AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 52 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi. I sent Shawn an email earlier today and received a prompt answer. The text is given below. I am giving this info only as evidence that Shawn is returning emails, and prefer that you do not pick apart his response too much, as it is not really new information. I know my question was a softball, but i thought a simple question might receive a simple answer.


Jeff


beginning of email text (Shawns response first)

-----------------------------------------------------

Jeff,


I'm definitely recommending that folks hold on because the manufacturing

operation is there and the product is real. The problem is that due to one

business partner retracting their commitment, the assembly contractor is

stalling until we get a replacement commitment. It's that simple of a

situation, although not necessarily simple to solve. We now have a new

partner going through due diligence to get things going and I expect to get

some releases started this week.


Kind regards,


Shawn


----- Original Message -----

From: "Jeff T. Streitz" <[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>

Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 10:58 AM

Subject: quick question



> Hi Shawn

>

> I am waiting on the P752, but also ordered a P561. Should I bail out on

> the P561, given the current state of production, or are you recommending

> that people hang on a little longer?

>

> Jeff Streitz

> Iowa City, IA

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------

end of email text
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
I also recieved a prompt response from Shawn regarding my P561 order a week or so ago, and got a sense that he is trying his best to bring the Panamorph lenses to market as soon as possible despite several setbacks.


-Dean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,587 Posts
I have no real doubt that the P561 will arrive.

I guess the one benefit, is that I am fully enjoying my P752 while the P561 gets worked out.

Don't let anyone tell you its easy to manufacture, let alone bring a new product to market. Many years ago I was a partner in a manufacturing business (not audio or video) and I absolutely could tell you some horror stories of the dramas we had on a day to day basis.


What a 5yr nightmare. No matter how hard we tried or what happened almost nothing ran right, or for that matter on time.


Even though it was over 10 yrs ago, I still quiver at the thought of all the explaining I had to do to annoyed clients. On top of all that we made absolutely no money and got early gray hair from all that stress and worry.

I guess thats why I am patient with these constant new a/v launch delays.


DavidW


[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 10-01-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
492 Posts
Jeffrey

Thanks for the update. I think you are selling yourself short in terms of your question being a "softball"I think it was fair and too the point and didn't take a confrontational approach.


As some one who has paid for a Panamorph and is in the third pre-buy< I share the legitimate concerns of those in a similar situation to mine


I think we all realize that the pejorative use of this being a "scam" is not correct. Scams don't result in the production of a product, let alone one that has received positive reviews from people like Mr Wallis et al. I imagine Shawn is grappling with the nemesis of many businesses, undercapitalization.


My goal is getting the product. At least at this point my take is that too much bad mouthing now will only scare away potential investors and reduce my chances of accomplishing that goal. I certainly understand and share others frustrations.


------------------

tuckerdog
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by michael goldman:


I think we all realize that the pejorative use of this being a "scam" is not correct. Scams don't result in the production of a product
Ponzi scams do.


While I don't believe that Cygnus is operating a Ponzi scam, nor do I believe the intent was EVER to defraud anyone...


it *appears* that further lenses will not ship until Cygnus secures another investor, or receives more pre-orders. If this is the case, and Cygnus needs further funds to produce units to be delivered to buyers who have already paid, then Cygnus is in a very precarious position indeed. As are all of the pre-buyers who have not received their lenses yet.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
719 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by rickforrest:


it *appears* that further lenses will not ship until Cygnus secures another investor, or receives more pre-orders



Rick. I really don't want to put myself in a position of defending Cygnus. Indeed, it would be very difficult or impossible to defend many of their decisions over the past year. I must, however say that I believe it is quite difficult to conclude what you have in the above quote given the information we all have as members of this Forum. It is plausible that the current delays are due to exactly what Shawn has stated.


Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
340 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:


I must, however say that I believe it is quite difficult to conclude what you have in the above quote given the information we all have as members of this Forum. It is plausible that the current delays are due to exactly what Shawn has stated.
Jeff,


I'm trying to figure out what you think it is that Shawn stated. He said that a "business partner" retracted their committment. The fact that he used the word "business" implies funding. A new partner is "going through due diligence". Who would have to do this other than someone who was providing money? I think it is very obvious to most forum members what is going on here. I, for one, am hoping that this "new partner" comes through. I still very much want my Panamorph.


