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Opinion on AVR to properly drive Elac Uni-Fi's.

I have 2 Elac UF5s (floorstanders) and Elac UC5 (center channel). I am looking at Marantz SR6012 or Marantz SR7012

Any thoughts on how these receivers would be able to handle the Elac UF5s? Would they mute the dynamic performance of these speakers somewhat or take away from the full capabilities of these speakers?
The UFs are known to be hard to drive, so I would go with the SR7012 over the SR6012, because the SR7012 has a bigger/beefier power supply and more powerful amp section.
 

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Opinion on AVR to properly drive Elac Uni-Fi's.

I have 2 Elac UF5s (floorstanders) and Elac UC5 (center channel). I am looking at Marantz SR6012 or Marantz SR7012

Any thoughts on how these receivers would be able to handle the Elac UF5s? Would they mute the dynamic performance of these speakers somewhat or take away from the full capabilities of these speakers?
I ran my ub/c5 setup on a Denon x2100 with no problems, now it's an x4200. I'm not sure where that aligns with the Marantz model.
 

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Opinion on AVR to properly drive Elac Uni-Fi's.

I have 2 Elac UF5s (floorstanders) and Elac UC5 (center channel). I am looking at Marantz SR6012 or Marantz SR7012

Any thoughts on how these receivers would be able to handle the Elac UF5s? Would they mute the dynamic performance of these speakers somewhat or take away from the full capabilities of these speakers?
I'm driving the same three speakers (two UF5s and one UC5) with a Marantz SR7010 with no troubles. In fact, I love the sound. I've set the amp to run @ 8 ohms; i.e.: 125 WPC. I also have dual RSL Speedwoofer 10s', so set the cutoff at 80 Hz, which reduces to power needs from the AVR front channels. I do on occasion listen to the Elacs all by themselves (2 ch Direct) and could be just as happy.

For dedicated 2-ch I can also drive the UF5s with a 70 WPC tube amp (Bob Latino VTA ST-120) on the 8 ohm tap. I can switch between amps and use the RCA outputs from the SR7010 and the Elacs sound even better!
 

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The other adjustment I'd make with your system is to move each of the L/R speakers at least 2 feet further apart, so that you get more of an equilateral triangle between them and your main listening position (which I'm guessing is dead center in front of the TV screen). I'd also pull them at least 6 inches further away from the wall, and toe them in towards your MLP.

Right now, their current position might be aesthetically ideal, but acoustically not.
After troubleshooting with all the advice on here I was able to get slightly increased dialog clairty. Boosting the treble on the AVR, plugging the C5 ports and bumping up the crossover frequency to 90hz did result in an audible improvement. That being said it was not a big enough improvement for me to continue using them.

I picked up a set of Hsu HB-1s and a HC-1 today and have been listening to them as I work. They have solved the dialog issue for the most part. I think that my tinitus holds me back a bit in this regard but watching some scenes without subtitles on has been much better. Only negatives I can say about the Hsu HB-1/HC-1 is that they are much larger than the B5s/C5 (the center in particular), they really do like to be toed in, there is a small rip on one speaker grill (bought used, Hsu wants $50 shipped for a new one, anyone try to redo the fabic grills themselves?) and there may be very slight sibliance occassionally but it is hard to tell if thats really happening or I am just getting used to brighter/more neutral speakers.

I am probably going to sell my Elacs. Not sure if I am still going to try the Chane A2.4 given that I am satisfied with the improved performance of these Hsu speakers.

Might be a better use of budget and energy to get a ported subwoofer from Hsu to replace my SB-3000 (or even a ULS-15).
 

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I picked up a set of Hsu HB-1s and a HC-1 today and have been listening to them as I work. They have solved the dialog issue for the most part.

Might be a better use of budget and energy to get a ported subwoofer from Hsu to replace my SB-3000 (or even a ULS-15).
"for the most part" = can you elaborate on what would give you 100% satisfaction?

