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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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The guy's not a bandit. He's been in the business for 25 years, and has done this exact thing I want for years. He said he first started out with Goo Screen, but wasn't satisfied with them.
Most are not.......

Benjamin Moore is good quality paint, better than PPG?
BM is good......and the PPG Diamond is also an excellent Acrylic Latex....with a higher proportion of Acrylic. Most Primer / Paints fall squarely into that description, and before they were called "Primer / Paints" they were more commonly known as "Interior Water-Based Enamel" Lost of vetting and tests has been done using the Diamond (...back when it was labeled "Glidden" and it was adjudged the most Neutral White with the highest Gain in a Matte White of everyone else. So it got my vote, and still has it as the same labeled PPG Product.


I use the Ultra White PPG Diamond as the undercoating for all my SF / BF screens.


Guy said he'd do it for $50 including paints. How can I complain about that? All he needs is Gennex codes. He's doing this as a favor from a friend of mine.
Yeah....hard to beat that price-wise. But using anything else but what is suggested by the many past successes (w/ known values and performance) and YRMVW


He can also use a paint chip. So if you don't know the Gennex code system, no biggie. I guess spending $4 for a sample isn't terrible.
Nope...it's a Custom Color...but I have had many members use it for both Screen Base w.High Lumen PJs, and as a great Dark Grey for a Ceiling Color. Much better looking than Black.


Those look like Behr color codes. So it seems Home Depot has a Behr color machine that it uses for their PPG color matching. Your can says PPG. I just called up Home Depot, and the paint person said the ppg-53-120 is the PPG color, and those amounts are for Behr.

So Home Depot has to convert their PPG brand paints to Behr. They're only able to match a PPG to Behr, because they have a licensing agreement with them. Other dealers like for Sherman Williams, or in my case Benjamin Moore, can't do that.

Yes....HD can take what you provide them and Tint any Gallon whose contents allow for the amount of Tint needed to obtain the level of Grey. Such Base paints as Deep Base have a bit under a Gallon to provide Tint space. The Darker the tint the deeper the Base must be Your Gallon needs a bit of the contents removed. That would be about 117 oz of paint to 11 oz. of the Tints.
 

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Nope...it's a Custom Color...but I have had many members use it for both Screen Base w.High Lumen PJs, and as a great Dark Grey for a Ceiling Color. Much better looking than Black.
I looked carefully at the label. If I'm not mistaken the can you posted is PPG Diamond, not a tint for PPG Metallic tones?

That means what you suggest is using untinted PPG Metallic tones, with that custom color in the non-metallic PPG Diamond?

According to Ftoast, using an untinted metallic changes the ratio? Could I tint both the metallic tones, and PPG Diamond to your custom color to keep a 3:1 ratio metallic to diamond without going under 1.0 gain?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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I looked carefully at the label. If I'm not mistaken the can you posted is PPG Diamond, not a tint for PPG Metallic tones?

The Can of Base White is PPG Diamond................the Color Tint is a Custom derived Color Match w/additional Tints added to deepen the Grey shade and bring it as close tonutrality as possible.


That means what you suggest is using untinted PPG Metallic tones, with that custom color in the non-metallic PPG Diamond?
Yes...and / or add a bit of the PPG Diamond untinted.....if needed to boost gain without increasing "Speck-ularity"


According to Ftoast, using an untinted metallic changes the ratio? Could I tint both the metallic tones, and PPG Diamond to your custom color to keep a 3:1 ratio metallic to diamond without going under 1.0 gain?

If you use a Tinted Diamond Base with the PPG-Metallic Tones, I would start with 3:1


You can always either go up or down in ratio by adding either 1 additional part of Metallic or the Tinted Base.
 

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@MississippiMan
The Can of Base White is PPG Diamond................the Color Tint is a Custom derived Color Match w/additional Tints added to deepen the Grey shade and bring it as close tonutrality as possible.


That means what you suggest is using untinted PPG Metallic tones, with that custom color in the non-metallic PPG Diamond?
Yes...and / or add a bit of the PPG Diamond untinted.....if needed to boost gain without increasing "Speck-ularity"





If you use a Tinted Diamond Base with the PPG-Metallic Tones, I would start with 3:1


You can always either go up or down in ratio by adding either 1 additional part of Metallic or the Tinted Base.
Ok I'll do that. On Monday I plan on getting the paint, since it's the 4th and all tomorrow.

