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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I took back the 47TX that I had and now I have tried setting up using the MCACC with the 55Txi but I am not sure if I should be getting these settings. I got to looking because my front right speaker has too much bass compared to the right. Also, the 47TX always recognized my Boston VR12 Center as LARGE yet the 55Txi wants to register it as small. This is about as big of a center channel as most people have and I liked the sound of the 47TX when it was on large so I'm manually changing it to large after the auto setup on the 55Txi. Anyway, here are the settings for each speaker for the perspective Hz and Khz range.


Left- 12ft away

63Hz- (-2.0)

125Hz- (-0.5)

250Hz- (-2.5)

4Khz- (+ 0.5)

11.3Khz- (-1.0)


Center-

63Hz- (--- when set to small but not sure what to change to on Large)

125Hz- (-1.5)

250Hz- (-2.0)

4Khz- (-1.0)

11.3Khz- (+0.5)


Right- 12.5 feet away and .5 db higher than the right in power.

63Hz- (+5.0) Notice the Left at a Negative 2.0 and Right at Positive 5.0

125Hz- (-3.0)

250Hz- (-3.5)

4Khz- (-1.0)

11.3Khz- (-2.0)


Surround Right

63Hz- (+4.5)

125Hz- (+0.5)

250Hz- (-3.5)

4Khz- (-0.5)

11.3Khz- (+1.0)


Surround Left

63Hz- (+0.5)

125Hz- (=4.5)

250Hz- (-3.5)

4Khz- (+1.0)

11.3Khz- (+0.5)




Any insight would be appreciated. I'm really confused as to why I have that big difference between the right and left front speakers which obviously seems wrong because it makes the bass so high that it will pop in certain test areas which I used setting up with the 47TX. With the 47TX I had to simply cut down the power to the right by .5db and it made it sound perfect but I cut the power way down on the right with the 55Txi and still had popping during the test area (Lost In Space when the words sweep across the screen).
 

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Kainan:


I have found that very minute changes in both mic and speaker positions make differences in MCACC results. I tend to run a setup and then listen to it for a while; if I like it I record the values and use it again later. You don't say if your results are from more than one session...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
John,


I ran 2 or 3 sessions with very similar results. At first I thought it was due to me leaving the component cabinet door open and partially blocking the right main speaker (making it think it needed to be louder or something) but the results were the same the next time around. That seems pretty drastic on the 63hz zone from the right and left speaker.

I've got bigger problems right now though. I can't get any bass out of my sub during DVD playback. I've tried my regular DVD as well as my Xbox for a DVD player with the same results (NO bass at all from the sub). I thought maybe it was the sub but when I run the setup options on the receiver I can select the sub and crank the DBs on up and hear the sub thunder. I've been swapping wires and pressing buttons for an hour and a half now. Ugh... if the other receiver hadn't been working so beautifully before I boxed it back up then this wouldn't bother me so bad. The receiver recognizes the sub in the setup with no problem but playing DVDs gets me no sub whatsoever. Man, I've had enough for the night so I'll leave it until the morning. I know it isn't the DVD player. Oh, I also bought an optical to coaxial converter because this receiver on has two optical inputs in the back and the thing doesn't work. That was my first problem but I just bypassed that problem for now by concentrating on the two optical inputs that I have and plugging in what I need to them. So far my experience with the 55Txi has been all negative. :(
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Kainan
I took back the 47TX that I had and now I have tried setting up using the MCACC with the 55Txi but I am not sure if I should be getting these settings. I got to looking because my front right speaker has too much bass compared to the right. Also, the 47TX always recognized my Boston VR12 Center as LARGE yet the 55Txi wants to register it as small. This is about as big of a center channel as most people have and I liked the sound of the 47TX when it was on large so I'm manually changing it to large after the auto setup on the 55Txi.


