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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


I started a thread here a couple of days ago,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&pagenumber=1


and I'm very glad for all the response I got there! Now I'm sure where the problem starts. When I've fully converged the unit I'll have clearly visable horizontal lines on the red and blue tube(as stated in my previous thread) at those places I had to touch up with the convergence.


I've tried doing the mechanical part as good as I can like centering the raster on the tubes, aligning the raster horizontal with the deflection(?) yoke, doing flare/stig and optic/electronic focus and centering the red blue lens. Now I don't know how good it's possible to get the tubes overlapping eachother. It looks good in the center, like 4 blocks horizontal from top to bottom, but on the left and right side I have to use convergence quite alot since the blue and red doesn't match the green in size(?)..


Is there anything more I can do to alter the tubes individually, or could it be something wrong with the convergence and/or waveform card?


Thanks!
 

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There are width control on each of the deflection boards (below the tubes) for each color. Make certain this is what you need though. Don't widen red & blue where it pushes raster to the edge of the tube! When you look at the convergence grid, is red narower on the left AND right? How about blue? If is narrower and not just off on one side, then adjust the width coil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Jay,


Well I took some screenshots instead, will be easier getting the info from them, they are here:

http://w1.171.telia.com/~u17110673/


Both pics are taken with the nulled and then just centered vertically so it would be easier seeing how they align. I have increased brightness/contrast quite a bit on the pics so it'll be easier to see them, the pics looks crap but they'll atleast show what's going on.


Thanks!
 

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JVC RS40, Pioneer Elite Receiver, B&W Atmos in ceiling. Draper Onyx.
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Hi axe,

I don't know what is going on but after tinkering with my ECP's guts this weekend my PJ looks the same. I have ordered a mulitmeter to help me do a full check-up on the unit, but I would still like to read some opinions from other poeple on correcting/diagnosing the problem.


John
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the replies!


Zolsar: I'm not sure weather my mechanical geometry is normal or if it's a little to off, so this is aprox how your looks like after you have V/H aligned everything in the center before convergence being applied?


jcmccorm: Hi, I'm unsure that this would be a width problem, it looks more like a height problem. For example, the blue is higher on the left side than the right side. On the right side the blue matches the red quite good but not on the left side. The complete opposite goes for the red. I'm just curious if there's an actual solution(?) for this or if it's just something everyone have to correct with convergence.
 

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Vertical isn't a problem...there is no way to adjust the vertical position of the red and blue other than convergence. This is something Cary and I are thinking of adding to our units. You want to lock the picture in mechanically as close as possible horizontally. Then you can use convergence to bring the red and blue up/down.


This is just what we went through on my thread about trying to vertically align the red/blue. Can't do it :)


Use the width, mechanical toe in, and raster centering to get the picture as aligned horizontally as perfect as you can. Vertical is OK to adjust with convergence. MAtter of fact, its the only way.


Read this thread;

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=ecp+owners


and this one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=ecp+owners

Mecahnical geometry is the most important thing to a stabel picture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Jay: Thanks! Well this is actually what I've done, aligned everything horizontal as good as possible w/o convergence. So with other words something is very wrong since I get distortion(lines) in the picture as soon as I've converged the thing.. I think I'll just have to live with it, the only time I actually notice it from my sitting position is when it's full red or full blue, which is very rare in movies, god thank you ;)
 

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There *are* individual height adjustments on the Power Deflection Modules that you could tweak on blue (red looks ok).


I see what you mean about the center being ok but blue and red shifted on either side of center. Looks like there needs to be a horizontal linearity adjustment somewhere....


Cary
 

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Axe, go back and adjust the width a bit, toe in/out a bit, recenter the raster. check width again...you SHOULD be able to get a bit closer. I don't think you should have distortion, and you definately shouldn't have to live with it IMO. Basically you want to even the errors. If you're 2 inches off on one side, and not off on the other, you should equalize so you are 1" off on both sides. That way it is a lot easier to correct. I'm going to take some pics of mine tonight just so Mike can see that all his help has not been in vain...hell, he even taught me everything about the ECP that I posted above. I'll atke a pic of the convergence grid for you with a hard reset so you can see what it could be. It takes a lot of time to set one up so that it is a good pic and so it doesn't drift. This go round I've got close to 10 hours in mechanical alignments/convergence. Takes me about 20 seconds now to do any touchup if needed.
 