The projector came early. The delivery estimate was for Monday.

I'll post some pics of what it looks like for before with the bumpy wall.

Then once I get the supplies, I'll post some prep, and finally the after.

Thanks for all the suggestions Maurice.

All I have to say so far is the projector is way smaller than my first projector, an 8" CRT. This one is around the size of a VCR, while the the CRT was the size of a portable AC unit.
 

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I did a sample with a slightly different folkart-mix which was suggested by MM in this post:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-...l-silver-fire-v-2-thread-94.html#post59698518:
30% GunMetal-- 43 Ounces
20% Pearl-------- 1 Quart
25% Poly -------- 1 Quart
25% Water ( start with 24 ounces and add until paint flows freely off the mixer Wand...)

On the sample the brightness highly depends on the viewing angle. Is this normal?

I have attached some photos of the sample which is placed in front of a normal white screen.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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That is the darkness of the Gun Metal and what appears to be the result of an increased amount of Metallic.

All I can say at this juncture is that when asked, I try to help make a dark mix like Folk Art GM retain or improve dynamics. Offshoot considerations such a viewing cone limitations are simply things that go hand in glove with those kinda Angular Reflective mix conversions. Always...somehow...a balance must be struck.

I have no such issues with the darker versions of Silver Fire / Black Flame.....up to some pretty dark Grey variations too...unless I would also go too far in upping Metallic ratios. Which I have a few times after being asked. And the introduction of angular, and even retro reflection properties always followed suit.


To that effect I would suggest reversing the Gun Metal / Pearl ratios.

One thing....I'm certain your projector is not mounted at or just below the top of those panels. Try to see if you can place the sample at the top-dead center.
 

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Hi to all ,

Just a warning to anyone who is considering this mix.

Make sure the the material that you are planning on spraying onto is suitable or i have messed up somewhere in the process of either mixing or spraying.

I seem to have actually ruined my screen (was white) and made it grey yes, but with a lot of textures.
To the point that it seems like an old tv from the 80's with a lot of noise. Totally unusable in bright content and only suitable for dark content .

Attached some screenshots in what was considered initially an OK result after painting .

Thanks ,
Vasilis
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Hi to all ,

Just a warning to anyone who is considering this mix.

Make sure the the material that you are planning on spraying onto is suitable or i have messed up somewhere in the process of either mixing or spraying.

I seem to have actually ruined my screen (was white) and made it grey yes, but with a lot of textures.
To the point that it seems like an old tv from the 80's with a lot of noise. Totally unusable in bright content and only suitable for dark content .

Attached some screenshots in what was considered initially an OK result after painting .

Thanks ,
Vasilis

Hmmmm...


From what I can see, if the issue was actually Texture, the screen would feel a pebbly grained as a Football to the touch.

Instead, it looks like a unfinished or incorrectly done Paint job. Only a ridiculous amount of Metallic in a mix would create such artifacts if the Spraying went on too heavily AND a preponderance of Metallic content was used. Then absolutely a "Perfect Storm" of Graininess would occur because any noticeable amount of surface texture is always greatly enhanced by the presence of Silver Metallic and a darker Grey base. This is due to the extremely high Contrast boosting...the observance of the shadows that any raised "bumps" will create.

Paint applied too heavily so that the surface has a sheen due to too many Mica particles being Flat to the surface is another possibility...in and of itself or combined with other factors.



An entirely related issue is that when you are considering a truly dark grey screen and still try to retain Gain by introducing Metallic content, you absolutely need the balance that using the correct amounts combined with exacting spray technique affords.


The latter is what I seem to be seeing....but you must elate how smooth (...or not...) the painted surface feels to the touch for me to make a concrete determination.


Now that does not mean the Screen is ruined....there are "fixes" that you can consider. Much depends upon exactly what the issues at hand actually revolve around. Texture due to improper spray technique.....or an imbalance in Reflective content...or both? I'd also like to review exactly what you mixed together...the type Gun used and the Needle size....and describe exactly how you sprayed...and how many coats.

