[Kainan]

I have a thread opened about the 47TX which I purchased for $1500 at Tweeter but then avaholic gave some good input on reasons why I should look for a 55Txi as an alternative. The 55Txi is the same exact price at Tweeter but I think I can find it for a couple hundred cheaper at an online store if I wanted to go that route.


EDIT- I have found the 55Txi for about 300 cheaper if I buy online but I'm not sure about Pioneer's 2 year warranty if I do so.-


The main reason for getting the 55Txi was that it had the I-Link (firewire) for use with SACD. It also has a USB connection but other than that the 47TX has it beat in power and in # of connections (3 component INs and 1 Component OUT). I don't have to have the power of the 47TX but thought that it was an awesome deal since it was just marked down from $2500 to $1500. I can't even get it at a crappy internet dealer for that cheap! Anyway, I'm hoping that avaholic and others will post here and give me your input on reasons you might would take one over the other. I will be testing the 47TX tonight. I will be using this receiver primarily for DVD movie watching but I am one to want to be prepared for the future.


Thanks in advance for the comments.

 

[avaholic]

Kainan,


Per your request I'll comment in this thread. Actually I'm just going to cut and paste.

Quote:

Originally posted by avaholic Couple of things. i.Link is "firewire" BUT, it is not for connection with your PC, (though you may be able to do that as well, not sure) it is for a direct connection with a i.link capable SACD/CD or universal (SACD, DVD-Audio, CD) player. And it does so in the native format (though it will convert it to PCM for processing in the receiver). What's cool about this is that with the 55TXi you have full bass management with those sources and time alignment. Not to mention that MCACC will also work with this connection. The 49TXi ($4200 retail) currently is the only other receiver that has i.Link. Though the new 59TXi will also have it as well as Yamaha's new flagship (over $5000), Sony's 9000ES ($4000 +) and maybe Denon's new flagship. The 55TXi also has the "option" for SACD direct which no other (no conversion to PCM) receiver has yet (Not even the 49TXi), though I'm sure the 59TXi will have it. Keep in mind that with this option you will"NOT" have bass management, speaker distance, or MCACC. Still it's nice to have this option! I currently have a new Elite 59AVi universal player on order, hopefully I'll get it in Nov. to take advantage of these great features! As far as MCACC goes, I love having 2 custom options, I use one for music and one for movies. This way I can get the sound just as I like it with my speakers and room, in both situations. As far as the power and connections. There is more than enough connections for me, but you would have to make that decision based on your own needs. For power, with that small of a room, the 55TXi should be more than adequite. I have 8 ohm speakers that are easy to drive, if you have 4 ohm it might sweat a little but should still be able to handle it. I've heard of people driving Paradigm 100's with the 45TX (55TXi predessor) with no problems). Anyway, you could always add a seperate amp if needed if you move to a bigger room or think you need it! Even then, based on the MCACC, i.Link, and Hi-Bit upsampling (makes my CD collection come alive again), I think the 55TXi is a "much" better value IMHO. YMMV

Best Regards,

Patrick

 

[Kainan]

Thanks avaholoic. Most of your points seem to come from using SACD. Is there some huge advantage of using firewire for SACD instead of the regular inputs on the 47TX? At this point I'm not sure I even care about SACD since my DVD player doesn't even play them. It plays DVD-Audio but not SACD so I'm not sure I would invest in SACD unless a ton of stuff started coming out and it pushed me to buy in that format. Again, keep in mind that 90% of the time this receiver will be used for DVD movies. I don't want to say it will be for movies only because I might use it more for music in the future but right now it will be primarily used for movies.


By the way, you haven't mentioned the other THX modes that the 55Txi doesn't have. Do you consider these to be of little value?

 

[avaholic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kainan Anyway, I'm hoping that avaholic and others will post here and give me your input on reasons you might would take one over the other. Thanks in advance for the comments.

Kainan,


The 55TXi can be had much less then $1500. You have a PM


Also, I took the liberty of bringing over the last couple of posts from the other thread. Hope you don't mind. I know these decisions can be tough. You need all the input you can get!


