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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I haven't kept up on current bugs of the Panny E500s so this topic might have been answered - mea culpa.


I archived approx. 50 programs to DVD that I needed to divide to get onto the DVD - my sister recorded the programs a while back without knowing about DVD space limits, etc. so I had 8 hour programs in SP and XP.


Now that I've archived them all, I don't plan to use divide title in the future. However, the hard drive space has reduced a little (a lot in EP mode - 60 hours' worth is lost now).


My Question - I cannot reformat the drive - I have 400 new programs on it yet to archive. Will the hard drive space CONTINUE to decrease - even if I DO NOT use any editing features?


I REALLY need to know this - anyone - help.


Thanks in advance!


Andie
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andi36
My Question - I cannot reformat the drive - I have 400 new programs on it yet to archive. Will the hard drive space CONTINUE to decrease - even if I DO NOT use any editing features?


I REALLY need to know this - anyone - help.
I wouldn't be worrying about decreasing HDD space. Instead, I'd be working around the clock offloading those programs. There have been a significant volume of threads (especially with Panasonic units) associated with the importance of HDD housekeeping to avoid crashes and data loss-especially if you do a lot of editing (yes, title divides count as editing).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andi36
I haven't kept up on current bugs of the Panny E500s so this topic might have been answered - mea culpa.


I archived approx. 50 programs to DVD that I needed to divide to get onto the DVD - my sister recorded the programs a while back without knowing about DVD space limits, etc. so I had 8 hour programs in SP and XP.


Now that I've archived them all, I don't plan to use divide title in the future. However, the hard drive space has reduced a little (a lot in EP mode - 60 hours' worth is lost now).


My Question - I cannot reformat the drive - I have 400 new programs on it yet to archive. Will the hard drive space CONTINUE to decrease - even if I DO NOT use any editing features?


I REALLY need to know this - anyone - help.


Thanks in advance!


Andie
How do you know that your HDD has been reduced in space? DId you add up all the time on the HDD and come up with less than, say 89 hours in XP mode? 60 hours in EP would be 10 hours in XP, about a 11% reduction.


Did you delete the programs that you dubbed to DVD?


I can't imagine how using divide title would decrease your HDD space if you deleted the titles after dubbing to DVD. In any case, I doubt whether this will reoccur if you don't divide titles in the future.


The biggest problems I recall Panasonic HDD recorders have is that after using "shorten segment" extremely often the HDD becomes fragmented and needs to be reformatted.


I have not noticed any reduction in HDD space on my E-500, but I haven't used divide title either. I will have to think about this. Maybe a search of this forum will enlighten.


Anyone else know of this problem?


RG
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffWld
I wouldn't be worrying about decreasing HDD space. Instead, I'd be working around the clock offloading those programs. There have been a significant volume of threads (especially with Panasonic units) associated with the importance of HDD housekeeping to avoid crashes and data loss-especially if you do a lot of editing (yes, title divides count as editing).
I don't believe this is not entirely true. The problem comes from increased fragmentation of the HDD. This can be caused by "shorten" and maybe by "erase chapter". I don't think that editing such as "divide chapters", "create playlists" causes fragmentation, especially if the titles are deleted after they are dubbed to DVD.


But I do agree that you should dub those programs to DVD as soon as you can. Any HDD can fail (even those on a PC) and storage on the HDD should be considered temporary.


RG
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgazzara
I don't believe this is not entirely true. The problem comes from increased fragmentation of the HDD. This can be caused by "shorten" and maybe by "erase chapter". I don't think that editing such as "divide chapters", "create playlists" causes fragmentation, especially if the titles are deleted after they are dubbed to DVD.
I'm not as confident. If you consider what a title divide does, it not only has to revise the TOC (in this case hundreds of times), but it also divides recordings/files that are not going to have been sequentially written to the HDD in the first place.


I recall various posters experiencing HDD crashes while using the divide function. I know that my E-80 and E-100 struggle more on a title divide than they do on a shorten segment. In addition, the OP didn't indicate that they had actually erased any titles, hence my caution.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffWld
I'm not as confident. If you consider what a title divide does, it not only has to revise the TOC (in this case hundreds of times), but it also divides recordings/files that are not going to have been sequentially written to the HDD in the first place.


I recall various posters experiencing HDD crashes while using the divide function. I know that my E-80 and E-100 struggle more on a title divide than they do on a shorten segment. In addition, the OP didn't indicate that they had actually erased any titles, hence my caution.
Jeff,


I agree. Title divide, shorten and erase chapter can be a problem. I was referring to chapter divide and create playlist as editing processes that should not create problems.


In all, the OP should perform good HDD maintenance and erase titles after dubbing, and get all those titles off the HDD as soon as possible.