Sanding down texture on a retractable screen is certainly possible, however it requires the use of a large surface area Sanding Sponge and very light, sweeping strokes.

If you want to recoup your loss and get to a place you want to be, PM me for the instructions that will be specific for your circumstances. Then afterwards, re-post your results.
 

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That is the darkness of the Gun Metal and what appears to be the result of an increased amount of Metallic.

All I can say at this juncture is that when asked, I try to help make a dark mix like Folk Art GM retain or improve dynamics. Offshoot considerations such a viewing cone limitations are simply things that go hand in glove with those kinda Angular Reflective mix conversions. Always...somehow...a balance must be struck.

I have no such issues with the darker versions of Silver Fire / Black Flame.....up to some pretty dark Grey variations too...unless I would also go too far in upping Metallic ratios. Which I have a few times after being asked. And the introduction of angular, and even retro reflection properties always followed suit.


To that effect I would suggest reversing the Gun Metal / Pearl ratios.

One thing....I'm certain your projector is not mounted at or just below the top of those panels. Try to see if you can place the sample at the top-dead center.
I have attached pictures where the sample is placed at the top-dead center. Somehow the view from the right side seems to be always better than left or center.
You are right about the position of the projector. It is placed below the screen.
This weekend I will try a sample with the original 1:1:1 mix and post the results.

Thanks again MM for your valuable input.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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The Mix involved can introduce enough variables to create some strange aberrations. But in your case I would suspect it is because of uneven distribution of the painted coating. Not much else known to man could explain such variances in viewing cone performance in side-to-side instances.
 

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Hi,

a long, long time lurker and first time (noob) poster here from Finland.

I really like how the Folk Art Gunmetal Mix looks like and I really, really like those blacks from the pictures I've seen on this forum.

Here is my current bedroom setup:

My projector: EPSON EH-TW5400. It's kinda like 2040, but with 2500 lm output and 30.000:1 CR slammed on a newer 2100 series body without lens shift. It's weird, I know ;-)

I'm currently projecting on to my temporary basic PVC white screen, but there is sunlight coming straight from the left side, which I can't completely block out and I have a ceiling lamp most of the time on, which is about 1.0 meters (3 ft) away from the screen. Even when off, the sunlight will wash out the picture too much for my liking on daytime.

I have a smaller 610 x 1220 mm no name dark grey silver car vinyl wrap test piece, because I wanted to have a very smooth ALr (
 

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I have attached pictures where the sample is placed at the top-dead center. Somehow the view from the right side seems to be always better than left or center.
You are right about the position of the projector. It is placed below the screen.
This weekend I will try a sample with the original 1:1:1 mix and post the results.

Thanks again MM for your valuable input.
I finally got to make a sample with the original 1:1:1 mix. But it looks no different than the previous one.
I am starting to think, that the problem ist related to the short throw ratio of my projector (1.20).

Does anyone have a tip for me?
 

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HiI have painted my screen with a mixture of paints similar to the one in this topic and I have a problem with visible texture on the screen.
I used:
Decoart Extreme Sheen Silver (because Folkart paints aren't available in my country) - DecoArt - Extreme Sheen
Bona Mega Matt (water based polyurethane lacquer) - Bona Mega (WT133613012)
Water
1: 1: 1 ratio
Painted with a spray gun, 5-6 thin layers. (Energer ENB558SRG 100W 0,8 mm Nozzle) - Energer ENB558SRG 100W Solenoid Spray Gun 220-240V | Screwfix.eu

Can anyone tell where is the problem ?
IMG_20200906_204413.jpg IMG_20200905_125940.jpg IMG_20200905_125913.jpg
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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That is what is called Orange Peel texture, and it is caused by either applying heavy, consecutive coats, or applying a coat/s over a surface that was not sufficiently dry. When a previous coat is still moist underneath it's seemingly dry surface (...and any paint / poly mix can easily exhibit that ...) then the trapped moisture cannot evaporate out befoire the covering coat surface dries enough to prevent it from escaping "quickly".. When that happens, the gaseous moisture bubbles upward and creates raised bumps under the semi-dried top surface.

