[appy]

Hi all


First of all what a great forum (and members too) this is!! Hats off to you guys.


Have been vascillating between ED Vs HD for some time and have immensely enjoyed the ED Vs HD wars here. personally, am tending towards the panny 7UY ED.


Except that today, I happened to measure pixels (for want of a better term) on my 27" Panny flat CRT. It turns out that, its resolution is the same (maybe 5% better) as that of an EDTV. The dot pitch is bit less than 1 mm and I calculated close to 540x450 resolution on the TV. (and we all know NTSC is 440x480i )


Which raises questions like:

1. Given that the CRT has better blacks, contrast, brightness etc and same (if not better) resolution, Will ED really look better (apart from size)? (The ED and SD dont carry the same signals at stores, so have found it a bit hard to compare) How much impact can 480p have over 480i ?


2. How can a HD signal look better than SD on ED resolution, as Ive read here?


3. Is it safe to conclude that ED is best only for viewing 16:9 DVDs?


thanks

-Appy

 

[Joxer]

Your CRT is an analog set so it has an interlaced display, the ED plasma gives a progressive display for a much clearer image. The 42" ED plasmas have an 852x480 resolution, so thats significantly higher horizontal resolution and the scaler does a great job of scaling HD sources.

 

[sleeks]

It can also accept a much better signal (480p, 720p, and 1080i). Even if it scales it back to 480p it will be better simply because of the quality of the signal it gets.


Ask the stores to switch the ED plasma to an SD feed. The smaller stores (Tweeter, etc) will usually flip inputs for you. You can even have them play your favorite DVD (as long as it is not too obscene for young eyes and ears in the store).

 

[mangopony]

ED is ideal for viewing DVDs and SD can look good on an ED display if you have a clean signal. At 6-8 feet an HD display will look 'somewhat' better on HD content over a ED display. At 12 feet or more, the differences are just about non-existant. If you must have an HD set, you can buy a very good Sony, etc. LCD rear projection set (a larger screen) for about same price as a plasma ED set. Get out and view for yourself. Only use the comments/opinions here as a starting point. Happy viewing. By the way, HD content will look much better than SD viewed on an enhanced display.

 

[Joxer]

Another big difference between an analog/interlaced CRT set and an ED or HD plasma with progressive display is the lack of visible scan lines on the latter.

 

[ejsandiego]

I understand how the 42 ED 7UY would look great using a 480p DVD player so I wouldn't have to be thinking of upgrading my Denon 1600 in the near future. My receiver does component switching so don't need a blade for slot 1, just use one component. What I have trouble with is the set top box feed and what to do with the HD feed for the channels that come in HD.


I have Cox cable and will use one of their boxes. What would the feed be to the Ed panel? Do you get an HD box and send a 720p signal and have the TV downconvert?


If you just choose to send a 480p signal sent to the panel won't it be displayed in pilllar box format and then you have to use full screen format.? I was under the impression that you don't want the cable box to do the conversion, you want the TV to do it so you would select a 480i signal to be used.


If I want a box that will record such as the SA8000 what are the set up choices? If you just selected 480 you would always send a SD signal, do you also send the 720p or 1080i and let the set downconvert?


Confused over how you get the ED to show a very good HD signal.

 

[martyj19]

Another reason HD can look better on an ED is that there is quite a bit more color information in HD than there is in SD. And as you pointed out there is at best around 440 pixels worth of horizontal information in SD (it being analog this can vary from frame to frame), while there will be 1280 or 1920 in HD, all of which can contribute.

 

[mangopony]

ejsandiego: Not to worry....I just send, via component cables, the signal from my HD set top box (Directv) and the HD content looks great. I feed over the air HD content thru the set top box and it looks great. I never 'set' anything except HD on the Panasonic ED. Do not worry about number of pixels, etc. What is important is how the HD content looks. And it looks great.

 

[appy]

From above discussion (and other sources ), let me summarize some of the more objective arguments for ED over SD


1. 480p provides better resolution over 480i. Apparently interlacing loses some (like 25-35%) vertical resolution 'effectively', so 480i seems more like 350 lines or so.


2. 480p reduces scan line effect.


3. HD signal has richer color info so looks better (than SD) on EDTV. (Im not entirely convinced of this, but .)


4. DVDs will look best on ED as no scaling is involved. Scaling on HD can introduce artifacts unless its very good scaler which cost $$$ aka Fujitsu. Right?