Quote:

Originally posted by Tom Grooms I completely disagree. The 47TX is a much better unit in every way. Not that the 55 isnt good, but just look at the build quality of the 47. Hell, It weights over 60lbs $0.02

Tom,


I agree as far as power and construction, but... again the 47 does not have i.Link, custom MCACC, or Hi-Bit upsampling. So... there's no way you can utilize a i.Link player and just as importantly to me I can't manually adjust the MCACC (which I've done with the 55TXi, see earlier post). You have to settle for the auto MCACC, which don't get me wrong is really good. I just like a little more emphasis on the bass. Thus the 55TXi gives you that option.


Again, you can always add an external amp.


Again, just my opinion, you disagree, that's cool. Neither of us has to decide what to get.


Best regards,

Patrick

 

[avaholic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kainan Thanks avaholoic. Most of your points seem to come from using SACD. Is there some huge advantage of using firewire for SACD instead of the regular inputs on the 47TX?

Yes, you can use all the bass management features and MCACC with i.Link. AND it's not just for SACD. You will need a different player (one with i.Link), Pioneer makes a couple that do all (SACD, DVD-Audio, CD), Yamaha is coming out with one as well as Denon. With CDs you get near jitter free sound by using the i.Link connection, and I'm told CDs sound amazing using the Hi-Bit feature as well with i.Link. I use Hi-Bit (47TX does not have) with my current CD player (digital coax connection), and CDs sound soooo much better!


With the regular 5.1 analog inputs on the 47TX and the 55TXi you have "NO" bass management or ability to use MCACC. So the advantage of i.Link here applies to both SACD AND DVD-Audio.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kainan By the way, you haven't mentioned the other THX modes that the 55Txi doesn't have. Do you consider these to be of little value?

I only have a 5.1 setup so the movie advantage of THX 2 is gone and I only listen to CDs in stereo. And I like to listen to everything else in thier native format!


Hope this helps! Give it a couple of days you'll get lots of opinions here!


Hopefully you'll hear from the many 49Txi/55TXi and 47DVi owners (like Gordon, Dreamcatcher, etc.) who rave about the i.Link connection for all audio formats.


Best of Luck!

Patrick

 

[avaholic]

Kainan,


Just a reminder check your PMs!


Patrick

 

[Kainan]

Less than an hour and I'll be hearing this for myself. I'm in a wheelchair so I can't physically lift these things without taking a chance of dropping them. I have found the 55Txi for aroun $1200 online (as I edited in my first post) but not sure if they are authorized Pioneer seller so I will have the 2 year warranty.


I currently only have a 5.1 setup but I'm considering adding 2 more speakers. This could easily be deemed as overkill in a room that is only the size of mine (around 16' by 17' or so like I posted earlier).


Avaholic, would you still have your same opinion if you only listened to music 10% of the time?


I'm waiting for someone to come back with some great things to say about the 47TX and why I would be crazy to trade it back for the 55Txi. I hate thinking about bothering my friend again to exchange amps. Then again, I'm searching for the best sounding Receiver that is the BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK. Right now I'm planning on using the 3 component inputs for my 3 game systems so I can stop running them through the cheap Sony A/V switch (which was meant for 1 Vid, 2 Aud input). This isn't a show stopper for me by any means though as I was really leaning towards the Denon 3803 before I ran onto this 47TX at a $1000 price drop.

 

[avaholic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kainan Avaholic, would you still have your same opinion if you only listened to music 10% of the time?

Good question!


It would have to be yes. Because I love to have the ability to adjust the MCACC manually a little for both movies and music.


Plus for audio the future looks like it is going i.Link (of course one never really knows), but Sony owns it and Pioneer, Yamaha, and even Denon look to be following suite!


And for $1100, I stay with the 55TXi!


BTW: There are not alot of 47TX owners that I've seen post here. Definately not as many as 49TXi and 45TX/55TXi owners!


Best of Luck,

Patrick

 

[Gerry S]

OK here's my opinion. I like the 47tx at the price you quoted. For me firewire was not an issue as I had no intention of buying a DVD player with firewire as they still cost too much. The 47tx (or 53tx) can handle a SACD with the analog inputs and do a great job playing it back.