You sprayed using a very small needle (0.8mm), but I cannot know how heavily you sprayed or how long you waited between coats for the prior coat/s to dry.. Each coat must have been heavier than you realize because there isn't a way to spray 5-6 truly thin coats with a 0.8mm needle (what is called Dusting a surface) and get a completely coated surface in so few a number of coats. Any such heavier coating would take at least 1 full hour or more to dry underdecent drying conditions. (...the most commonly used method employs the use of a Fan between each coat to hasten the evaporation...)

And each subsequent coat will add to the build-up and issue.

So I gotta ask this...did you read any / follow any specific painting directions?

Also...in the last image, a excessive amount of metallic particle artifact is present. That just makes any surface defect even more predominant. Bluntly put..Extreme Sheen is extremely bad. A wrong choice.
 

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Thanks for the answer. You explained a lot of things. There was a 10-minute break between the coats. For faster drying, I used a hair dryer. The surface felt dry... I will try other paint. Which paint from the attachment will be the best?
I have other gun sprayer (Erbauer ERB561SRG 700W HVLP 2,5 mm nozzle). Will it be a better choice?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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On no......stick to the 0.8mm rig. 2.5mm amounts to being a "Dump Gun"designed for applying much heavier bodies paint.

Had the initial coats been applied more lightly (Duster Fashion) and let dry out to 20 minutes with a Fan assist (Hairdryers are wholly ineffectual), the only issue you would have had was the overt sheen that resulted from the "too heavily ratio'd High Sheen Silver.

While this Thread revolves around the Easy Folk Art ALR application, the very nature of trying to do such at 1:1:1 ratio demands that the correct components be used and a correct method of application be observed.

I myself have neverbeen afan of the 1:1:1 ratio used in this application...I've seen too many complaints about graininess artifacts. But a few more end users do swear by it rather that at it, so at least I can help you make it work the best it can.

Using the Matte Silver (middle choice)would be best, and follow these painting instructions if at all possible.


Spraying Instructions and a Video or two

Dusting on Paint consists of applying the paint in very rapidly applied coats that each take about 1 minute to apply and 15-25 min. to dry between applications. The secret being to apply the very loose, wet mix** in incremental steps, each layer consisting of "Freckle-like dots of paint, each subsequent layer gradually filling in the spaces left behind. Over the course of the coats, the surface goes from looking lightly freckled to looking completely uniform.

it is necessary to dilute paint with Water to allow it to pass freely through the smaller Needle/Nozzles suggested

The first step is to place the screen in the location it will inhabit (...if possible...) or to Tape off the area of the Wall to be sprayed. The surface should be as smooth and free of defects (...bumps-cracks-pits/pinholes-previous Roller Marks...) as possible, as any high contrast paint that is smoothly applied will tend to highlight such defects. Expanded PVC Foam board is a favorite material. 6 mm thick and as large as 60' x 120". Larger "ultra smooth" surfaces can be had by using Vinyl sheeting, or even Mfg Screens can be repurposed. An inexpensive option is the smooth side of Blackout Cloth....or my favorite...smoothed Drywall.

After placing / marking off the screen, you'll need to mask off the area surrounding the perimeter of the screen / frame with Plastic or paper sheeting. If the top of the screen is within 36" of the ceiling or a adjoining "right angle" wall, those surfaces should also be masked to at least 48" from the spraying location. (...Actually, it's best to mask any adjacent surface.) Loosely draped, thin plastic can cover any Furniture, and the Floor below the screen should have a Plastic 2 mil> Drop Cloth that stretches to at least 2'-3' to either side of the bottom of the screen.(...or to each side-wall...) A Ceiling can have 9' x 12' x 0.7 mil Plastic applied using Thumbtacks and Blue Taped joint areas.

If the Screen is a material built onto / stretched across a Frame that makes the screen surface "stand off" the wall more than 1", then an effort should be made to level out the edge's "drop-off" using Cardboard strips or tightly stretched Plastic Sheeting (2 mil) so that the Spray will not "Vortex" (swirl) at the edge. That results in less paint being applied along such drop-off edges....and focusing more spray on such areas is NOT what you want to do! (...Runs "will" occur!...)

So let's get down to business of sprayin'....