RG
 

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rgazzara, you are correct: placing chapter marks and creating/editing playlists do not appear to have any effect on the hard drive, at least, there have been no reports of it. On the other hand, SOME people, not all by any means, have reported that editing of titles, especially divide title and shorten segment, can have an effect on the hard drive.


If you are seeing deleted space not being completely added back to the free space on your hard drive, then I conclude that you have damaged link-lists on your hard drive allocation tables. I know it's very difficult with 400 programs on the hard drive, but if you want to keep them, I'd be dubbing them to -RAMs as quickly as possible.


It's not just simply a matter of hard drive space not being available, it is a matter of the the hard drive suddenly becoming unusable! I have had this happen to me. All my programs (titles) suddenly disappeared. There was no way to access them. All I could do was reformat the hard drive (which resets all the pointers) and make sure I do all my editing using playlists from then on, and the problem has not resurfaced since I made that change.


I wish I could give you better news, but if you are seeing file system errors, then you already have corrupted entries, which may or may not cause a catastrophic failure of the Panasonic proprietary fie system (not robust at all). I'd offload everything and reformat ASAP, but then again, I'm not much of a gambler.


Sorry.
 

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Hi Church AV Guy,


Thanks for the advice, but I think that you meant to address this to the OP. ;)


Good advice though.


RG
 

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Of course you are correct. The first paragraph was to you , the rest was for the original poster, as you said.


Since file system error (NOT hard drive failure) happened to me, and I was bummed that I lost a half dozen titles, I can only imagine how I would feel losing hundreds of titles. Andi36, take steps. If you don't there is no guarantee that you won't lose data, but is taking that risk worth it?


As always, my advice can be completely ignore if you choose. Others have not seen catastrophic problems and so far, there is insufficient data to determine why some do and some don't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies. I have since found out about the fragmentation problem when using divide title. So... I will be offloading my programs.


To answer an earlier question, yes, I deleted the programs after dubbing them to DVD but the free space wasn't released. And, how do I know it wasn't released? The unit shows 60 hours free on EP however, I can't record anything to the hard drive. I erased additional programs and freed more space and I CAN record on that space, i.e., that space was released. It seems the divide title feature chewed up 60 hours that won't be freed until I can reformat.


Another question, though and forgive me for my ignorance - I never got into editing DVD files so this problem is somewhat new. If I record to DVD - straight to DVD - this shouldn't make the hard drive situation worse. In other words, I want to record things during the day - straight onto DVD until I offload the rest of my programs and reformat. Will this make the hard drive more unstable?? Also, I will be doing the "high speed dub dance" only in the evenings - for the next 5 days - will THIS (dubbing) make the hard drive more unstable. I am paranoid about a crash after reading this responses.


Thanks in advance for the answers!


-Andi
 

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If you record directly to the DVD, like to a DVD-RAM, it has no effect on the hard drive and should therefore have no effect on the hard drive issue. You can edit the content of a RAM disk the same as if that content were on your hard drive, and that editing will not effect your hard disk or its contents.


Don't be paranoid, just be aware.


Oh, and it's not a hard drive crash, it is a file system failure. You can blame the manufacturer for coming up with a file system that is GREAT for DVD format video, but still has more than a few bugs in it.
 

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There is another issue to consider. The E500 can transcode programs to MPEG4 SIMULTANEOUSLY while dubbing from RAM to the HDD. I occasionally inadvertently hit mpeg4 encode during dubbing and I have a large number of random mpeg4 files that duplicate some of the mpeg2 files that I have on HDD. Use the menu to navigate to the mpeg4 view to see what you have there to see if you have a cache of MPEG4 programs eating up HDD space. These mpeg4 programs don't eat up a lot of file space individually, but you can inadvertently build up quite a collection of them. They are not viewable via the normal direct navigator and unless you go intentially look for them you would never know they were there.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by vferrari
There is another issue to consider. The E500 can transcode programs to MPEG4 SIMULTANEOUSLY while dubbing from RAM to the HDD. I occasionally inadvertently hit mpeg4 encode during dubbing and I have a large number of random mpeg4 files that duplicate some of the mpeg2 files that I have on HDD. Use the menu to navigate to the mpeg4 view to see what you have there to see if you have a cache of MPEG4 programs eating up HDD space. These mpeg4 programs don't eat up a lot of file space individually, but you can inadvertently build up quite a collection of them. They are not viewable via the normal direct navigator and unless you go intentially look for them you would never know they were there.
That's right, I forgot about the MPEG4 recording capabilities on the E-500. When I first started using it I set it up to simultaneously record all my titles as MPEG4 files. Seemed like a cool thing to do...until I looked at the recordings...yecch!! :eek: (I did that because the MPEG4 files can be played over a network on a PC.)


So vferrari might be correct. The OP may have set the MPEG4 record (or dub) by mistake. That would eat up some of the HDD space. Good thinking.


RG
 
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