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Sigh. Heritage this. Headache that. You might as well think Dynaudio makes only one speaker these days. Talk about monotone.
 

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The S40 is magnificent when setup just perfect but if you’re off axis even a little it falls apart quickly. Are you suggesting a better amplifier corrects that issue, I didn’t think so. Danny is suggesting his modification to the crossover can help and I’m willing to put up my speakers for testing, other than words what are you willing to put up?
Based on the video he posted, it looked to me like he made the horizontal off-axis performance worse. The on-axis measurement and vertical off-axis looked flatter, but not the horizontal off-axis. So if you're hoping to improve off-axis performance, it's not obvious his crossover will do that.

What toe-in do you use?

I'm still curious about the woofer's measured response and why that is worse than the C1 (which is where the upgraded driver came from). Wonder what tradeoffs Dynaudio made in the design.
AFAIK, nobody has posted the woofer-only response of the C1. At least not that I recall seeing. The overall response of the C1 has been measured by various people and it's impressively flat. But you can't tell how much of that is due to the woofer, enclosure, and crossover. Danny blames it on the driver, but he's not measuring the bare driver. It's possible that the 1.1 KHz peak Danny highlighted is due to a standing wave that just isn't present at the same frequency in the C1 cabinet because the cabinet shape, dimensions, and damping are different. It's also possible there are compensations made in the C1 crossover that aren't made in the S40 crossover due to cost.
 
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AFAIK, nobody has posted the woofer-only response of the C1. At least not that I recall seeing. The overall response of the C1 has been measured by various people and it's impressively flat. But you can't tell how much of that is due to the woofer, enclosure, and crossover. Danny blames it on the driver, but he's not measuring the bare driver. It's possible that the 1.1 KHz peak Danny highlighted is due to a standing wave that just isn't present at the same frequency in the C1 cabinet because the cabinet shape, dimensions, and damping are different. It's also possible there are compensations made in the C1 crossover that aren't made in the S40 crossover due to cost.
He claims to have measured the bare driver, and then posted a graph. That was how he convinced his viewers that the mid driver in the S40 are garbage as well.

It looks like he found 6 dummies so far. For anyone buying used S40's in the future, I'd remove the mid bass driver and make sure they are original as soon as they enter your home.


3120154
 

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View attachment 3120154
[/QUOTE[/QUOTE]
He claims to have measured the bare driver, and then posted a graph. That was how he convinced his viewers that the mid driver in the S40 are garbage as well.

It looks like he found 6 dummies so far. For anyone buying used S40's in the future, I'd remove the mid bass driver and make sure they are original as soon as they enter your home.


View attachment 3120154
Confirmation bias in relation to Danny's comment re his six sales.
 

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Based on the video he posted, it looked to me like he made the horizontal off-axis performance worse. The on-axis measurement and vertical off-axis looked flatter, but not the horizontal off-axis. So if you're hoping to improve off-axis performance, it's not obvious his crossover will do that.

What toe-in do you use?



AFAIK, nobody has posted the woofer-only response of the C1. At least not that I recall seeing. The overall response of the C1 has been measured by various people and it's impressively flat. But you can't tell how much of that is due to the woofer, enclosure, and crossover. Danny blames it on the driver, but he's not measuring the bare driver. It's possible that the 1.1 KHz peak Danny highlighted is due to a standing wave that just isn't present at the same frequency in the C1 cabinet because the cabinet shape, dimensions, and damping are different. It's also possible there are compensations made in the C1 crossover that aren't made in the S40 crossover due to cost.
Danny has all the moves of a good street magician....
 

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He claims to have measured the bare driver, and then posted a graph. That was how he convinced his viewers that the mid driver in the S40 are garbage as well.

It looks like he found 6 dummies so far. For anyone buying used S40's in the future, I'd remove the mid bass driver and make sure they are original as soon as they enter your home.


View attachment 3120154
Never a fan of upgrading any decent speaker, especially if they are fantastic speakers, to begin with...
 

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Based on the video he posted, it looked to me like he made the horizontal off-axis performance worse. The on-axis measurement and vertical off-axis looked flatter, but not the horizontal off-axis. So if you're hoping to improve off-axis performance, it's not obvious his crossover will do that.

What toe-in do you use?
I toe them in so they point just behind my head.

I have wondered if one of my speakers has a factory defect in one of the tweeters itself. I have thought about taking them to my local dealer just for a listen to see if they think there is something “off” about my pair.
 

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Pete: Cool to see you're reviewing them, the funny thing I thought there were zero issues with the S40's and they are "excellent speaker" and look great in both finishes, you can get nit-picky about how they measure, too me is how do they sound in the room you have. Right now I am comparing the Confidence 20 with the newly repaired Special 25's both excellent but my ears are liking the Confidence 20's if I could get the Special 25 finished in Mocca I might keep them. (Aaron) if you're reading this! ;)
Here my review of the Heritage Special:

Dynaudio Heritage Special Speaker Review

I almost had to donate my left nut for the Hegel.. but the synergy is good. This Hegel deserve a review of it's own and I feel it's a little sweeter than the older models.
And yes, the walnut feels like furniture..
 