Of course before you press the trigger and shoot onto the screen, it is highly advisable that you determine paint viscosity through the drainage rate you see going through the Bag Filter. Drainage rate should be thus....you pour in the paint at the same rate you pour milk into a glass. The paint should start to fill up the depression on the Top of the Filter Bag, but at the 1/2 way point or just before, the drainage rate catches up and the paint continues to strain through. Once you stop pouring, the "backed up" paint level should recede fairly quickly.

Source for Nylon 1 Gallon Paint Strainer Bags

Go here on YouTube to view Duster Painting videos and Paint straining examples: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvSoeOH0cod9j71AoUsRsPA


Spraying Technique

Starting on either the right or left top of the area to be sprayed, and at least 8"-12" to the side, the Gun is held level to the surface at 14" away and so that fully 1/2 of the ensuing spray pattern is above the top edge of the screen area. Press the trigger and immediately start moving onto and across the screen surface at a rate of 3' per second. Translated...that means your walking sideways at a normal pace....NOT slowly..and the Gun is following at that same pace.

After reaching the other side you continue on another8" to 12" then drop down no more than the height of your Fist (4") and head back the opposite direction. Repeat continuously until you reach the bottom edge to the screen surface, and finish by again overlapping the bottom edge by at least 50-60%

If you are painting an entire wall, you should first "Cut It" the Sides and Top / Bottom edges out to at least 8"-to 10" using either the Gun's adjustable Spray pattern (H/V/Spot) or a Brush (last choice). After that is done so that the edges have approx 1.2 the needed amount of paint coating, when during the Horizontal passes you reach each end, you rotate the Gun away from the Wall so that the spray feathers into the Cut-in area. You do that, and immediately drop to the next level and rotate back into the screen and move across.This method should prevent the application of excess paint into the side corners,

Remember this...it's always better to apply too little and have to do another coat. Correcting Runs, or even dealing with what is known as Orange Peel (...too thick coatings...) is far more difficult than is simply applying another corrective coat. (...but note the following warning below...)

Do NOT EVER immediately go back attempt to correct any weaker areas where you might have wavered. Let the dusted-on paint dry at least 15-25 minutes. Drying can be (...and should be...) assisted by by using a large, clean elevated Floor Fan or Pole Fan, and if possible, by raising the ambient room temperature to at least 70 degrees. ( 21 degrees Celsius) Those steps are what makes the screen dry quickly between Dusters....as fast as 15 minutes for the 1st 3-4 coats, and no more than 25-30 minutes for the 5th to 8th coats.

Also, you might to have to "Dry Sand" the painted surface (...must be completely dry! ) after the 3rd Coat, using very light, sweeping strokes. This is because sometimes Dusting can initially create a sandpaper-like texture on Vinyl or Plastic Coated materials due to Static, or your initial coats may leave a slightly coarser surface to the touch. Your NOT trying to remove paint...just knock off the "Fuzzies". That should be all you have to do, but if at the 6th coat you feel compelled to re-do the light sanding....be certain you apply at least 2 additional light Duster coats afterwards.

Any Texture that develops becomes accumulative. You cannot "cover" texture with subsequent coats...it must be smoothed first and doing so early on in the painting process is far easier and less "paint" wasteful.

Lastly, revisiting the start...be not distressed at how "freckled" the Screen will look at even the 3rd coat. Dusting means applying spots of paint that dry very quickly, with each subsequent coats filling in the gaps left behind until after 7-8 coats the entire surface looks uniformly covered. (...always bears repeating...)

That is it. The process is less involved (...and easier....) than reading / absorbing the directions...I assure you.


Additional notes:

Determining when you have enough coats applied is fairly straightforward. As the application of coats proceeds, the speckles / freckles of paint coalesce and fill in, and the screen looks progressively less mottled. Usually after the 7th coat it looks fairly uniformly coated. It is wise then to apply one final very light Duster with considerable row overlap after that point to be absolutely certain.

Important:
It is highly advised to rinse out the HVLP Gun's Needle/Nozzle assembly and Siphon Feed Tube after every 3rd application to assure that the Paint flow is not restricted by any caking of paint within the openings.

Always maintain the use of Horizontal Rows...and above all else, if one is to err in the amount of paint applied, do so by applying LESS rather than more, because one can always apply more, but correcting a "too heavy: coating is impossible without considerable re-working.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@WisniaPL ,

There you have it....instructions that should make your painting be successful. Good luck!
 
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