are out of my market though so I don't know what happens in that instance with either the DVR+ or the Tivo since all the channels I get are in my market.

On the DVR+ what happens is I schedule a recording for a show on one of these channels. Obviously the 1st time you schedule it, it has to be listed and within the 2-day guide data window. Once I tell the DVR+ to record this show it will record all future shows even though they may not currently be listed in the guide.

As the DVR+ updates the guide data and when that show is within the 2-days guide window then DVR+ will then schedule it.

Did any of that make sense? LOL.

I do not have this issue on the Tivo. The 2 channels I have that behave this way on the DVR+ do not do so on the Tivo. The Tivo does list the entire 14 day schedule for these channels.

Not much help I know but that's my .02 worth..
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have 2 channels that act in the manner you describe where they only get 2 days worth of guide data on the DVR+. On the Tivo they get the full 14-days. Why this is I don't know as every other channel I get on the DVR+ has the full 14-day guide. I do not believe they are out of my market though so I don't know what happens in that instance with either the DVR+ or the Tivo since all the channels I get are in my market.

On the DVR+ what happens is I schedule a recording for a show on one of these channels. Obviously the 1st time you schedule it, it has to be listed and within the 2-day guide data window. Once I tell the DVR+ to record this show it will record all future shows even though they may not currently be listed in the guide.

As the DVR+ updates the guide data and when that show is within the 2-days guide window then DVR+ will then schedule it.

Did any of that make sense? LOL.

I do not have this issue on the Tivo. The 2 channels I have that behave this way on the DVR+ do not do so on the Tivo. The Tivo does list the entire 14 day schedule for these channels.

Not much help I know but that's my .02 worth..
Thanks! I think that answers my main question.
 

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The guide on the DVR+ is provided by Rovio and goes out 14 days. The guide is provided based on your zip code. In my case, I have an ABC affiliate in Santa Barbara that is actually closer to my zip code than the Los Angeles stations that are considered my market area, but I don't get the full guide data for that station. I can change the zip code to a Santa Barbara zip code and I get guide data for that station, but not the Los Angeles stations. My understanding is that you can sometimes find a zip code in between that will carry guide data from two markets, but as far as I know, there is no map or other way of finding that out prior to purchase.

It looks like the Tivo guide is superior in this respect and is probably the right choice for anyone "between markets". In my case it really doesn't matter as I have two ABC stations so the 1 - 2 day guide the station itself broadcasts, which is what you get if Rovio is not providing the guide for that station, is sufficient.

If you only need OTA and not cable card, you can get the Roamio OTA for about $50 at Best Buy and then pay $15 a month for the guide data (no lifetime option with that particular device). The Roamio Basic that does come with a lifetime guide option will cost more than the DVR+, but I would consider a DVR without a good guide pretty crippled; you could only do timer-based recordings rather than name based for those stations without a guide.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The guide on the DVR+ is provided by Rovio and goes out 14 days. The guide is provided based on your zip code. In my case, I have an ABC affiliate in Santa Barbara that is actually closer to my zip code than the Los Angeles stations that are considered my market area, but I don't get the full guide data for that station. I can change the zip code to a Santa Barbara zip code and I get guide data for that station, but not the Los Angeles stations. My understanding is that you can sometimes find a zip code in between that will carry guide data from two markets, but as far as I know, there is no map or other way of finding that out prior to purchase.

It looks like the Tivo guide is superior in this respect and is probably the right choice for anyone "between markets". In my case it really doesn't matter as I have two ABC stations so the 1 - 2 day guide the station itself broadcasts, which is what you get if Rovio is not providing the guide for that station, is sufficient.

If you only need OTA and not cable card, you can get the Roamio OTA for about $50 at Best Buy and then pay $15 a month for the guide data (no lifetime option with that particular device). The Roamio Basic that does come with a lifetime guide option will cost more than the DVR+, but I would consider a DVR without a good guide pretty crippled; you could only do timer-based recordings rather than name based for those stations without a guide.
Thanks for the info! It sounds like, with the DVR+ I would just have to wait until the day, whatever program I want to record, shows in the guide, then set a season pass type recording. I could live with that. Am I wrong? The Tivo sounds like a better unit, and the OTA Roamio would suffice, but I don't like the $15 a month.
 

