[vruiz]

I posted this on the other thread but I thought it significant enough to warrant its own:


The following was received by someone at the HTF from Echostar:

"Thank you for your email correspondence. We appreciate you taking the time to address your questions and concerns in writing. Questions and feedback from our customers is vital in our continuing effort to provide world class customer service.


EchoStar has developed a DVI-HDCP interface for the model 6000. There are no present plans at EchoStar to use this technology unless it becomes necessary because of direction the Industry is taking. It has always been our policy to keep up with the industry standards as they become real. The copy protection efforts under way are not in our control. We can only react to what is happening in the Industry. That said, we need to assure that we will keep up with what ever technology changes occur and continue to provide quality programming at the lowest possible cost.


If copy protection becomes a reality then we will have to conform in kind. This is driven by the content providers and not the set top box providers. We have virtually no influence in that part of the industry and will not be a voter in the way it goes.


Your business is greatly appreciated. If you have any further questions or concerns, please refer to www.dishnetwork.com or reply to this email and include all previous correspondence so that we may assist you promptly."



Sincerely,


Mark G.

Technical Support

DISH Network



Looks like they may be backing down from their earlier hardline stance. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------

Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C

 

[mikexny]

What do they mean by saying that they have a dvi hdcp model 6000? Does this mean one is already in the makings?



--MIKE

 

[LeeAntin]

Mike,


The 6000 has two ports on the backside. One is for the OTA Module. Everyone assumes (be careful of that word) that the other port in question would be either a 1394/5C or a DVI/HDCP copy protection Digital Video output.


You have to read the message carefully. Copy protection is a very large concern in the HDTV market and MAY effect all of us. If you are new to this subject do some searching.


Lee

 

[mikexny]

So basically, dish is saying they have a module dvi/hdcp available if so needed. And this module plugs into the 2nd open port of the model 6000 alongside the 8vsb module????

 

[LeeAntin]

Correct

 

[mikexny]

Does this mean regardless of whether firewire or dvi/hdcp becomes the new copy protection standard-- the model 6000 would not become obsolete because of its upgrade availablity via module ports? SO in essence, does this make the model 6000 future-proof?



--MIKE

 

[btmoore]

Quote:

Originally posted by mikexny: Does this mean regardless of whether firewire or dvi/hdcp becomes the new copy protection standard-- the model 6000 would not become obsolete because of its upgrade availability via module ports? SO in essence, does this make the model 6000 future-proof? --MIKE

Maybe, but who cares, the STB is the cheap part, it is the projector or TV where all your money is at and a HDCP board in your STB won't fix that. The display is the most expensive piece of equipment and it is what would be potentially obsoleted with HDCP/DVI or FW/5c.


Regards,


Brian

 

[mikexny]

DO u think there is a realistic chance manufacturers can make some type of box that will go between the stb and tv set to encrypt the data whether firewire or hdcp/dvi using component inputs?


--MIKE

 

[mikexny]

ACtually, is such a thing even technologically possible?

 

[vruiz]

Not a chance. That would defeat the purpose of what they're trying to do.


This isssue has been discussed extensively here in the past few months. Do a search for "dvi, hdcp, 5c, dtcp" and you'll find loads of discussions to bring yourself up to date.


Happy reading! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------

Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C

 

[trbarry]

Under the current licensing agreements it may or may not end up possible to create and sell HDCP<-->5C converters but it would be technically possible to do without having to include an mpeg encoder.


The "powers that be" would be hard put to explain why they would not allow these.


The reason I mention it is because if you follow Mits's stated plans they will only have a 5C promise module but Dish may have only a DVI/HDCP module.


If the converter existed then the only question is whether the Dish compression format is compatible with the Mits mpeg decoder. Who knows?


- Tom


------------------
Getting started with HTPC:
HTPC FAQ , DScaler , Xcel's Links , and
The Anti-DMCA Website .s>
And Free Dmitri Sklyarovs>

 

[Alan Sh]

To me this e-mail has the same significance and timeliness of DirecTV's assertion that they are in negotiation with Showtime.


Mark G. may be simply pasting material which was written for him months ago. When have CSRs been provided with breaking information? And what new information is there?


