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Discussion Starter #21
Happy to help !
That sunlight is just murder. I suspect in anything less extreme the screen does not lose the details in the folds of her white outfit or the details of the various textures in her black tactical outfit ? I realize it is kind of amazing to even have an image in that kind of lighting, but come on ...
I tried to expose the shot as well as possible without clipping the whites nor shadows, but the projector and screen are probably doing a better job than I was (the camera and I are more to blame than anything else for detail being lost).
I thought the FA in the video looked awful dark, but your Gunmetal screen is pretty dark, too, so I wasn't sure. Based on your gain estimates for combinations of various FAs, I think I'd look to mix some Pearl and Gunmetal to keep gain above 1.0 while remaining relatively dark. I am kind of enthralled with the idea of surprising guests with how dark a screen can be and still be nice and bright in use. And if it still isn't bright enough for 2.40:1 use at 11' wide, there is still the reverse side to do with just Pearl-Poly on a white base, right ?
I just sprayed a little panel of pearl+sterling+gunmetal (4ml each along with 12ml poly and 12ml water) to check how the gain and color landed. It turned out a little darker-colored than I was figuring, right around the shade of carlsALR with gain that's just a little higher..roughly 1.1-1.2gain I'd guess. The picture's clean-ness and off-axis brightness also gets even better with the lighter-colored mixes like this, so adding pearl and gunmetal together can definitely work well.
I actually read the entire S-I-L-V-E-R thread last night and it looked promising for high-gain until I found out the Behr Faux Glaze is off the market and nobody ever confirmed a substitute. Your use of the matte poly seems like it does the same as the faux glaze did, but MM told someone in that thread that poly or even a different glaze was not a good substitute.
I'm sure poly or matte-glaze or flat untinted deep-base can all be used with somewhat differing results to achieve the same goal.
Last I read, Mississippi said he judged the gain to actually be around 1.4 or 1.5, so I'm pretty sure it won't be too hard to find a combination that gets a similar gain and shade/color.
As far as a higher gain silver-y mix, I'd look at picking up some Rustoleum SterlingSilver metallic or (if you really want to go dark-colored yet high-gain) Rustoleum RealPewter metallic because the Rustoleum is still a pretty good paint for spraying AND it contains a boatload of metallic/mica without as much surface-gloss which allows you to use a smaller ratio of matte-poly and enjoy a ton of metallic gain. I doubt the dark RealPewter would be very friendly at high gain levels, but the SterlingSilver should be very impressive with only enough poly to keep it juuuust under control.

If you've got a decent local source such as Lowe's where you can buy the Rustoleum SterlingSilver for around $30/quart, let me know if you'd like me to experiment with it a bit first...and let me know if you'd like to aim for any particular shade and gain.
 

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Discussion Starter #22 (Edited)
Muhuahahaha
A somewhat ridiculous experiment turned out to be a complete success in ways I didn't dare hope for.

Coming soon; black with around 1.0gain.

EDIT:
Well, poo. It looks like the only way this will work is with a pretty high amount of SequinBlack which kind of ruins the fun.
The experiment that worked was replacing the poly with RalphLauren or Disney/Glidden metallic (un-tinted) which seems to leave the GunMetal the same color but sadly lightens the SequinBlack noticeably.
I guess it's alright as the higher gain at these levels of darkness should really require a long throw-ratio and be pretty limiting to the viewing-cone anyway..still wanted to see it work though.
On the bright side, switching out the poly for the untinted metallic DOES let anyone looking to make a lighter-colored mix (SterlingSilver and/or PearlWhite or a light mix of Pearl and Gunmetal and Sterling) have some crazy high gain along with it.

The RL/Disney metallic dries slower than the poly and the FA metallic, so the RL/Disney is a bit less forgiving for spraying, but it still isn't bad as long as your space is warm and you make sure the last two or three coats all go on really thin/fast/light...and attacking the wet coats with a blow-dryer helps too.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
just now when I made the purchase of the FA Gunmetal. :D:D:D
I still prefer how the gunmetal works.
The black mix loses some of the forgiving nature of the Gunmetal+Poly mix AND the black naturally dims more as you move toward the sides. It's more a proof of concept than something I'd suggest for most folks whereas the GunMetal is something I'd definitely suggest for anyone who needs a very aggressive mix that they can spray onto a smooth surface.

Are you actually going to give the gunmetal a try?
Do you have a smooth surface (or wall) picked out and some water-based matte polyurethane and a blow-dryer...and a sprayer than works well for very thin paint?
Sorry about the question flood. I'm just excited to see someone else who might take a crack at this too.
If you were just joking...whoops. :D
 

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I still prefer how the gunmetal works.
The black mix loses some of the forgiving nature of the Gunmetal+Poly mix AND the black naturally dims more as you move toward the sides. It's more a proof of concept than something I'd suggest for most folks whereas the GunMetal is something I'd definitely suggest for anyone who needs a very aggressive mix that they can spray onto a smooth surface.