With the 47TX I had to simply cut down the power to the right by .5db and it made it sound perfect but I cut the power way down on the right with the 55Txi and still had popping during the test area (Lost In Space when the words sweep across the screen).
Kainan,


Interesting! First thing You should make sure the Mic. is facing up, they don't make that clear in the manual. Second do you have a CD with test tones and a SPL meter so you can check the measurements? If so I would run a check without the MCACC first and then with it.


Most rooms have varing degrees of low freq. problems that are caused by standing waves in rooms. It is not uncommon for you to have a large dip or rise in the 63Hz area. In fact is one of your speakers closer to a side wall?

I have about a 5dB difference at the 125Hz setting (one of my speakers is much closer to a side wall), but to me it sounds much better then if I brought the two channels closer together at that freq.


I'm not to sure about the "pop" your hearing (I usually relate pop, to higher freq.), but I would not rely on the intro of a movie to get the low Freq. to sound just right. I'd get a test CD (Delos makes a good one) and a SPL meter (Radio Shack), and fine tune it that way, along with some good music.


Best Regards,

Patrick
 

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Kainan,


Regarding to the sub woofer output's issue, did you check the Bass Peak Level correctly?? This option is under Expert mode. You need to either set it -20db or select the Cancel Bass Peak Limit. Good luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the response to this. It was the Bass Peak Level. Man I wish I would have figured that out an hour earlier last night but I'm glad you guys pointed out the problem. When I went to Bass Peak Level I think I chose 80hz because it was like a default for THX or something. Anyway, that problem is solved. I'm still uncertain about the large difference in the 63Hz zone between the left and right speakers. The right speaker is close to the component cabinet so maybe it could be giving it a tad more boom but I wouldn't think it would be that much more. Plus, like I stated earlier, the 47TX didn't have this problem at all as it matched them pretty close. I guess I'll just have to make the manual change but it doesn't leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy when it consistently shows that difference when the 47TX didn't. This thing just got off on the wrong foot. I was really close to keeping the 47TX because it had one extra optical and all the component video inputs but decided it was worth the change to save the money and have the firewire that might get used in the future. Anyway, the optical to coxial converter that I bought from parts express doesn't work and I can't run 2 optical splitters because my Sat Receiver (DTC-100) constatly puts out an optical signal even if it is off. I tried linking two splitters to get a total of 3 devices for one optical in but that didn't work either. Evidently that one extra split is just too much. Now I have to call up the guys at Parts Express and hope a return won't be much of a problem. Lastly, I still don't know why the 55Txi insist on saying my center is small when the 47TX said large. This is a center with 2 X 5 1/4" and tweeter which has a lot of bass to it but evidently not enough for the liking of the 55Txi while the others somehow manage. Ok, so this leads to the question of what I put the settings at AFTER I switch the center to large instead of small? Do I mimic the settings of one of the front mains?


If you guys have anymore suggestions I would be glad to read them and I appreciate all the help so far.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Kainan
Lastly, I still don't know why the 55Txi insist on saying my center is small when the 47TX said large. This is a center with 2 X 5 1/4" and tweeter which has a lot of bass to it but evidently not enough for the liking of the 55Txi while the others somehow manage. Ok, so this leads to the question of what I put the settings at AFTER I switch the center to large instead of small? Do I mimic the settings of one of the front mains?


If you guys have anymore suggestions I would be glad to read them and I appreciate all the help so far.
Kainan,


I have a center (Phase Tech, Teatro 6.5 with 2 x 5 1/4" woofers) that also has excellent low freq. response, at least for a center (down to about 56Hz). But there is no way I'd want to have it set to large. There can be alot of low freq. info in the center channel. So unless yours are rated down to 20Hz or 30Hz, (and can actually do it), I would definately not set the center to large.

BTW: it sets mine to small too, but it sounds great and I would never consider running it as large!


My .02 ;) YMMV!