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Thanks for the info! It sounds like, with the DVR+ I would just have to wait until the day, whatever program I want to record, shows in the guide, then set a season pass type recording. I could live with that. Am I wrong? The Tivo sounds like a better unit, and the OTA Roamio would suffice, but I don't like the $15 a month.

The $15 a month for TIVO is a drawback but with access to Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu and many other online resources it might be worth it! The 1TB DVR+ is $400, with TIVO it will take you almost 2 years before the $15 a month makes up the difference between the $400 DVR+ and $50 TIVO for OTA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The $15 a month for TIVO is a drawback but with access to Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu and many other online resources it might be worth it! The 1TB DVR+ is $400, with TIVO it will take you almost 2 years before the $15 a month makes up the difference between the $400 DVR+ and $50 TIVO for OTA.
The DVR+ with out the internal hard drive, from CM, + 1 TB drive from Amazon, is $300. I have a Roku, I get all the streaming channels with that. I think people claim it's actually better to stream those channels with the Roku.

I saw that I could get a basic Roamio + lifetime, with a discount from ebay for ~$490. I admit, that is tempting.
 

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Thanks for the info! It sounds like, with the DVR+ I would just have to wait until the day, whatever program I want to record, shows in the guide, then set a season pass type recording. I could live with that. Am I wrong? The Tivo sounds like a better unit, and the OTA Roamio would suffice, but I don't like the $15 a month.
I haven't tried that. I am not sure it would work that way because the station provided guide data doesn't seem to appear until I tune to that station in the guide itself, then the info starts populating. Maybe someone who has used it more than I have will comment.

I do know that in the DVR+ owner's thread people say you just set a timer-based recording for every Wednesday at 8 PM, for example, rather than choosing a "season pass" kind of recording. It doesn't bother me with one station that is a duplicate of one with guide data, but I think if I had more than one station it would tip me toward the Tivo Roamio.

From the cost standpoint if you think the machine will last 4 or 5 years, then the basic Roamio with lifetime guide pays for itself. My concern is that the hardware won't keep up with the changes coming in the streaming space soon, and I'd really like to take advantage of the first system that seamlessly combines OTA, OTT, Internet streaming and my own home media without extra boxes and a very, very low WAF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I haven't tried that. I am not sure it would work that way because the station provided guide data doesn't seem to appear until I tune to that station in the guide itself, then the info starts populating. Maybe someone who has used it more than I have will comment.

I do know that in the DVR+ owner's thread people say you just set a timer-based recording for every Wednesday at 8 PM, for example, rather than choosing a "season pass" kind of recording. It doesn't bother me with one station that is a duplicate of one with guide data, but I think if I had more than one station it would tip me toward the Tivo Roamio.

From the cost standpoint if you think the machine will last 4 or 5 years, then the basic Roamio with lifetime guide pays for itself. My concern is that the hardware won't keep up with the changes coming in the streaming space soon, and I'd really like to take advantage of the first system that seamlessly combines OTA, OTT, Internet streaming and my own home media without extra boxes and a very, very low WAF.
Thank you! Doesn't sound like it would work the way I hoped.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I decided to go with a Tivo Roamio OTA. It does get guide data for all the channels that I receive, the ones in my DMA, from Philly and Baltimore.

So far, I am pleased with it. I like how it integrates online videos in the search. I found shows on Netflix and Amazon that I wouldn't have looked for, otherwise. I can listen to Pandora, and with the free version of Tivo desktop, I can listen to music from my computer.

Plex is coming, too. Very happy so far.
 

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I decided to go with a Tivo Roamio OTA. It does get guide data for all the channels that I receive, the ones in my DMA, from Philly and Baltimore.