Are you actually going to give the gunmetal a try?
Do you have a smooth surface (or wall) picked out and some water-based matte polyurethane and a blow-dryer...and a sprayer than works well for very thin paint?
Sorry about the question flood. I'm just excited to see someone else who might take a crack at this too.
If you were just joking...whoops. :D
Yes, I will use the Gunmetal, bought 5 bottles. My intention is paint a 117" mdf screen and increase the black level on the screen. I still need buy the Poly, and will use hvlp... need to test with this mix. My screen is matte white right now
 

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Discussion Starter #26 (Edited)
Yes, I will use the Gunmetal, bought 5 bottles. My intention is paint a 117" mdf screen and increase the black level on the screen. I still need buy the Poly, and will use hvlp... need to test with this mix. My screen is matte white right now
If you haven't yet tried spraying watery-thin paint through your HVLP gun, you can thin some cheapo paint as 2parts paint and 1part water to practice and find how far down you need to clamp the gun's opening or trigger-guard to spray the thinned paint in a dusty/freckly manner (I believe you can generally leave any adjustable power settings -if present- at full unless the gun blasts out paint like violent sneezes).

Or you can try and adjust as you go with the mix, since having the first coat go on a bit thick/slow is fine as long as you dry it thoroughly and make sure the next couple of coats go on thin and fast so they each dry right away.

Seriously, don't underestimate how much a blow-dryer helps as soon as you've finished spraying a coat and wiped off the gun's tip.
 

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If you've got a decent local source such as Lowe's where you can buy the Rustoleum SterlingSilver for around $30/quart, let me know if you'd like me to experiment with it a bit first...and let me know if you'd like to aim for any particular shade and gain.
I have Lowes and HD and ACE and Walmart all nearby so sourcing paint shouldn't be an issue as long as it hasn't been discontinued like the Behr Faux Glaze.

As I said, I am too intrigued by the style of a dark screen with the lights on not to give it a shot, but the silver colored screens don't appeal as much, especially if it means any sort of sparkle like I see in the Carl's Silver sample. What I liked about the S-I-L-V-E-R was the overall white appearance of the screen in room lighting but still the high gain without reported sparkles. So I am serious about a reversible screen if the dark screen just won't do it in a dark room. I am a little concerned that zoomed all the way down, my W1070 is not quite 1.5 throw and then with the A-Lens in place what hits the screen will be barely 1.1 throw. That might mean unacceptable dimming to the outside edges with a really aggressive ALR screen since that is effectively a 25 degree off-axis view at the outside edge. Although the curve should help somewhat. If I can get my RS1 working again, it will be mounted 1.5 throw, no A-lens and using the screen flat ... but of course only 600 lumens to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter #28 (Edited)
I'm most of the way done with a 98" Gunmetal FolkArt screen and liking how it looks so far despite needing at least five coats of paint because four very light coats were needed to try and cover the first super runny coating. That first paint you put on bare ThriftyWhite tries to slide right off, lol.

Sadly the little runs/drips actually ended up with some texture at their ends so I may decide to give this whole thing a super light sanding and then a couple more quick coats.
Luckily the 24oz of thinned paint seems more than enough for this 30ft-square screen.

 

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Would spraying an unthinned coat of primer first be better than trying the mix directly on the thrifty, or would that throw away the smoothness of the final surface ? Maybe just a light sanding of the thrifty instead of primer would be enough to give the thinned mix something to bite ?
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
Paint or primer after a bit of sanding should be smooth enough I think, but just roughing up the malamine might work too.
I didn't really think I'd NEED either since my previous panel worked fine..though it might've been too cold while I was spraying this one.

I added pictures to the previous post.

EDIT:
There's also a decent chance that this malamine panel was dirty and a little greasy while I sprayed it..I totally forgot to clean it before painting. D:
 

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I didn't really think I'd NEED either since my previous panel worked fine..though it might've been too cold while I was spraying this one.
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Funny. It's been in the 90's the last few days where I am.
 

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I've done numerous TWH applications with water-thinned mixes with no issues. Of course I was using the correct sized Needle (smaller droplets dry faster / shrink and flatten more, and resist blending into a "run" ) and proper Dusting technique, along with a forced air Heater &/or Fan.

There is no replacement or alternative to doing things in a proven and disciplined manner when working with something that borders on being a unusual application, and working with such liquefied paints certainly applies.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Funny. It's been in the 90's the last few days where I am.
Yeah, it's weird because I KNOW it was colder when I painted the previous one in bare ThriftyWhite which worked fine and this time it felt comfortably warm. I'm still guessing my first coat was too slow for the slippery surface at the outdoor+night temperature.