Re. the sub upgrade, I'd stick to a ported sub if I were you. You already have a big armchair in front of that right front corner where it would go. Just add a plant and/or lamp on top of it for camouflage. :)
 
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"for the most part" = can you elaborate on what would give you 100% satisfaction?

Re. the sub upgrade, I'd stick to a ported sub if I were you. Just put a plant and/or lamp on top of it for camouflage. :)
As far as the sub goes, I have my eye on the VTF-3. There is also a local posting for a VTF15 MK1 for $400 but I think that might be too big. It also seems like the older VTF-15s are a bit underpowered. Using a large sub as a table of sorts to put some houseplants on might be an acceptable compromise. Still waiting on that longer RCA cable to move the sub into the corner.

As far as dialog clarity goes, I am not really sure where that last 5% of satisfaction would come from. Like you signature says, it is good enough and Im not sure that chasing better performance will yield much better results.

To describe the problem, I used the same scene from John Wick where Virgo is telling John that he is going to kill William Dafoe. When he is talking on the phone, the background music still seems to be louder than the conversation. Being able to be able to hear voices clearly, even when mixed with bass heavy music would give me 100% satisfaction. I am not sure that better speakers are the answer though.

It is more audible now with the Hsu. Keep in mind that I do have hearing damage, tinitus in my left ear (firearms without hearing protection when I was a teen). I am not sure if that last bit of clarity I am looking for could be found with better room correction or DSP. I am happy with my Yamaha HTR-4065 but I do wonder is room correction from an entry level Denon would be better than YPAO.

Honestly that scene in particular might just be a tough one since its pretty bass heavy. I will have to test over the next week with more films and see if its improved. Watching Inglorious Bastards today I was able to have subtitles off and not miss much (99-98% legibility?). Most scenes in Inglorious Bastards don't have dialog competing with pulsing, bass heavy rock music like John Wick has though.

I feel pretty happy with the purchase as long as the SO doesn't hate how they look too much. The Elacs were not exactly lookers but the horn on the Hsu is not very WAF so these might need to be run grilled. The dustcaps on the woofers seem pretty delicate compared to my Elacs so grills might be best anyways.
 

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To describe the problem, I used the same scene from John Wick where Virgo is telling John that he is going to kill William Dafoe. When he is talking on the phone, the background music still seems to be louder than the conversation. Being able to be able to hear voices clearly, even when mixed with bass heavy music would give me 100% satisfaction. I am not sure that better speakers are the answer though.

I feel pretty happy with the purchase as long as the SO doesn't hate how they look too much. The Elacs were not exactly lookers but the horn on the Hsu is not very WAF so these might need to be run grilled. The dustcaps on the woofers seem pretty delicate compared to my Elacs so grills might be best anyways.
VTF-15H for $400 is a frickin' steal, if it's in good condition and hasn't been abused! I don't think it's THAT much bigger than the VTF-3. Again, you have that huge armchair blocking you from seeing it from the main listening position anyway...I'd jump on that deal pronto.

Your "dialogue problem" sounds like it'd be easily fixed by simply boosting your center speaker trim level in your receiver manually. I'd try that first.

So your SO objects to the Hsu speakers' size? I'm surprised to hear that, since they are actually less boxy/bulky depth-wise than the ELACs. Just slightly bigger due to the 6.5" woofers vs the ELACs' 5" ones.
 

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VTF-15H for $400 is a frickin' steal, if it's in good condition and hasn't been abused! I don't think it's THAT much bigger than the VTF-3. Again, you have that huge armchair blocking you from seeing it from the main listening position anyway...I'd jump on that deal pronto.

Your "dialogue problem" sounds like it'd be easily fixed by simply boosting your center speaker trim level in your receiver manually. I'd try that first.