5. obvious ones like higher HRes, size, etc etc


OK, Im convinced that ED is worth it at current prices, at least for my needs which is mostly SD & DVD in Home Theater setting. Hopefully, the 7UY will be better than panny EDTV I see at BB/CC.

-appy

 

[sleeks]

Quote:

Originally posted by appy 3. HD signal has richer color info so looks better (than SD) on EDTV. (Im not entirely convinced of this, but .) -appy

SD vs HD content on an EDTV is no contest, HD tv is MUCH better. People are blown away when I go from Fox to Fox Digital or ESPN to ESPN HD (When they are showing HD programming). In many people's opinion, if you are sitting at least 10ft away, an HD signal on an EDTV is equivalent to an HD signal on an HDTV.


(Which is why we have all of the explosive ED vs HD threads where people argue about which tv shows HD better. Not going to get into that here, but you can search for those threads and read at your leisure.)


For your viewing habits, it seems like a 7uy will be a good fit, however, if you did not like the panny EDTV at BB/CC, you probably wont like the 7uy. Did you adjust settings at BB/CC to your liking? Will you be watching in bright room or dark room for most of your viewing? How far are you sitting from the screen?


These are all questions you need to answer before purchasing. Each of those questions can have a drastic impact to the answer of which tv is right for you.


For instance, most would say that for a brightly lit room, a Pioneer is superior...a dark room the panny is superior.


If you are closer than 8ft, you may see screen door effect. Again, play with the settings on the sets at the store and see what you like.



Good luck with your decision




Edit: Oh yeah, ask the sales people at the store to change input sources from SD to HD and have them let you play a DVD also. If BB/CC balks at this, find a tweeter or similar type store. They will do this for you.

 

[DJRobX]

Quote:

3. HD signal has richer color info so looks better (than SD) on EDTV. (Im not entirely convinced of this, but .)

You may not be convinced yet, but that's a major understatement. Once you've watched HDTV programming, you realize just how bad NTSC color really is. Even a lot of the "upconverted" standard definition programming that the digital stations broadcast looks incredibly better than the standard definition equivalent channel.


480P is *vastly* better than 480i. With standard definition, you're seeing 240 lines that alternate and vibrate 60 times a second. That's okay for a

 

[appy]

Quote:

Originally posted by sleeks SD vs HD content on an EDTV is no contest, HD tv is MUCH better. People are blown away when I go from Fox to Fox Digital or ESPN to ESPN HD (When they are showing HD programming). In many people's opinion, if you are sitting at least 10ft away, an HD signal on an EDTV is equivalent to an HD signal on an HDTV. (

I totally agree HD content looks fantastic (and way better than SD) on EDTV.


I was just refering to the color aspect. I know 7UY shows 3.6billion colors (11 bit depth using 32 bit processing). Latest NEC have use 12-bit depth. But I dont know what color depth is encoded into HD Vs digital SD signals.


I will see improvements in color if and only if

a) color depth in HD > SD, AND

b) SD depth
c) my eyes can perceive the color differences in HD vs SD.


Normally 8-bit depth (.ie 24bit color) is considered "True Color" - what ever that means.


So does anyone know how color information is encoded into HD and SD signals?



Oh, the panny EDTVs Ive seen at BB/CC are the best of the lot. I was just wondering if next generation 7UY will provide any visible improvements.


thanks

appy

 

[mangopony]

Of course, as we move from year to year, model to model, the resulting picture on the screen should be somewhat better. But, in my opinion, year to year, the differences are slight, just like buying a new Honda '05 over a Honda '04. The main thing, you will get a slightly over-all better picture at a lower price. So, the display becomes a better value.

 

[Mad Chemist]

Quote:

Originally posted by appy 3. HD signal has richer color info so looks better (than SD) on EDTV. (Im not entirely convinced of this, but .)

Increased chroma resolution is what gives HDTV its pop. Correct me if I screw something up here. HDTV is 4:2:2 which gives a chroma resolution of 960x1080 for 1080i and 640x720 for 720p. DVD is 4:2:0 which gives a chroma resoluton of like 360x240. Thats why HDTV looks so much better even on a ED plasma. And remember, DVD has more color information than SD NTSC which is literally just blobs of color. I remember seeing 4:4:4 480p (equal luma and chroma resolution), and was shocked at how good it looked.