I've done numerous TWH applications with water-thinned mixes with no issues. Of course I was using the correct sized Needle (smaller droplets dry faster / shrink and flatten more, and resist blending into a "run" ) and proper Dusting technique, along with a forced air Heater &/or Fan.

There is no replacement or alternative to doing things in a proven and disciplined manner when working with something that borders on being a unusual application, and working with such liquefied paints certainly applies.
This was bare unprimed unprep'ed ThriftyWhite sprayed on way too slow/thick outdoors at night without a fan nor temperature control. It's not the gun's fault, I just went way too slow for that first coat considering the environment and surface.

I'm just baffled over it having worked so well earlier despite the same materials and worse conditions.
Maybe the much older ThriftyWhite I used before had been surface-roughed through repeated cleanings I'd done over time while the current one hadn't been.

Either way I recommend using a warm and dry space with plenty of moving air for the best results and prepping ThriftyWhite's surface can only help.

I also found a similar hardboard that's half the price of ThriftyWhite but smooth on both sides without a malamine coating..so that may be a better alternative for anyone looking for an inexpensive solid surface to paint.
It was with the lumber and plywood instead of with the wall panels.
 

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Prepping a melamine surface enough to actually give it "tooth" will mean scratching it, and that is certainly not want you want to do.

It should be wiped clean using a alcohol-based spray (Windex Pro) to remove any Grease or Film. Or simply wiped clean using soap and water. But that is all.

Now ideally one could Duster-apply a special Primer such as Glidden Gripper.....about 3 coats minimum. Of course that takes a bit of the easy spontaneity out of the equation.

No....what needs to be done is this:

1st Coat is a exceedingly light Duster. with sparsely applied droplets that are let dry completely before proceeding.
2nd Coat goes on identically the same.
3rd Coat Ditto

Those three spotty coats then act like the needed "Teeth", turning the overly slippery surface into something with more traction.

After those 3 coats, continue to lightly Dust until complete coverage is accomplished. Rush things by applying paint too thickly and your ripe for issues. Do it right as outlined and there will be NO issues....at all. :cool:

One still needs to Dust...and one absolutely should not get overconfident and rush the time interval between coatings. As stated in Ftoast's previous post, going so far as to try to create as ideal a spraying situation helps tremendously. One need not have a room's heat level at "Earl Schieb Infrared Baking" levels....68-70 degrees will work. 75 degrees all the more so. 80 degrees +? Now your cookin'! :p

Trying to paint in high humidity / low temperatures has always been a no-no, even for any painting with normal paints....even when using Rollers. Using a "clean" Pole or Box Fan placed above the Floor and set to medium speed & pointed directly toward the surface from approx 8' is all that is needed if the room temp is 68+ degrees and proper Dusting technique is employed.

* Upping the Room's temperature by using the Central Heat between Coats is what I do when possible.
(Winter-time Garage Painters have problems doing so....so without bothering to use a space heater, not much can be done /suggested to help)

* The Ideal Way:

  • Start by closing Registers in other rooms to increase air output in the room being used
  • Run the HVAC until a desired room Temp is reached (80 degrees is optimal)
  • Turn Heat Off and WAIT for the HVAC Fan to stop blowing air
  • Spray
  • Turn On whatever Fan you have. Make sure it is Clean (no Dust build-up on the Blades or Grill)
  • After 5 minutes, turn on the Heat again
  • After 15-20 minutes the Screen will be dry....turn off the Heat and resume spraying
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Using the method outlined above, and at a room temperature of 80 degrees +, it is possible to apply 8 ultra thin Duster Coats in just over 2.5 hours. Slightly cooler spaces...3 hours. Is it any wonder that I go to the trouble to tent-out a room when spraying a screen, eh? Taking as many of the environmental conditions out of play makes one's creative life much more easier. One very special added benefit of using a heater / HVAC....it dries out the air.

Basically...you can follow these directions and be absolutely assured of success...each and every single time.
......................................................................or not. And suffer the potential consequences.

These directions apply to all Duster Spraying on all surfaces....they just happen to also be the ONLY way to get consistently perfect results using TWH.

But suppose'n ya gotta spray in a Garage...with no heat....no Fan....during Fall Monsoon season.

Ultra light Dusters and no-rush sufficient dry times are your only recourse. And under such conditions, at least borrow a couple Space heaters.