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Hi Pete, didn't you own the Rotel Michi at same point, at least somewhere last year? Looking forward of course to your first review for the Heritage!

Some hilarious comments on the previous page, lol!
I regret getting rid of that... I was just thinking of it when I was opening the HS.. imagine 500W sweet watts powering this baby...
 

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No one has ever stated the S40 was a perfect speaker, or couldn't be improved. Don't put words in people's mouths to promote an agenda that doesn't exist. The argument is that his specific "upgrades" would absolutely introduce other issues. Phase issues being one of them (the main one IMO). The largest change he made was the change in crossover point and slope. If you understood crossover design, you would realize that can be done extremely cheap....
Thank you for that and you are correct I don’t understand crossover design, I’m still trying to learn.

I will take the advice given here (although I don’t completely agree but I’m willing to be wrong) and see if I can find a proper amplifier to test with the S40’s. Someone offered to let me use their Dolby Labs amplifier but I don’t think my Marantz could properly pre amp it.
 

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Thank you for that and you are correct I don’t understand crossover design, I’m still trying to learn.

I will take the advice given here (although I don’t completely agree but I’m willing to be wrong) and see if I can find a proper amplifier to test with the S40’s. Someone offered to let me use their Dolby Labs amplifier but I don’t think my Marantz could properly pre amp it.
I personally think simply using your ave as a preamp and a separate amp isn’t going to yield huge results. At least it didn’t in my experience.

I started out with 1.3MK II’s and an integra receiver. I then went to a bryston amp, using the integra as a preamp. It made a difference but I heard a lot more once I switched to a pre-amp that was more audio specific. Especially one that has a good analog bypass section so you mainly only using it as a volume control.

I actually have an Audio Refinement pre2 dsp which is a surround sound decoder that is known to have a very good audio section. It also has an excellent analog bypass.

something like this in combination with a power amp will give you an idea of potential audio performance. Heck you could pick up a Schiit Saga and Vidar for about $1k and use them for a few months and resale would allow you to pretty much break even. Investment yes but little to no risk.

Other options as well but that combo is a great entry point that is well known for doing things pretty damn good for that money. I would 100% do that before opening up and tweaking a speaker.
 

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Here my review of the Heritage Special:

Dynaudio Heritage Special Speaker Review

I almost had to donate my left nut for the Hegel.. but the synergy is good. This Hegel deserve a review of it's own and I feel it's a little sweeter than the older models.
And yes, the walnut feels like furniture..
nice review! thanks and I couldn’t find anything to really disagree in your findings.
Source and amp pairing seems more critical than other Dynaudio speakers.
It even seems to me that warming up amp is noticeable and things get smoother after that.
About the Hegel, i auditioned the HS with same 390, and it impressed me a lot.
Well i did buy they speaker after listening.

Maybe it’s a better match than my current Moon pre - power combo, and seems to bring some more sparkle in the tweeter which now i miss a bit compared to auditioning.

I really need to audition that Hegel at home some day.

Compare to s40. While i think is a good speaker ( just as it is) coming from Confidence C1, i kept struggling with loosing that little additional detail, control, power and resolution.
Unfortunately these seemingly small improval steps are expensive to get.
 

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Is this true?

1. There is a difference between 1st order electrical slopes and 1st order acoustic slopes. Achieving 1st order acoustic slopes requires compensation for the drivers' roll-offs. True first order acoustic slopes require complicated crossovers and AFAIK are only used by designers who are trying to make time & phase coherent speakers e.g. Richard Vandersteen and Jim Thiel. A time and phase coherent loudspeaker will have a step response that looks like a single triangle. Dynaudio does not design for 1st order acoustic slopes.

2. I don't think you can determine crossover order by looking at the step response. It will show you driver polarity, which may rule out some crossover topologies. For example, if you see tweeter and midrange in opposite polarity, it's very likely to be a 2nd order crossover because inverting polarity compensates for the 180 deg. electrical phase shift. The other thing you can see in the step response is the time delay between the peaks from the different drivers. By examining that delay and the impedance magnitude and phase response, a knowledgeable person could make an educated guess about the crossover but it wouldn't be definitive.

3. Two-ways with 4th order electrical crossovers are not typical. 4th order electrical crossovers require more components, suffer more insertion loss, and have more delay. They are common between woofers and subwoofers, but not so common between tweeters and mid-woofers. They may be needed in designs that use a crossover frequency close to the resonance of one of the drivers, but Dynaudio doesn't usually do that. And all you have to do is look at a picture of the Special 40 crossover to know it's not 4th order.
 

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I personally think simply using your ave as a preamp and a separate amp isn’t going to yield huge results. At least it didn’t in my experience.
I agree, I’m pretty sure my AVR’s preamp falls far short of 4vrms. From what I understand adding a good amplifier can cause your preamp to clip. I may see if my local dealer has an integrated I can test, I think they have a few of the last gen Classe’s that were demos. I think that would be enough to let me know if “better” power may address some of my concerns.
 
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