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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys Im wondering if someone could tell me exactly what kind of editing you can do with the harddrive.


When they say edit using the harddrive do they mean cutting and pasting or do they mean adding titles and making menu's?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zachwhite0
When they say edit using the hard drive do they mean cutting and pasting or do they mean adding titles and making menu's?
Yes.


To expand on this: You can create chapter boundaries within a title (recorded program) on hard drive to, for instance, bracket commercials for removal. A play list is then built using only the chapters that you want to keep. When you dub (copy) using this play list to a +-R/RW/RAM then the new title that is generated becomes an original title without the commercials.


In another example you can make a new play list by rearranging the chapters in the order that you want.


You can combine into a play list chapters from different titles to make one new original title.


These new play lists can be copied onto media or back onto the hard disk drive. There are many more things that you can do in editing but this was intended to give you an idea of what is available.


Ken
 

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...or you can dub the playlist to the SAME media to create an original title from the playlist title. (That is, you can remove commercials or otherwise trim down a show, while keeping it on the hard drive.) I've done this sometimes.


Ok, upon rereading more carefully I do see that you do say that in the last paragraph, but I think it's worth saying it again.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtS
As I know, only Toshiba allows you to copy to the same media (eg. from HDD to HDD).


ArtS :cool:
ArtS I use a Toshiba XS34 and I did not realize that other makes did not allow you to copy from HDD to HDD. This is a very handy feature and I have used it several times.


Ken
 

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Regarding creating menus...


Most DVD recorders have a VERY limited selection of menus.


Toshiba has the most flexible menu creattion options. As far as I know, Toshiba is the only one that can create chapter menus. Most recorders let you select from a limited choice of DVD title menu "templates" with a thumbnail/text position for from 3 to 6 title(s).


The result is that your "finalized" DVD will have from 2-5 blank thumbnail/text entries. Butt ugly. The Sony menus that I've seen are only a title list with NO thumbnail(s). Pioneer (and maybe JVC) created DVDs do nothing when inserted in a DVD player until you press Menu or Play on the player. WTF...


For pretty menus, you'll have to go to your PC. :rolleyes:
 

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Regarding creating menus...


Most DVD recorders have a VERY limited selection of menus.


Toshiba has the most flexible menu creattion options. As far as I know, Toshiba is the only one that can create chapter menus. Most recorders let you select from a limited choice of DVD title menu "templates" with a thumbnail/text position for from 3-6 title(s).


The result is that your "finalized" DVD will have from 2-5 blank thumbnail/text entries. Butt ugly. The Sony menus that I've seen are only a title list with NO thumbnail(s). Pioneer (and maybe JVC) created DVDs do nothing when inserted in a DVD player until you press Menu or Play on the player. WTF... :rolleyes:
 

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Zach, good question; how deep do you want to go?


A lot of flexibility, but there are some "gotchas".


1. At the edit point, there is a pause of about one second when the dubbed disk is played back; this can be avoided by making the dub in real time, but losing the advantage of high-speed dubbing, and there is reported to be a quality loss due to "re-encoding".


2. The guys that came up with chapter-editting suffer from severe tunnel vision, at least speaking for the Panasonic E85. You set chapter points, then build a PLAYLIST by selecting the chapters you want to keep (or you can erase the unwanted chapters). Now, if you create a second playlist from the same source Title, all the (unerased) chapter divisions are still there. Playlist three would contain the chapter markers from playlist two plus the garbage from playlist one.


The Panasonic E100 has a far better method of creating playlists, and each playlist is independent of all others. On the E100, you simply go thru and set the START and END point for each scene. You can come back and add scenes, move scenes, erase scenes (from the PLAYLIST only, the original source is unaffected), or change the start and /or end points for any scene. Much, much simpler than changing chapter start and end points.


On either the E85 or the E100 playlist, you can choose or mix scenes from any sources you have on your hdd, which is nice.


Much depends on what you want to do. Drop a few commercials and rarely use multiple playlists on a source, the chapter-edit scheme will probably be fine.


I use the dvdr for event recording, weddings, church services, musical programs, Vacation Bible School. An example, for Vacation Bible School, I was aked for a 5 to 7 minute highlight to show during the church service. I started out using the E85, and after some 35 chapter divides, and not sure I "divided" every time I intended to, I was only half through. I gave up, copied the source to dvd-ram and brought it home to my E100, where I ended up with 37 scenes. Would have been 75 chapters on the E85.


I can speak only about the two machines I have experience with, which is probably what you want. I am still looking for a near-ideal machine myself, but I am becoming more aware of what I want and need.


Happy hunting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldemanphil
Regarding creating menus...