So far, I am pleased with it. I like how it integrates online videos in the search. I found shows on Netflix and Amazon that I wouldn't have looked for, otherwise. I can listen to Pandora, and with the free version of Tivo desktop, I can listen to music from my computer.

Plex is coming, too. Very happy so far.
You might have been better off with the Tivo Roamio Base which has ATSC tuners (OTA) and is elegible for lifetime, it you want to pay upfront lumps sum instead of perpetual monthly fees for the OTA unit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
You might have been better off with the Tivo Roamio Base which has ATSC tuners (OTA) and is elegible for lifetime, it you want to pay upfront lumps sum instead of perpetual monthly fees for the OTA unit.
Yes, I had a hard time deciding what I wanted to do. I am most concerned with the cost now, so I went with the cheapest option to get started. If, after a year I am still liking the TiVo, I can buy the Base Roamio and only be out the $50 I paid. I was paying $113 a month for Dish, $15 is a drop in the bucket.
 

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Mobile broadband...

I hope it's ok if I post my questions in here.

Is it possible to use mobile broadband for the guide data on either the TiVo Roamio OTA or the Channel Master DVR+? If so does anyone know how much data either would use to do this?

Also, I read in the main DVR+ thread that the tuners are not as good as the previous PAL tuners. This might be a deal breaker, we get 11 channels and more if we move the antenna (plus all the subs) with the PAL but get 3 (plus subs) with just the TV tuner. How does the Roamio tuner compare to the DVR+ or the PAL?

Thanks.
 

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I hope it's ok if I post my questions in here.

Is it possible to use mobile broadband for the guide data on either the TiVo Roamio OTA or the Channel Master DVR+? If so does anyone know how much data either would use to do this?

Also, I read in the main DVR+ thread that the tuners are not as good as the previous PAL tuners. This might be a deal breaker, we get 11 channels and more if we move the antenna (plus all the subs) with the PAL but get 3 (plus subs) with just the TV tuner. How does the Roamio tuner compare to the DVR+ or the PAL?

Thanks.
I'm not sure if this is the right answer. The guide data on a TiVo starts with Tribune Media Services, the same site that supplies zap2it.com. I find zap2it.com is 99% accurate, TiVo is about 95%. The actual TiVo "To Do List", its "One Pass List" and its guide can be accessed on the TiVo.com web site. I have no idea about the data needed. I feel the tuner on the Roamio is good, but I can not be used as a source since I'm cable. It is better than the last version, the Premiere.

The DVR+ data is supplied by Rovi. http://www.rovicorp.com/
 

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I hope it's ok if I post my questions in here.

Is it possible to use mobile broadband for the guide data on either the TiVo Roamio OTA or the Channel Master DVR+? If so does anyone know how much data either would use to do this?
I can't say for sure but it can't use much. I used dial up service for my Tivo(probably 50K max) up to a couple months ago and it worked just fine. Guide updates generally only took a couple minutes up to 5 minutes max,and again this is at 50k dial-up speeds. System updates may take more but again if it worked with dial-up it's sure to work better with mobile broadband. What I don't know, but doubt, is if hooking a Tivo to high speed internet incurs more data downloads or things like commercials or promos although I think with my dial-up connection those came OTA recorded automatically overnight.
 

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Is it possible to use mobile broadband for the guide data on either the TiVo Roamio OTA or the Channel Master DVR+? If so does anyone know how much data either would use to do this?
As long as the TiVo doesn't have to go through any login procedure to access the Internet and can connect as if it were talking to a router it shouldn't care. TiVo's like to be connected all the time because although they download the guide data once daily, they phone home frequently to touch base with the mother ship. If you use their on-line features they will obviously go on-line more frequently. If you need to conserve on data usage and don't care to use on-line features, you could generally leave the TiVo disconnected from the Internet and establish a connection once daily and force a guide update. The guide is 2 weeks. If data caps are real tight, you can leave it disconnected for a longer period before forcing an update -- you could easily do a weekly connect/update without losing the DVR functionality. You would just reduce yourself to a 1 week guide and also run the risk of not having the latest schedule changes that might impact your recordings.
 