So your SO objects to the Hsu speakers' size? I'm surprised to hear that, since they are actually less boxy/bulky depth-wise than the ELACs. Just slightly bigger due to the 6.5" woofers vs the ELACs' 5" ones.
She is about to get home and I got them today so we will see if she objects. I was just surprised at how big they. I guess I saw that dimensions and thought, its only a little bigger than my Elacs. The center is a beast for sure. This is my first experience with 6 inch drivers and I like them so far. One thing that is impressive to me over my B5s is the dynamics. Not sure if the 6 inch driver helps with that but these things do a good job at getting quiet while still being clear, then jumping up and filling the whole room.

All the furniture you see is being replaced with the new stuff on its way. There will not be an arm chair there anymore in a month or so. We are just going to have a couch with double chaise and maybe an accent chair on the left of the left channel speaker. We were looking at having an area for house plants, microgreens and plant starters for the garden there so that might be an option. That or I should just built the Marty end table I have wanted to build for a few years now lol. I am just not the most handy guy so I might need to call for backup from some more "manly" friends.

The listing has been up for over a year. He is actually selling two VTF-15 MK1 for 700 or one for 400. I know that fitting two is out of the question unless I can convert one into an aquarium stand or something lol. Ill put together a cardboard mock up and see how the VTF-15 flies.
 

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VTF-15H for $400 is a frickin' steal, if it's in good condition and hasn't been abused! I don't think it's THAT much bigger than the VTF-3. Again, you have that huge armchair blocking you from seeing it from the main listening position anyway...I'd jump on that deal pronto.

Your "dialogue problem" sounds like it'd be easily fixed by simply boosting your center speaker trim level in your receiver manually. I'd try that first.

So your SO objects to the Hsu speakers' size? I'm surprised to hear that, since they are actually less boxy/bulky depth-wise than the ELACs. Just slightly bigger due to the 6.5" woofers vs the ELACs' 5" ones.
I will play with the center trim level and some other AVR settings. I know you told me that 80% of movie audio comes from the center channel right? In that John Wick scene in particular there is a lot of music coming from the center channel as well the dialog. I had my father over yesterday and we were playing with the system. He thought that too much music was coming from the center and that was the issue. Not sure if that is true? I was using a bluray so there shouldn't be any surround decoding going on right? Just the straight uncompressed surround signal? Could I be having some sort of upmixing issue in that situation?
 

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I will play with the center trim level and some other AVR settings. I know you told me that 80% of movie audio comes from the center channel right? In that John Wick scene in particular there is a lot of music coming from the center channel as well the dialog. I had my father over yesterday and we were playing with the system. He thought that too much music was coming from the center and that was the issue. Not sure if that is true? I was using a bluray so there shouldn't be any surround decoding going on right? Just the straight uncompressed surround signal? Could I be having some sort of upmixing issue in that situation?
Well, either that movie is badly mixed or your receiver is doing something weird with the decoding; make sure the "Auto" mode is on, rather than some DSP preset. Normally the music should be mainly coming out of the front L/R, with the center doing dialogue and front sound effects.

Try the first 10 minutes of "Gladiator"---there is a battle scene where Russell Crowe is shouting orders to his troops and his voice is blended together with all sorts of battle sounds. If you don't have any trouble understanding him, that's a very good sign.

There's also the scene in "Pulp Fiction" where Travolta and Jackson are driving and discussing McDonalds in Paris, and their voices are mixed in with a lot of road noise.
 
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The UFs are known to be hard to drive, so I would go with the SR7012 over the SR6012, because the SR7012 has a bigger/beefier power supply and more powerful amp section.
I just bought a SR7012 Open Box from World Wide Stereo (Authorized Dealer). Wish me luck, I hope everything works perfectly and I like the receiver, as I spent more than I originally wanted to for a receiver (though I believe it was still a good deal)
 

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I'm driving the same three speakers (two UF5s and one UC5) with a Marantz SR7010 with no troubles. In fact, I love the sound. I've set the amp to run @ 8 ohms; i.e.: 125 WPC. I also have dual RSL Speedwoofer 10s', so set the cutoff at 80 Hz, which reduces to power needs from the AVR front channels. I do on occasion listen to the Elacs all by themselves (2 ch Direct) and could be just as happy.

