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This should be an easy one. Im wiring my basement right now. I'm basically down to wiring up the last circuits for all the HT equipment. NOW keep in mind here my HT that I'm putting together is quite basic. I'm not going all out crazy.


Equipment will be, EPSON projector, Denon Reciever AVR-2310, Sony PS3, Directtv Receiver, and an electric screen. Is this too much to put on a normal circuit that using a 14-2 line? Right now I have a Samsung 40in LCD, PS3, and Directtv box running on one circuit upstairs. (no receiver upstairs).


Am I safe with the tipical 14-2 with a 15 amp breaker or do I need to use 12-2 on this? Thanks for your help.
 

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You should be fine.
 

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If you have not yet run the wires, I would go with 12/2. It's a lot easier to up-grade a circuit breaker than to run a new cable.
 

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I agree that 14/2 should be fine however if your walls are open to allow rough wire install I would consider one 12/2 run to the avr area of set-up just in case you ever add an amp, they usually require a 20 amp breaker with the 12/2 run.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawzalot /forum/post/17016107


I agree that 14/2 should be fine however if your walls are open to allow rough wire install I would consider one 12/2 run to the avr area of set-up just in case you ever add an amp, they usually require a 20 amp breaker with the 12/2 run.

Why?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawzalot /forum/post/17016107


I agree that 14/2 should be fine however if your walls are open to allow rough wire install I would consider one 12/2 run to the avr area of set-up just in case you ever add an amp, they usually require a 20 amp breaker with the 12/2 run.

I would agree that a 15amp circuit should be fine. Also if the wall is open I would run one or two dedicated 20 amp circuits over as well incase you go crazy and add some amps that may require it. Or just go with two or three 20amps with no 15amp, it is just as easy and not much more to run a 20amp circuit than a 15 and if its needed it will be there without having to pull new circuits. Just in case you may not know 14/2 is for 15 amp circuits and 12/2 is 20amp. You can't just switch a 15 amp breaker for a 20 if the right gague wire is not run. If you already knew this than just ignore it, figured I would put it out there just incase.
 

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Here's another option....


If the walls are open, and your considering bumping up to 12awg for the extra power, that may or may not be needed. Why not just save the trip to your local hardware store and run a second 14/2..?
 

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OK, I think that we were thinking about different things. The "they" that sawzalot was writing about was the amplifiers and I thought that the "they" was the inspector.


So anyway. A 15 Amp breaker may be wired with any wire from about 8ga to 14ga.

A 20 Amp breaker may be wired with any wire from about 8ga to 12ga.


Oversize wire is always good and the longer the run the better it is.
 

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While true that there is minimun size for the wire with no real maximum size why go through the risk of putting your hands back in your panel to change a 15 amp breaker to a 20 amp. The cost difference is almost nothing. Not saying it is terribly hard to change a breaker, but if you're going to run 12 wire why not just run it to a 20 amp breaker?! It is very easy to make a small mistake and pay a very big price (your life) while dealing with electrical at the main box especially. I have seen to many professional electricians make those small mistakes and get lucky, and have been bitten too many times myself (lucky it wasn't in the main panel) during my work around electrical to risk putting my hands in when it could have been done right the first time. Just my 2 cents take it for what you will. Also for the difference in cost I wouldn't hesitate to just pull a couple of extra 20 amp circuit, I know I did when I rewired my house.
 

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The only common reasons I can think of for using a 15 Amp breaker on a 12ga line are:

a) Better protection if only small devices are plugged into the circuit.

b) Better protection if the wires are very, very long. A 20 Amp breaker could take a long time to trip with a short at the far end.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater /forum/post/17027935


The only common reasons I can think of for using a 15 Amp breaker on a 12ga line are:

a) Better protection if only small devices are plugged into the circuit.

b) Better protection if the wires are very, very long. A 20 Amp breaker could take a long time to trip with a short at the far end.

The most common reason for using a larger guage wire is to prevent excessive voltage drops when starting electric motors with large inrush starting currents. The voltage drops (called IR drops) will increase the time of the motor to come up to speed and exacerbate the problem. If the IR drop is enough, it can actually cause motor damage but the more common side effect is that it 'blows' the fuse or 'pops' the breaker. This was often a problem on farms where the workshops could be a long distance from the main circuit panel.