Best Regards,

Patrick
 

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K,


If you have any differences between the two speaker placements (left/right, cabinet, seating off center) it is VERY possible that you have a standing wave, or dead spot or mode/hot spot for 63 Hz. I use a BFD 24 band parametric eq and checking with an spl meter setting it up...well moving 3 to 4 inches can make a 6 dB difference. If you don't want to correct for this at your listening position, just adjust it back off, or run all speakers as small


My center channel has 3X 5 1/4" plus two tweeters and I still run it on small, in fact I run all my speaker in small with 80 Hz cutoff and redirect everything to the sub. It is much easier to get proper freqency response this way.


As far as the optical situation...I feel for you, it is by far the biggest issue I have with the mid level elites.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hmm.... I think one reason I thought it was best to set the center to large was that I liked the way it sounded when the 47TX automatically set it to large. It set it that way so I assumed it should be that way and was disgruntled when the 55Txi showed differently.


I guess maybe I'm wondering just how much low end gets cut off when you set the speakers to small. For some reason I have this thought in my head of the receiver treating them like they are those tiny Bose speakers that have nothing but treble. My rear speakers have a 6 1/2" speaker and I like hearing the bass in the rear instead of just the front so I liked that from the beginning. The thing is that maybe I'm thinking too much of what the receiver will take away when going from Large to Small. Just how much difference is there?


When it comes to the dead spot or whatever is causing the problem with the right speaker I still go back to thinking "Why didn't the 47TX have the same problem when doing an auto setup?" It really isn't a huge thing to make the adjustment to be like the left speaker but it through me off a little to see the settings off.
 

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Ask yourself this Kainan, is your subwoofer more capable of producing bass than your center, mains, and surrounds? In 99% of cases, the answer is a resounding YES! For the 1% (poindexter, I'm thinking of you :D), you'd run the speakers as large, but for the other 99% of us, an all small suboofer=yes is the best setup. It relieves the receiver from having to power the bass notes (bass takes gobs of power to produce), and cleans up the midrange & highs.


Dolby Digital and DTS both have a dedicated .1 subwoofer channel, true, but they are also require 20Hz-20KHz on ALL channels! Very, few speakers can hit 20Hz at all, and fewer yet are flat to 20Hz. Movies today are mixed rather aggressively, and you are much better off by running the speakers as small and sub = yes because that in effect, makes your speakers all flat to 20Hz due to bass management (flat to 20 assuming you have a capable subwoofer). The receiver doesn't "take anything away" when you change from large to small. In fact, you gain a lot with a small setting, as all the bass that was being thrown at inferior speakers (not saying your speakers are bad, but compared to a subwoofer, nearly all speakers are inferior when it comes to bass reproduction) is now going to a capable speaker that can actually play it...


Sorny
 

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Sorny is exactly right. Also remember, small is what activates the crossover, so when on small it just means that a high pass xover is activated for those speakers, if you choose the thx standard 80 Hz, there is still a sizable chunk of midbass going to your speakers. Even if you had 10" drivers in your mains it is still a good idea. If you set the speaker to small, it doesn't mean it is treating it as treble only. However, if you set it to large, the bass doesn't get redirected for that channel and you can really miss out. If you set everything to large you would only get bass for actually coded .1 LFE....so bass would actually sound much weaker. (there may be a "both" setting trapped somewhere)


My suggestion: set everything to small, if you have good speakers with decent bass response, set the xover to 80hz, if some are a little lacking...maybe higher and see how it sounds.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ptaaty
. Even if you had 10" drivers in your mains it is still a good idea. If you set the speaker to small, it doesn't mean it is treating it as treble only.



(there may be a "both" setting trapped somewhere)

Well, I have 10" drivers in my mains (powered via internal servo amp) with in-room response down to 25Hz -3dB. So I use them a well as my external sub for movies (and use only the built-ins for music, as it sounds much better in my room). I get ALOT more room filling bass with movie tracks with all subs on. I realize though that I'm in the minority, and for most, it's wise to do exactly as you say ptaaty! YMMV ;)


Best Regards,

Patrick
 

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Patrick,


You mentioned several times about the custom setting in the 55TX and that the 47TX does not have this feature. I have a 45TX and it has the custom option. However; the only paramter that I can adjust in the Custom mode is the 7 band equalization. What about the xover frequency and distance?? What is the best way to achieve the below preferences without going to Set up menu each time?