I like the 47tx because of the 3 component inputs (yes I am a gamer too.) But most importantly I like the fact that the amp in the 47tx has the same amp used in the flagship 49tx.


In the end I picked up a 53tx as I did not feel spending $300 on a firewire port was worth it. After all this is old technology you can find on a camera that costs

 

[avaholic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerry S OK here's my opinion. I like the 47tx at the price you quoted. For me firewire was not an issue as I had no intention of buying a DVD player with firewire as they still cost too much. The 47tx (or 53tx) can handle a SACD with the analog inputs and do a great job playing it back.

Gerry,


Good point about the DVD player, but you cannot use the bass management or MCACC with the 5.1 analog inputs. Of course most DVD players have some bass management, but not all.


Quote:

Originally posted by Gerry S I like the 47tx because of the 3 component inputs (yes I am a gamer too.) But most importantly I like the fact that the amp in the 47tx has the same amp used in the flagship 49tx.

More good points! If the extra component input is important then he should go for it. He has already stated the extra power is not an issue though.

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerry S In the end I picked up a 53tx as I did not feel spending $300 on a firewire port was worth it. After all this is old technology you can find on a camera that costs

 

[Gerry S]

Thanks for the comments Patrick. I missed the part about the power not being an issue. I would have a hard time justifying paying nearly twice the cost of the 53tx just for a third input, nicer remote, better build quality, etc. I am also still learning about the benefits of Ilink so I will defer to your analysis.


Most input I got concerning Ilink was the fact that it was more of a convenience in that you run one cable instead of 6. I wasnt aware of the bass management issue, and may have reconsidered my decision so that maybe down the road I could afford an Ilink equipped DVD player.


Could you please comment on hi-bit upsampling and what exactly that means? Thanks.

 

[avaholic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gerry S Thanks for the comments Patrick. Could you please comment on hi-bit upsampling and what exactly that means? Thanks.

I am far from an expert on these things, though I did do alot of research on it before I decided on the 55TXi.


As far as the Hi-Bit upsampling goes. It is a feature that expands the dynamic range (something close to Hi-Rez material, so they say) of the signal through a DAC that has what is referred to as "poor" oversampling (that is a VERY abbreviated definition, I'm sure someone with "MUCH" more knowledge will correct me). There is some debate as to how much benefit there really is to this feature. BUT.... all I can tell you is that with the CDs I listen to, that they are much more detailed with greater spacing and imaging! You should give it a try with your 53TX!


Anyway, maybe someone will chime in with a better explaination!


Also,

You could also do a Google search on it. There is a 6 page Stereophile document on it somewhere!


Best Regards,

Patrick

 

[DanielSmi]

The 47TX is THX ULTRA2 certified which means it has more processing modes like THX ULTRA2 and THX MusicMode. Also there is a THX setup menu in the OSD in which you can turn on boundary gain compensation and set how far apart your rear surrounds are from EACH OTHER not how far they are from your listening position doing so will change how the rear surrounds are processed in THX ULTRA2 and THX MusicMode. THX ULTRA2 is better for 5.1 sources than THX-EX it provides a better rear surround soundstage and THX MusicMode puts more of an emphasis on the rear surrounds and sortof uses the side surrounds for ambience with 5.1 music.


Daniel Smith

 

[avaholic]

Quote:

Originally posted by DanielSmi The 47TX is THX ULTRA2 certified which means it has more processing modes like THX ULTRA2 and THX MusicMode. Also there is a THX setup menu in the OSD in which you can turn on boundary gain compensation and set how far apart your rear surrounds are from EACH OTHER not how far they are from your listening position doing so will change how the rear surrounds are processed in THX ULTRA2 and THX MusicMode. THX ULTRA2 is better for 5.1 sources than THX-EX it provides a better rear surround soundstage and THX MusicMode puts more of an emphasis on the rear surrounds and sortof uses the side surrounds for ambience with 5.1 music. Daniel Smith

Daniel,


All true of course! But, was a non-factor for my own personal use, as the other features of the 55TXi were much more important to me than THX Ultra 2 processing. Especially custom MCACC and i.Link, wouldn't want to own my 55TXi if it did not have them!