There was a discussion a while back on on one of the forums about having this problem with an air compressor. (I had a compressor one time for a short while that would not start if it was plugged into an type of extension cord! I returned it as this was an totally unacceptable product design as far as I was concerned!)
 

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I'd just do 12-2 with a 20amp breaker and be done with it. The difference in cost is what, maybe $3 total? More amperage available than a single 15amp, less breaker box spaces taken up than doing 2 15amp runs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vcook /forum/post/17028916


I'd just do 12-2 with a 20amp breaker and be done with it. The difference in cost is what, maybe $3 total? More amperage available than a single 15amp, less breaker box spaces taken up than doing 2 15amp runs.

+1 as I stated previously.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater /forum/post/17027935


The only common reasons I can think of for using a 15 Amp breaker on a 12ga line are:

a) Better protection if only small devices are plugged into the circuit.

b) Better protection if the wires are very, very long. A 20 Amp breaker could take a long time to trip with a short at the far end.

a) ???? how is it better protection?


the breaker usually is there to protect the wire.


b) not sure how many homes, let alone business or commercial buildings have runs that long. I know I have tripped breakers that were hundreds of feet away in an instant. Never once has something taken a long time to trip if it is in good condition, even then they will trip sooner rather than later.


The biggest problems come when people don't wire things correctly or they run a wire to its max a good amount of time. What starts to happen when you drive a, lets say 15 ampo circuit at 13 or 14 amps often, the insulation starts to get heated and deteriorates at a higher rate. This then causes shorts and dangerous conditions which cause a lot of electrical fires.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbare /forum/post/17029080


b) not sure how many homes, let alone business or commercial buildings have runs that long. I know I have tripped breakers that were hundreds of feet away in an instant. Never once has something taken a long time to trip if it is in good condition, even then they will trip sooner rather than later.

Define "instant" for me if you could. Breakers are inherently slow when it comes to reacting to overcurrent conditions.

Quote:
The biggest problems come when people don't wire things correctly or they run a wire to its max a good amount of time. What starts to happen when you drive a, lets say 15 ampo circuit at 13 or 14 amps often, the insulation starts to get heated and deteriorates at a higher rate. This then causes shorts and dangerous conditions which cause a lot of electrical fires.

Stick to banging tin bigbare... A 14awg wire which is rated for used at a max of 15amps can handle far more before it begins to even threaten to deteriorate. I'm all for erring on the side of caution, but posting falsehoods does no one any good.
 

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Then perhaps you should take some course on this stuff. For your information my business revolves around mechanical, electrical, tin, piping, and a lot of science. So if the five years I spent in school and the eight years I have been around these kinds of things means nothing than so be it. Have you ever seen a wire that has been pushed to hard for too long? I have and I can tell you the results are not that pretty. As far as instant goes, my Fluke meter for work can't even keep up with how fast a breaker will trip off and they are very fast at reading. Also I know I myself as well as others around have had their lives saved by a breaker tripping under the right circumstances. Sure if you push the limit of the breaker they are supposed to take a short time to trip, for the sake of being able to start loads such as motors and other equipment that may require large initial inrush currents. SO if you want to call any of that a falsehood go for it. Seems funny that a forum such as this always give the person with the knowledge and experience such a hard time and tells them they don't know what they are talking about, then wonder why things don't go well down the road. Makes me start to wonder why I even try to help people out when you have to put up with that kind of crap. I deal with enough "know it all" people when I goto work that give the same, at least they pay me for it. If people are truly wanting to err on the side of caution they would do well to listen to those who deal with these aspects DAILY for a living. Well OP you do what you want, it's your home, you rfamily, your stuff in it. Take the advice you find worth while and discard the rest and try to ignore those who post just to "debate".
 

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Easy bigbare....


I actually took a five year apprenticeship on this stuff, and I thought you were a tin banger by trade...? At least that's what you've suggested in the recent HVAC thread anyway. I'm not interested in a debate, but from what you've posted on this topic, I'm thinking you may be out of your area of expertise. It's not a matter of opinion anyway, but a question of fact.


FYI breakers are very slow when compared to fuses. Breakers are just convenient... Actually it's not uncommon in industrial enviroments to see upstream fuses protecting breakers.


Out of curiousity... How did you attempt to test the blow time on a breaker with your fluke...? ...or was the misuse of the meter the cause of the breaker tripping in the first place..?
 
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