** Setting 1: I listen to Music in Stereo and want to set the 2 front speakers to large (Snell E IV which has an 8 in woofer)


** Setting 2: I am watching TV or movie and want all speakers to be set to Small so the low frequecy is sent to the Sub


Appreciate your and other members's advice on this



Thanks
 

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jtns, I believe you'd want to run your music sources into analog inputs and choose "direct" instead of Stereo; that should allow you to have all small sub=yes chosen for everything except the direct setting (again, as long as your music sources come in over analog inputs).


Sorny
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jtns
Patrick,


You mentioned several times about the custom setting in the 55TX and that the 47TX does not have this feature. I have a 45TX and it has the custom option. However; the only paramter that I can adjust in the Custom mode is the 7 band equalization. What about the xover frequency and distance?? What is the best way to achieve the below preferences without going to Set up menu each time?


** Setting 1: I listen to Music in Stereo and want to set the 2 front speakers to large (Snell E IV which has an 8 in woofer)


** Setting 2: I am watching TV or movie and want all speakers to be set to Small so the low frequecy is sent to the Sub


Appreciate your and other members's advice on this



Thanks
jtns,


With custom MCACC you can't adjust anything but the EQ. Everything else is the same. I have built-in subs in my mains so I always keep them set to large, and use the custom settings to boost the bass and midbass freq. for both music (custom 1), and even more bass for movies (custom 2). Other than that if you want to run your mains "small" for movies, the only choice you have is using the 'direct mode" for music, this of course defeats your MCACC.


Otherwise you have to go into the menu and change the speaker settings. There is one other option, which could work if you are willing to buy another remote. With the MX-500 or MX-700, along with many others that have Macro ability. You can have a macro set up to change your speaker settings for music listening and then set up a different macro for movies. That way you would not have to go into the menu screen (I have my mon. out on my 55TXi hooked up to a different input on my TV, so I don't have to see it when changing menu settings or running macros) to change it.


Hope this helps!


Best Regards,

Patrick
 

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You may be able to do the macros with the 55txi remote as well. I would think so as the 53tx remote has macros...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ptaaty
You may be able to do the macros with the 55txi remote as well. I would think so as the 53tx remote has macros...
Yes, but I think it only has a max of 5 steps in the macros, and are used mostly for turning equipment on. To change settings for the speakers it will take a few more steps than that! Does the 53TX have more macro abilty?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Man, I don't look at this thread for a few days and then come back to see it still going.


Thanks for painting a clearer picture for me on how things work and the benefits of setting speakers to small. My question would be, what if you like to have some bass out of your rears which are 6 1/2" rear speakers? I guess I'm thinking too drastic when I think about setting something to small. Like I said, I have this vision of the receiver treating the speakers like they are those tiny Bose cubes with no bass capability whatsoever. So, if I set all speakers to small I should still receive enough bass (by 6 1/2" speaker standers) to my rear on main speakers right? One other thing. I have a VR2000 Boston 12" Sub with 300W amp. On the setup directions it tells me to turn the volume UP. Well, UP can mean WAY UP, kind of up, up a little, and all sorts of things. I was worried about it hot setting it right so I set my sub volume to full up. This left the MCACC to set the power to this speaker as low as it would go. Instead of turning it down and running it all back over again I just turned the sub down and kept turning it down until it sounded right. Does this sound like a good way to do it?


Lastly, some have complained about the YPAO (sp?) of the Yamaha not being that accurate and disliking it after a bit of time and testing. How do you guys feel about these receivers now that you've had them for a while? I'm a bit disappointed that I have that one funky problem.
 
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