For pretty menus, you'll have to go to your PC. :rolleyes:
Was this a joke? If not then I dont mind using my PC. Im not sure how I would go about hooking another dvd player to my PC though. I will not be recording TV at all. Only dvd to dvd or media files from the computer anyway. So if I can get better custimization going with a burner for the PC then thast what I will do. I would like to be able to choose the thumbnail picture for each chapter selection and things like that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT
2. The guys that came up with chapter-editting suffer from severe tunnel vision, at least speaking for the Panasonic E85. You set chapter points, then build a PLAYLIST by selecting the chapters you want to keep (or you can erase the unwanted chapters). Now, if you create a second playlist from the same source Title, all the (unerased) chapter divisions are still there. Playlist three would contain the chapter markers from playlist two plus the garbage from playlist one.
I'm afraid that you are misrepresenting the E85 chapter editing process. If you record a title, then create a playlist from it, initially the playlist has no chapter marks. You chapterize the playlist, delete some chapters, move a few around, whatever. If you then make a second playlist from that original title, it will be exactly the same as the original playlist was before you started editing it--clean, with no chapter marks. If you put chapters in the TITLE they will of course be propagated to the playlist, but chapter marks in one playlist will not appear in another.


You CAN copy a playlist, which of course will put all the chapter marks from the source to the copy, but from then on, you can edit the first some more without having an effect on the second, and you can edit the second without having any effect on the first.


If you then go back to the original title and create a third playlist, it will be clean, with only the chapters that were in that title, with no chapter points or editing from either playlist one or two.
 

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Quote:
Toshiba has the most flexible menu creattion options. As far as I know, Toshiba is the only one that can create chapter menus.
I'm not sure I understand. Can you clarify on all that it can do? What do you mean chapter menus? I have Panasonics. Thanks.
 

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Chapter menus -- a separate screen for each title (i.e. each "show") that shows the chapters (specific scenes) that you make for each title. You can name the chapters separately too, but you'll have to use the painful onscreen keyboard.


I haven't personally used the chapter menu capability much (except when I accidentally had it turned on when I finalized a few DVDs), but I'm glad it's there. I can imagine using it in the future for some music DVDs -- have all of the songs in one title, but also have them individually selectable in a chapter menu.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustinlc
I'm not sure I understand. Can you clarify on all that it can do? What do you mean chapter menus? I have Panasonics. Thanks.
To give an example that may be familiar - the Simpsons DVD's (like most DVDs of TV shows) have both "Title" and "Chapter" menus. The "Title" menu lists all of the different episodes on the disc. When select one of these, you're presented with a "Chapter" menu which lists the different portions of that episode (usually broken at the point at which commercials would have been inserted into the episode). Of course you usually just use the "Play" option at the chapter menu so that the episode starts to play from the beginning, but this gives you a choice of jumping into the episode wherever you want.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy
If you then go back to the original title and create a third playlist, it will be clean, with only the chapters that were in that title, with no chapter points or editing from either playlist one or two.
My experience is as I stated. I created the chapter points from the PLAYLIST SubMenu divide chapter. That this sets chapter points in the Title can easily be demonstrated by setting chapter points in a playlist, then returning out of playlist and going to Direct Navigator and Playing the Title. Press the >>| key.


If there is a way to generate Playlist chapters independent of prior playlist activity, then I've missed it.


Anyway, this should serve as a warning to thoroughly check out the EDIT procedures if editing is of major importance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardT
My experience is as I stated. I created the chapter points from the PLAYLIST SubMenu divide chapter. That this sets chapter points in the Title can easily be demonstrated by setting chapter points in a playlist, then returning out of playlist and going to Direct Navigator and Playing the Title. Press the >>| key.


If there is a way to generate Playlist chapters independent of prior playlist activity, then I've missed it.


Anyway, this should serve as a warning to thoroughly check out the EDIT procedures if editing is of major importance.
Wow. That's interesting. I did an experiment on my EH50 last night where I took a title, made a playlist, put chapter marks in it, went to the Direct Navigator, and the title was clean, no chapter marks. I then put chapter marks in the title, went back to playlist and looked at the playlist of that title. The chapter marks I had just made to the title were not in the playlist. Playlists and titles are independent as far as I can tell.


I'll have to get my E85 ant try this again with it, but I always remember it working this way. This seems very strange to me.
 

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RichardT,


Well I finally got my E85 back and ran some simple tests. I recorded a title and made playlist1 out of it. I then placed many chapter marks in playlist1. Going back to the navigator screen and looking at the original title showed no chapter marks in the title. I then went back to the playlist screen and made playlist2 from the title. Playlist2 had no chapter marks in it. I returned to the navigator screen and made some chapter marks in the title, at unique places. I returned to the playlists page and neither playlist1 nor playlist2 had the new chapter marks I had placed in the title in them. I then created playlist3 from the title, and it DID have the title chapter marks in it. I then went to playtlist1 and deleted part of it. This had no effect on the title, on playlist2, or playlist3. As a final test, I deleted part of the title (navigator page). This change showed up in all three playlists.