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I admit I don't have a smart phone with WiFi. I have helped friends get their phones to use their router. I am not sure how the TiVo would behave if it didn't get the same IP address when trying to access the internet, but I have never seen a smart phone used as a hot spot. I'll have to try that. That's when data caps set by the phone provider would be important. My internet data cap is 250GB, and I seldom use 10% of that during any month. Even with several passive devices looking for updates I doubt if that class of usage ever gets close to a GB. But, I have no way to measure it. My router isn't that specific.
 

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I'm not sure if this is the right answer. The guide data on a TiVo starts with Tribune Media Services, the same site that supplies zap2it.com. I find zap2it.com is 99% accurate, TiVo is about 95%. The actual TiVo "To Do List", its "One Pass List" and its guide can be accessed on the TiVo.com web site. I have no idea about the data needed. I feel the tuner on the Roamio is good, but I can not be used as a source since I'm cable. It is better than the last version, the Premiere.

The DVR+ data is supplied by Rovi. http://www.rovicorp.com/
Thanks, JoeKustra.


I can't say for sure but it can't use much. I used dial up service for my Tivo(probably 50K max) up to a couple months ago and it worked just fine. Guide updates generally only took a couple minutes up to 5 minutes max,and again this is at 50k dial-up speeds. System updates may take more but again if it worked with dial-up it's sure to work better with mobile broadband. What I don't know, but doubt, is if hooking a Tivo to high speed internet incurs more data downloads or things like commercials or promos although I think with my dial-up connection those came OTA recorded automatically overnight.
Commercials and Promos? Like Hulu-esque advertisments? Or are you talking something completely different. I've never had TiVo or seen one so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Hmmm... I guess more research is needed on my part.

As long as the TiVo doesn't have to go through any login procedure to access the Internet and can connect as if it were talking to a router it shouldn't care. TiVo's like to be connected all the time because although they download the guide data once daily, they phone home frequently to touch base with the mother ship. If you use their on-line features they will obviously go on-line more frequently. If you need to conserve on data usage and don't care to use on-line features, you could generally leave the TiVo disconnected from the Internet and establish a connection once daily and force a guide update. The guide is 2 weeks. If data caps are real tight, you can leave it disconnected for a longer period before forcing an update -- you could easily do a weekly connect/update without losing the DVR functionality. You would just reduce yourself to a 1 week guide and also run the risk of not having the latest schedule changes that might impact your recordings.
Yeah definitely would be nice to use the streaming content but I totally realize it's a very expensive thing to do with mobile broadband so we'd definitely just be using the internet strictly for the DVR and guide functionality.

That's interesting to know the TiVo doesn't have to maintain a constant connection to the internet and that it needs only once a day or once a week updates. I had no idea. I thought to have DVR functionality you MUST be connected to the internet. We currently get our guide data on the PAL daily (sometimes less than 8-hours at a time) so anything more than that is a welcome bonus plus there are plenty of times it's not accurate. I imagine a daily update from TiVo is worlds better than station provided data that is sometimes not more than a program title.

I'll definitely be looking into TiVo a bit more, I guess I've been misinformed all these years about how much the internet was really necessary and never considered TiVo as a viable option because of a lack of home internet. I did contact TiVo directly on the issue and they only could say using mobile broadband was untested and therefore not recommended. My parents will be the primary users of the TiVo and my dad doesn't see use for the internet beyond shopping, researching and email all of which he does with 200Mb monthly of highspeed broadband and there after unlimited 128K that came with the purchase of his laptop and my mother goes to the library. With the recent deals on Roamio OTA I was interested in finding out out more. I figured with mobile broadband as little as $15 for 60 days I could set them up with four tuners, a larger hard drive and a more reliable guide and maybe they wouldn't curse the DVR as much as they currently do and I could have my PAL back.

Anyway, thank you all for your replies, I appreciate them. I'm off to the TiVo Roamio thread to learn more.