Sheesh. :rolleyes:
 

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Using the method outlined above, and at a room temperature of 80 degrees +, it is possible to apply 8 ultra thin Duster Coats in just over 2.5 hours. Slightly cooler spaces...3 hours. Is it any wonder that I go to the trouble to tent-out a room when spraying a screen, eh? Taking as many of the environmental conditions out of play makes one's creative life much more easier. One very special added benefit of using a heater / HVAC....it dries out the air.
I know I was amazed at how warm my kitchen got when I tented it in plastic to protect the cabinets when doing drywall patch work on the ceiling. And that was just using LED can lights. When working in the garage I use a halogen work light which is practically a space heater all by itself. So people who don't want to go out and buy a "space heater" just for this purpose in the garage should ask themselves how many work lights and cheap plastic tenting can they emplace to create a much better spraying environment. Good advice on cleaning the dust from the fan blades. I just wish the manufacturers made it easier to get at them instead of putting two dozen screws to get the finger guards off.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Good points from both if you. I'll certainly try whatever I can if I end up with space to spray indoors again.

Here's the finished borderless screen BTW:



It works pretty well despite using a 150lumen projector at 1.35:1 throw-ratio.
 

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Yes, it seems to...but none of the images you show tend to illustrate what the actual surface looks like, or the degree, if any....of metallic presence.

I think it would be somewhat mandatory to compose your images showing the position of the projector itself. That should represent no problem

Also a couple of Macros of the painted surface with & without an image present.

There is a "please" included....of course! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
Yes, it seems to...but none of the images you show tend to illustrate what the actual surface looks like, or the degree, if any....of metallic presence.

I think it would be somewhat mandatory to compose your images showing the position of the projector itself. That should represent no problem

Also a couple of Macros of the painted surface with & without an image present.

There is a "please" included....of course! :)
That second attachment above your post does show the projector's position..it's a small projector, you might've missed it. ;)

Good idea about the texture, that's something you don't see compared too often nowadays.

This picture does NOT accurately show the color-difference between these samples, JUST the texture/grain difference.


For those who don't know:
-Carl's Silver material has enough visual texture that many people find the sample off-putting,
-Carl's ProGrey/ProWhite has a physical texture that can be troublesome for painting on but is generally considered a non-issue for regular use,
-Carls FlexiGrey/FlexiWhite is a very smooth material that's considered good for both painting AND basically invisible as a stand-alone screen.

As a subjective comparison:
the 1:1FA-Gunmetal : Poly in-person is just a touch more visible than the ProGrey/ProWhite to me, while the 1:1FA-Sterling : Poly is about as invisible as the FlexiGrey/FlexiWhite.

Hope that helps.
 

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Good points from both if you. I'll certainly try whatever I can if I end up with space to spray indoors again.

Here's the finished borderless screen BTW:



It works pretty well despite using a 150lumen projector at 1.35:1 throw-ratio.
That looks good in person ?? It seems like the projector is horribly out of focus to me. The rest of the room is in focus, but the screen images just blurry brown and blurry black. Your pics of the previous small scrap screen didn't have that problem, so I assume it is an out of focus projector, yes ? If that is "Fury" is looks hopelessly muddled for a daytime shot.
 

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That second attachment above your post does show the projector's position..it's a small projector, you might've missed it. ;)

Good idea about the texture, that's something you don't see compared too often nowadays.


For those who don't know:
-Carl's Silver material has enough visual texture that many people find the sample off-putting,
-Carl's ProGrey/ProWhite has a physical texture that can be troublesome for painting on but is generally considered a non-issue for regular use,
-Carls FlexiGrey/FlexiWhite is a very smooth material that's considered good for both painting AND basically invisible as a stand-alone screen.

As a subjective comparison:
the 1:1FA-Gunmetal : Poly in-person is just a touch more visible than the ProGrey/ProWhite to me, while the 1:1FA-Sterling : Poly is about as invisible as the FlexiGrey/FlexiWhite.

Hope that helps.
That is a very interesting comparison shot of the different surfaces. The Gunmetal is not as much darker than the Pro-Grey as I expected and I am surprised by the amount of mica flakes visible in all the samples. Of course, I am one of those who finds the sparklies on the Carl's Silver completely unacceptable, but those in the Pro-Grey and Flexi-Grey didn't bother m at all. I hope the Gunmetal is on the right side of my tolerance level. How much Pearl would it take before the shade was as light as the Sterling ? And would that mix of G&P still be more sparkly than the pure Sterling ?

I just got out my Carl's samples. Your pictures make the Flexi-Grey look much darker than my sample pack from Carl's. If the Gunmetal is really lighter than that, then I am totally confused. I was expecting it to be much darker than even the Carl's ALR sample, but Flex-Grey is already lighter than duct tape and your pic of Gunmetal looks lighter still. You said from the beginning that this was one of the darkest mixes you'd tried, but I would not consider the Flex-Grey or Pro-Grey to be "dark" at all.
 
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