The behavior I observe is that changes made to a playlist have no effect on the title, or on other playlists made from that title. With the exception of actually removing content, changes made to a title won't effect a playlist made previously, but will effect one made later. Removing content from a title effects everything.


Pressing the chapter button during playback places a chapter mark in whatever you are playing. Using "Divide Chapter" from the sub menu dose the exact same thing, just using a different interface. There is no difference in the chapter marks made between these two methods. In neither case should any changes made to a playlist ever have any effect on the title from which is was created.


If your machine does not behave this way, then I would see about getting it serviced, as this is the way it should work (according to the manual). This is also the way both of my EH50s work.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard T
My experience is as I stated. I created the chapter points from the PLAYLIST SubMenu divide chapter. That this sets chapter points in the Title can easily be demonstrated by setting chapter points in a playlist, then returning out of playlist and going to Direct Navigator and Playing the Title. Press the >>| key.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Church AV Guy
RichardT,


Well I finally got my E85 back and ran some simple tests. I recorded a title and made playlist1 out of it. I then placed many chapter marks in playlist1. Going back to the navigator screen and looking at the original title showed no chapter marks in the title. I then went back to the playlist screen and made playlist2 from the title. Playlist2 had no chapter marks in it. I returned to the navigator screen and made some chapter marks in the title, at unique places. I returned to the playlists page and neither playlist1 nor playlist2 had the new chapter marks I had placed in the title in them. I then created playlist3 from the title, and it DID have the title chapter marks in it. I then went to playtlist1 and deleted part of it. This had no effect on the title, on playlist2, or playlist3. As a final test, I deleted part of the title (navigator page). This change showed up in all three playlists.


The behavior I observe is that changes made to a playlist have no effect on the title, or on other playlists made from that title. With the exception of actually removing content, changes made to a title won't effect a playlist made previously, but will effect one made later. Removing content from a title effects everything.


Pressing the chapter button during playback places a chapter mark in whatever you are playing. Using "Divide Chapter" from the sub menu dose the exact same thing, just using a different interface. There is no difference in the chapter marks made between these two methods. In neither case should any changes made to a playlist ever have any effect on the title from which is was created.


If your machine does not behave this way, then I would see about getting it serviced, as this is the way it should work (according to the manual). This is also the way both of my EH50s work.
Several weeks ago, my thumb accidently slipped and pressed the Sub menu button while in step 1 of creating a playlist-selecting the title to create a p/l of. To my surprise, the pop up tab listed Divide Title. I tried it, and was able to divide the show on the hdd (playlist screen transferred me to the divide title screen) , and then go back and select the individual chapters that were newly created to compose the p/l. T o my surprise, the newly created ch marks were present on the hdd recorded show. I didn't know that was possible. One year anniversay (Aug 15) with the E85, and still learning new stuff.


Richard T, you can create a p/l of any show that doesn't have chapter division/marks already present by skipping the divide title function while in the create p/l screen. Just select the title to be p/l'ed, press Enter to place it in the 2nd row, Enter again to confirm, and pres Return to go to the P/L area. add any marks you want in that p/l, and should you create another from that same show, it won't have any ch marks that were created for the 1st p/l.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C
Several weeks ago, my thumb accidently slipped and pressed the Sub menu button while in step 1 of creating a playlist-selecting the title to create a p/l of. To my surprise, the pop up tab listed Divide Title. I tried it, and was able to divide the show on the hdd (playlist screen transferred me to the divide title screen) , and then go back and select the individual chapters that were newly created to compose the p/l. T o my surprise, the newly created ch marks were present on the hdd recorded show. I didn't know that was possible. One year anniversay (Aug 15) with the E85, and still learning new stuff.
As far as I know, this wasn't exactly covered in the manual and this is the first I've ever heard of it. I guess it's back to the machine for more experimentation. As you said, had it for nearly a year and still learning more stuff. Sigh... At least I can say I learned SOMETHING today.
 

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Well, I am chagrined! There it is, on page 32 of the manual--divide chapter (in title) from the create playlist page. So, if you made changes using that process, they would be made to the title. I never saw it before now, but that is likely because it is in tiny print between steps 5 and 6 of creating a playlist. Thanks Westly-C for pointing that out to me, and I apologize RichardT if that was the process you were using. Clearly, editing that way WOULD change the titles just as you described.


That sub menu option is available in the eh50 too, but I obviously never saw it THERE either.
 
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