For dedicated 2-ch I can also drive the UF5s with a 70 WPC tube amp (Bob Latino VTA ST-120) on the 8 ohm tap. I can switch between amps and use the RCA outputs from the SR7010 and the Elacs sound even better!
May I ask why you are driving these Elac Uni-Fi speakers as 8ohms, instead of 4ohms? As these are 4ohm speakers.
 

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May I ask why you are driving these Elac Uni-Fi speakers as 8ohms, instead of 4ohms? As these are 4ohm speakers.
If you have center as 4 and rest of them as 6 then how to approach it?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
 

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May I ask why you are driving these Elac Uni-Fi speakers as 8ohms, instead of 4ohms? As these are 4ohm speakers.
There is a lot of debate about that subject @FIUFSU1. I am not a high level listener, so not as concerned with overcurrent on the 8 Ohm setting.

From The Man himself...https://www.cnet.com/news/how-to-stop-worrying-about-speaker-impedance/

Congrats on the SR7012. These are great AVRs. The learning curve can be pretty steep too, but very rewarding.

~jasn
 

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Well, either that movie is badly mixed or your receiver is doing something weird with the decoding; make sure the "Auto" mode is on, rather than some DSP preset. Normally the music should be mainly coming out of the front L/R, with the center doing dialogue and front sound effects.

Try the first 10 minutes of "Gladiator"---there is a battle scene where Russell Crowe is shouting orders to his troops and his voice is blended together with all sorts of battle sounds. If you don't have any trouble understanding him, that's a very good sign.

There's also the scene in "Pulp Fiction" where Travolta and Jackson are driving and discussing McDonalds in Paris, and their voices are mixed in with a lot of road noise.
Thank you for your advice. I have found several surround decoding errors throughout my system that have been holding me back. Using the signal display on my avr has been helpful as I can see if its getting a stereo or 3.1 signal.

Not sure if how my system is set up was holding me back. My AVR does not support HDR so I am running all sources directly to my TCL 6 Series TV. Then I run an optical cable to the AVR and set it to AV1. TV Audio was previously set to Auto Detect, but reading the description it uses HDMI CEC to read supported audio formats, otherwise it only outputs stereo. I have been using digital surround decode this whole time, even on 5.1 supported content it seems. I changed the setting to support Dolby Digital and DTS (I don't think my AVR supports DD Plus, so should I not enable that setting for audio output?).

My PS4 was set to output in PCM. Swithing it to Dolby fixed the stereo in menus and games but not in blurays. I had to go into the bluray settings and switch the audio format from Linear PCM to Bitream Direct. For some reason this allowed the PS4 to send an actual 3.1 signal, which did separate the channels and did not force surround decode like it had been. More music is now coming out of the LR than before so it is a bit more clear now.

Still need to do some more testing.

I also went into the eq and switiched it to manual (GEQ instead of PEQ) and booksted 1k (+1db) ,2.5k (+2db) and 6.3k (+1db) while dropping 160hz by 2db. Found some old posts recommending that eq for better dialog clarity.

Still in the testing phase this morning so I will let you know how it goes.

Watching Entourage last night on HBO Max (on Shield TV) my GF commented that the new speakers sounded worse... So I hope this adds to the dialog clarity. Might do some AB testing with my Elac center again and see what kind of difference it makes. I think I will probably keep using the Hsu speakers but we will see.
 

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Thank you for your advice. I have found several surround decoding errors throughout my system that have been holding me back. Using the signal display on my avr has been helpful as I can see if its getting a stereo or 3.1 signal.

Not sure if how my system is set up was holding me back. My AVR does not support HDR so I am running all sources directly to my TCL 6 Series TV. Then I run an optical cable to the AVR and set it to AV1. TV Audio was previously set to Auto Detect, but reading the description it uses HDMI CEC to read supported audio formats, otherwise it only outputs stereo. I have been using digital surround decode this whole time, even on 5.1 supported content it seems. I changed the setting to support Dolby Digital and DTS (I don't think my AVR supports DD Plus, so should I not enable that setting for audio output?).