I'm still interested to know about the CM DVR+ and if anyone else has actually successfully used mobile broadband for either DVR so I'll check back here again.

ETA:

I admit I don't have a smart phone with WiFi. I have helped friends get their phones to use their router. I am not sure how the TiVo would behave if it didn't get the same IP address when trying to access the internet, but I have never seen a smart phone used as a hot spot. I'll have to try that. That's when data caps set by the phone provider would be important. My internet data cap is 250GB, and I seldom use 10% of that during any month. Even with several passive devices looking for updates I doubt if that class of usage ever gets close to a GB. But, I have no way to measure it. My router isn't that specific.
I actually don't have smart phone, I have a dumb phone courtesy of an ages old family plan from the beginning of family plans. I'd just go out and buy a Straight Talk mobile broadband hotspot and pick up a $15 card that is good for 1GB over 60 days.

I'd be interested in knowing the results of your experiment even if you can't measure the amount of data usage.

As for a constantly changing IP address, IICRC back in the day AOL users IP addresses changed, am I wrong to think AOL could have been used with TiVo? Though I guess you had to sign in with a username and password so maybe not. Hmmm.
 

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I admit I don't have a smart phone with WiFi. I have helped friends get their phones to use their router. I am not sure how the TiVo would behave if it didn't get the same IP address when trying to access the internet, but I have never seen a smart phone used as a hot spot..
Mobile broadband isn't just from smart phone hot spots, don't forget about a dedicated WiFi hotspot. Unless the Tivo does something radically different when connected to HS internet as it does when connected to dial-up, my guess is were talking about very low MBs or even KBs for guide updates. As mobile internet records data down the MB if someone used such a connection it would be relatively easy to turn everything else that might access the data except the hotspot, record your total data usage to date, force an update(preferably on a Tivo that hadn't had a update in a day or two) then turn off the hotspot and a couple hours later(mobile internet always says it can take up to 2 hours to report data usage) record the total data usage. Again I'd really expect things to be in the .xMB
If I wasn't already tied(have expensive phones) to a cell phone provider that charged quite a bit extra for a mobile hotspot I'd seriously think of getting my internet that way. WalMart has a 4 family cell phone plan that include a free WiFi hotspot and 12Gb to share between them for $110, too bad the best Galaxy phone you can get is the many year old SIII which wouldn't fly in my household.
 

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Commercials and Promos? Like Hulu-esque advertisments? Or are you talking something completely different. I've never had TiVo or seen one so I'm not sure what you mean by that. Hmmm... I guess more research is needed on my part.
On the bottom line of your recordings list they generally have something you can click on, sometimes its like a preview of some program or another, I basically ignore it all the time and I believe when it's like a commercial that Tivo records it via the tuner late at night when you'd probably not be recording something else. What I don't know is if you have HS internet if it still records it via a TV channel or if it somehow records it over your internet connection, I'm sure someone else will know. Tivo also has a popup whenever you PAUSE, you can easily dismiss it by pushing the down arrow key and it will stay away until you change programs. Again IMO very unobtrusive but it is there. AFAIK Tivo never inserts ads in the actual program although during some program commercials(if you watch them or even if you scan them) you might see a OSD to push "thumbs up" to record that program, again I hardly see it since I always scan at the fastest speed and it's only on my screen for a second or so.

As for a constantly changing IP address, IICRC back in the day AOL users IP addresses changed, am I wrong to think AOL could have been used with TiVo? Though I guess you had to sign in with a username and password so maybe not. Hmmm.
Not sure why Tivo would need AOL as to get it's guide via a phone line it calls various dedicated Tivo numbers all over the country. When I had dial-up I had many numbers to chose from to have Tivo call, all long distance free. Not sure how it would work if one were in the sticks and didn't have a local number for Tivo to call, maybe they had a 1-800 number in that case??

It's very easy to force a guide update with a Tivo, only takes a few button pushes and even with a limited internet connection I'd probably update my guide at least every other day, in case programming changed at the last minute.
 
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