But, I'm very glad you pointed these out for Kainan. It may be just what he wants. If so, sorry I downplayed the THX Ultra 2. Just goes to show you that it's good to have different perspectives


BTW, Daniel don't you own the 49TXi, which has the "other" features the 47TX does not have?


Best Regards,

Patrick

 

[Kainan]

Man, great stuff here guys. I got this baby hooked up last night (47TX) and really like the setup since it sets up for the exact distance of each speaker from your position, their strength, etc. Plus, I like that you can alter the settings after they are done. For example it recognized all of my speakers as large and the right main was adjusted up a full db over the left main. These have some bass but not a ton since they are just Boston 795 (think that is the model but they just have 2 5" speakers in a tall standing speaker). Anyway, when testing it out the right speaker would pop a little from pushing too much bass. I simply went back into the menu and shifted the power down by 1/2 a db on that speaker and it fixed it. I really liked this but I am sure that the 55Txi has the same thing. Well, I'll be glad to hear other opinions. Thanks!

 

[Spiffy2]

I bought the 47TX as well because of the closeout. Sure, I would have liked the other features mentioned on the other model, but I had to stay within a budget as well as get enough power. Yes, you could always add an amp to the other reciever, but then you have added on an additional cost that puts it beyond the price range of the 47tx.

 

[Kainan]

Actually, as I might have noted above, I can get the 55Txi online for $1100 and the 47TX plus tax was over $1600. I'm thinking with that $500 I could get a couple of back surrounds to add and make a 7.1 system. Decisions, decisions. The 47TX sounds sweet for sure.

 

[mcampo]

I just purchased a Pioneer vsx-47tx. I'm having a problem with the auto eq on the center channel. It seems to be eqing all the midrange out of the center speaker (KEF Q95): 125hz= -7db, 250hz= -5.5db, and 500hz= -2db. Consequently, the voices from the center sound thin and tinny. All other channels seem "normal" and are auto programed very close to 0.0.


The salesman at Tweeter suggested I exchange it for another unit.


Am I doing something wrong? Is there something wrong with the unit? Any and all comments will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Kainan]

I'm not sure about the numbers in khz or anything but I know that I let mine do the auto setup and the center channel sounds perfect. It sounds awesome all the way around because I'm getting a lot more bass out of all of my speakers now than before. I'll try to pay closer attention but I watched all of Blade 2 checking out the receiver today and didn't notice anything sounding funny for a second. If you can explain what the #s should be then I'll be glad to check mine. Where do you stand on the 47TX vs 55TXi (if the center worked right)? Not a ton of opinions on these.

 

[mcampo]

My center channel sounded awful after the auto setup. I don't know what the setting should be. That's auto eq's job. But I do know that its not supposed suck the life out of any channel. Like I said, the sound coming out of the center was thin and tinny and nasally and no matter how many times I ran the eq, it came out the same. And there is no manual adjustment (like there is on the Yamaha 2400). I believe the 55tx eq may be user adjustable.


I would appreciate it if you could check and see what setting yours chose for the frequencies of 125Hz, 250Hz, and 500Hz on the center channel only.


I called Pioneer Customer Service to ask about this problem and the service person told me that they had received other calls about this. But he could not give me any insight as to why this was happening (he didn't seem to know much about the products either). The good folks at Tweeter were puzzled about this also and offered to replace it with another unit but I declined and returned it for a refund.


I think I'll wait and see what Yamaha comes up with on the 3400(the guys at Tweeter told me that a step up from the 2400 was just around the corner) or perhaps what Denon has in store for 2004.


Any one have a scoop on what may be new from Denon in January or February (sorry, I don't mean to hijack this thread)


BTW, I'll echo avaholic's thoughts on 47 vs 55. 47 is built better and has decent power over the 55 but not much in the way of features. If the 55 has user adjustable eq that would be a big plus. I.link is a nice feature but I'm not sure where the whole multi channel music thing is headed right now or if it will even survive.