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Well crap. I just noticed the pics. Is that with 0 convergence or have you done the center and this is the result? If so, reset it and get the mechical as close as possible. For instance, when I do mine, I don't want to shift the global red/blue...the 1st grid that comes up...AT ALL left to right. I only want to do vertical. After I do that, there is no place on my convergence grid that is out by more than a 1/2 inch. And that is pushing it as 1/2 is only in a spot or two. 90% of my grid is only a line thickness off.
 

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Another thing Axe, and it may just be the pics so this with a grain of salt, the top green lines look like they droop on the left. Also, the keystone looks off. Again, maybe just a bad pic, but something to double check. Got to have green perfect. :)


PS, what kind of signal are you feeding the pj while you do this?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
jcmccorm: "horizontal linearity adjustment", that's exactly what I've been looking for, but for the individual colors ;)


Jay: Don't reset it just for me! But if you were going to do it anyway I appreciate it very much! I love to see such screenshots, very intresting since my ECP is the only one I've actually seen in reality, so I have nothing to really refer to. Tomorrow I'm going to triple check everything, will remove the lenses and measure an exact center position for the raster, that should do it ;)


Thanks again everyone for helping out - wish I could return the favor.
 

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Axe, you didn't say what you are feeding as a signal?


And as far as horizontal linearity...Cary, can we add that too? :D:D:D
 

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After reading a few other post on setup, reviewing the service seminar PDF and some other things I am dropping out of this thread. I have determined my problem goes beyond just the convergence. I foolishly played with a few things and realize I need to make some bias, G2, Keystone, and other voltage realted issues. I am not touching anything until I get the right equipment later this week. Thanks for the input. I'll be back to review the thread if a full service doesn't do the trick.


Side note:

Strange, four weeks ago I didn't have any questions about anything, but the more I read here the more questions I have. I am totaly sucked into this CRT hobby. I had no idea. :)


John
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Jay: I'm using my HTPC, that's the only way to go me thinks ;) I've tried different sources though like dvd player with s-video. I'll post my findings tonight after I've redone everything once more and let you know if I got it closer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
OK I have now centered all the rasters as good as I could, though they were actually quite good even before. I'm not totally happy with it though, not as linear as I had hoped for. I'm pretty sure something gotta be bad since it should be able to take this amount of convergence w/o giving me distortions(h-lines).
 

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Axe, I still don't understand what you mean by "distortion". Are you referring to the fact that the red and blue don't line up with green? That's not distortion...that's convergence. It won't all line up perfectly from just the raster centering. For one, I still think the green is off in the pix with blue. It droops on the left and the keystone is off. (Still, could be a bad pic but worth mentioning) I just want to make certain that you understadn everything affects everything else. For instance, after raster centerign, you should do your flare/stig adjustments as this will affect raster centering. Then you center again. You will have to use some convergence through the menu to line everything up. Convergence is the VERY LAST step after all geometry/focus is complete. Stick with it...it will come together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Jay: Sorry if I havn't been real clear, those shots are old now, should have removed them ;) All the rasters are centered almost spot-on as far as I could see, I removed the lenses to be able to measure it a little better. It got a little better but not perfect.


When I said distortion I didn't mean it wasn't converged, I meant that when I have converged it the distortion(horizontal lines) will be noticable on the red and blue tube when I for instance show a picture with either big blocks of blue or red in it. Convergence in it's self is just fine, spot on, never had a problem with that really, I've just fine tuned it the mechanical way thinking that I wouldn't stress the components more than necessary, and would maybe even get rid of those horizontal lines I was talking about in the last thread.
 

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You're right in that the better the mechanical, the less stressed the components are...that's why I was so adamant about the mechanical being correct...less drift. But I thought in your last thread that you had ultimately decided that it WAS a convergence problem...now I'm really confused :)


I'm glad that you spent the time to do the geometry, I just wish I could see the horizontal lines you refer to. NORMALLY when there are horizontal lines in an all r/g/b color, they would be described as white, thin, slightly diagonal which would indicate G2 settings are too high. But you described them as thick adn not white...so I'm not really sure.


Understand, I'm not an expert on the ECP, I have just spent about a year in here learing, listening, and experimenting and only now am getting to the point where I really understand the technicalities of the ECP. I am simply passing on what has been taught me over the past year. I think that your pj is probably ok, and there is a little something we're not communicating on.
 
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