Since they indicated support for DVI/HDCP long ago and the design of the 6000 is modular, shouldn't we expect that some preliminary design work was done on the interface? Are we surprised to learn that content protection is driven by content providers? Are we surprised to learn that Echostar feels they have virtually no influence in this area? Are we surprised to learn that they don't plan to implement it unless necessary?

 

[trbarry]

Quote:

Since they indicated support for DVI/HDCP long ago and the design of the 6000 is modular, shouldn't we expect that some preliminary design work was done on the interface? Are we surprised to learn that content protection is driven by content providers? Are we surprised to learn that Echostar feels they have virtually no influence in this area? Are we surprised to learn that they don't plan to implement it unless necessary?

No, but we may be surprised that they are no longer foolishly cheerleading for it like some other companies. That at least is a start.


- Tom


------------------
Getting started with HTPC:
HTPC FAQ , DScaler , Xcel's Links , and
The Anti-DMCA Website .s>
And Free Dmitri Sklyarovs>


[This message has been edited by trbarry (edited 08-28-2001).]

 

[Rick_R]

Personally, I would be pleased if Dish came out with a 1394/5C module for $99-$149 and Mitsubishi sold their HDVCR for $995.


I sent Dish an email a few weeks ago asking if they had plans for a 1394/5C module and they replied that "they had no information at this time".


Rick

 

[LeeAntin]

Rick,


Your suggestion still doesn't solve the problem...the ability to record AND display HDTV.


By DISH making available a 1394/5c module you can now get the HD signal from the 6000 to the Mits HD VCR.


But how are you going to get the HD recorded signal from the Mits to your display? The only way to do this is to have a Firewire input on your display. Does yours have one of those? Mine doesn't.


The Mits HD VCR will ONLY have HD coming from the 1394 output. It receives the HD signal from the 1394 input and sends it through the corresponding 1394 output. The only signal coming from the Component or the S-Video is good old NTSC...480i.


I hope you can now see how serious the problem is. It is not about DISH adding a 1394/5C module. I paid $499 for my 6000 with OTA Module. I paid $11,000 for my Zenith PRO900X FPTV...which only has RGBHV input. Which one do you think I want to replace?


Lee

 

[mikexny]

Assuming firewire becomes the industry standard and not dvi/hdcp is down-rezing still capable of happening. Is this down-rezing only functional with dvi/hdcp.. or is it a function of the stb itself regardless of hdcp/dvi and firewire.

 

[carlosrojas-pdx]

Quote:

Originally posted by mikexny: DO u think there is a realistic chance manufacturers can make some type of box that will go between the stb and tv set to encrypt the data whether firewire or hdcp/dvi using component inputs? --MIKE

I think the manufacturers will have to do something, Mitsubishi already promised an upgrade module for 5c IEEE1394, I have read some conflicting articles on Mits position about hdcp/dvi, but hopefully the new module will have both.


I read a response that somebody here got from Pionner, Pionner said that they will provide a path for compability for their HDTV sets, but did not give how or dates.


If manufacturers don't do something, I'm sure most if not all of us will organize for a class action law suit, what other alternative do we have?


I also read and article in which a Dish VP said that they are considering either grandfathering the 6000 or providing a low res alternative, again I think that any thing less than full HDTV compability merits a class action law suit.


As a 6000 owner, I'm glad to hear that Dish at least has an upgrade module, I think we need to wait and see where the industry goes.


Let's maintain a vigil, together we can maintain our HDTV sets usable & valuable.


Carlos




------------------

Stop DFAST.

Boycott JVC!

 

[dkeller_NC]

Down-rezzing is an integral part of the DTCP/5C "Firewire" copy protection standard.


------------------
ABC = Another Boring Channel. Watch CBS on Monday Nights!

 

[Rick_R]

I am assuming that 1394/5C interface on the Dish module is bidirectional as is the 1394/5C interface on the Mitsubishi HDVCR. Without this, of cource the HDVCR is worthless.


Then the issue is in the Dish 6000. When receiving a encoded program from the HDVCR via 1394/5C would it require a DVI interface to not be downrezed. I assume if the original signal did not have to be downrezed, the recorded signal would also not have to be downrezed.


These were my assumptions.


Rick R

 

[mikexny]

I am confused? Assuming dvi/hdcp will become the standard can the material still be downrezed? Is the downrezing a function of the model 6000 alone or does it need dvi/hdcp to make it work.