My PS4 was set to output in PCM. Swithing it to Dolby fixed the stereo in menus and games but not in blurays. I had to go into the bluray settings and switch the audio format from Linear PCM to Bitream Direct. For some reason this allowed the PS4 to send an actual 3.1 signal, which did separate the channels and did not force surround decode like it had been. More music is now coming out of the LR than before so it is a bit more clear now.

Still need to do some more testing.

I also went into the eq and switiched it to manual (GEQ instead of PEQ) and booksted 1k (+1db) ,2.5k (+2db) and 6.3k (+1db) while dropping 160hz by 2db. Found some old posts recommending that eq for better dialog clarity.

Still in the testing phase this morning so I will let you know how it goes.

Watching Entourage last night on HBO Max (on Shield TV) my GF commented that the new speakers sounded worse... So I hope this adds to the dialog clarity. Might do some AB testing with my Elac center again and see what kind of difference it makes. I think I will probably keep using the Hsu speakers but we will see.
Might be worth it for you to check your local Craigslist for a cheap BD player, should be able to find something for $20-50 I think...if using it just for music CDs/MP3 you can even get an older DVD player for even less money. Might save you a lot of headaches, instead of using the PS4 to play your media.
 

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Might be worth it for you to check your local Craigslist for a cheap BD player, should be able to find something for $20-50 I think...if using it just for music CDs/MP3 you can even get an older DVD player for even less money. Might save you a lot of headaches, instead of using the PS4 to play your media.
I will consider that for sure. I have been waiting to see how the PS5 fairs as a 4k bluray player before making a physical media player purchase. Although from what I have been reading it might not support Dolby Vision or Atmos (I don't use atmos but I do use Dolby Vision) so maybe a 4k player would be worth it. I am just starting to collect physical media (only about a dozen blurays so far) and have been looking at 4k discs as well.

It would be nice to incorporate a CD player into the system as the PS4 does not play them (why Sony?). Been looking to build a CD collection instead of vinyl as my critical listening is done through Google Play Music right now (I know it sucks). CDs are very affordable to thrift so I already have a small collection. I could probably dig up my dads old collection as well.
 

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Does anyone else think it's odd the Debut Reference towers and centers are 5" where the book shelves are 6.5" no 5" books?

All their floorstanders have 5.25" woofers, that's strange IMO. Unless they believe everyone is using subwoofers. You have to reach the Vela line for larger sized woofers but at that price there are several other options.


Anyone bought the DBR62?
 

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Andrew Jones knows how to make a 5.25" woofer belt out loads of nice bass (Uni-fi, original Debut B5), but since the Debut 2.0 line he tends to have forgotten how to do that. Now, even the speakers with 6.5" woofers seem tame compared to his older creations.

Not sure if they just want to sell subwoofers or there are design decisions being made, but the field of bookshelves that need subwoofers is a crowded area to play in. I was hoping the Debut Reference would bring back some of the low-end of the original Debut/Uni-Fi, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
 

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I recently purchased the ARF51 in beautiful piano black for a dedicated turntable set up.

Just the turntable, phone preamp and the speakers (and i had to add a volume control). So the entire chain is analog from start to finish.

The Elacs with the built in AB hybrid amps all analog sound really nice. Missing lower bass extension but the hi and mids are sweet sounding to my ears. I listen for hours without fatigue. I'm looking around for something powered that's bigger but would keep these (started a thread on that).

I hope Andrew builds the same design but with say 8" woofers in a larger enclosure for better extension. Then he has me as a customer and advocate for life.

P.S. Their customer service is terrible. They don't answer the phone, they don't return voicemails timely (last left one 2 days ago) and they don't answer emails for days. So I posted on Facebook social media like where are you guys and then they answered me pretty fast -- leave it to the fear of social media reaction.
 
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