- Chris

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,261 Posts
Jeffrey


It depends on your standard of proof.


I agree with their assesment, and also with your sentiment.


The issue possibly could be something else, but after taking Shawns comments from the last few days as a whole, it is very reasonable to believe the commitment reneged upon is investment. I will paraphrase from memory, but I believe I am on track. Someone please kindly correct me if I am too far off base on anything...


1. One partner backed out of a commitment after fallout from Sept 11. (Stock market plunged? Makes it a good time to hold, rather than sell, or buy back in if you have just sold... That is just a guess, but more people were affected by the financial repercussions than any other aspect. By straight probability that is "probably" what affected his partner. My heart continues to go out to all who were affected more directly than this, but that is another issue...)


2. The assembler stopped production due to the loss of this other partner, even though he has all the parts needed to complete a good sized batch of lenses. (Why would an assembler stop production if he had all the parts and expected to be paid?)


3. Due diligence excercise of the new partner, explained by Chris above.


4. Shawn stated that the product is real and the manufacturing is set to go. Reviews/tours back him up on this one. What else could be holding him up?


I still think he has a good chance of finding another investor. It seems like everything else is set to go.


It might not be the most helpful thing to have a bunch of people crying about the pre-orders to fill, but it certainly says something about pent-up demand for the product. We have waited so long and continue to wait. That, I think this is the loudest message that an investor would hear. Many of us continue to hold our place in line to get these lenses.


We tend to forget that we are just a small part of the market. Even then, it is not completely tapped. I was reading the forum regularly for about eight or nine months when I first read the panamorph posts. I bet there are others who visit other areas, who do not even know what a panamorph is.


Shawn has some strong selling points in this product. He is in a tough, but not impossible, position.


In closing, the assumption that he needs funding is probably pretty good, IMHO. That doesn't mean that your sentiment is mis-placed.


We are hoping he comes through, but believe that the nature of his challenge is financial. I personally feel a little better with that than I would if this were a mechanical problem of some kind. I personally sent an email to cancel my order, and then retracted it when there were posts of successful "matings" with my PJ and the panamorph. Finding another investor is not as difficult a problem as trying to make a lens do something it won't. His product works. Hopefully he can find the investor to make this project turn the corner.


As mentioned elsewhere in the forum, sufficient capitalization is a very common challenge for someone developing a new product.


Best Regards,

Doug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
Yup, that's the ticket. You guys nailed it.


I was thinking it was a manufacturing issue. But after re-reading Shawn's message, your logic makes perfect sense.


Complete speculation but you have to wonder if the business partner is Stewart Filmscreen.


--Les
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,574 Posts
The window for this product in the marketplace may be closing.


The window began with anamorphic DVD's, and is ending with the introduction of 16X9 projectors.


Most of the new projectors now being considered for HT purposes are 16X9. The Panamorph is of limited use for these systems (unless you have a suitable scaler and can use the Panamorph for 235 DVD's).


If the Panamorph is not readily available by Jan 2002, I think the window will have closed.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,160 Posts
I disagree that the market window for 16:9, or even the 2.35:1 lenses will be closing anytime soon.


The new 16:9 projectors are indeed good products for HT use, but overall, HT specific projectors are a tiny proportion compared to the much larger business FPTV market, which uses native 4:3 panel FPTVs.


These standard 4:3 format business FPTVs will remain competitive for HT use by virtue of higher resolution, brightness, small size, and lower cost of many business models.


And I don't really see the computer market moving to support 16:9 format screens as a new standard for many reasons (like web pages for one), and so I don't see the traditional 4:3 PC display format changing any time soon.


And until then, supporting presentations of 16:9 enahnced DVDs and HD material on 4:3 FPTVs are still best served with anamorphic lenses.


-Dean.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,129 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by rlsmith:

The window for this product in the marketplace may be closing.
Not even close. I intentionally purchased a projector (VT540) that can vertically stretch an HDTV signal. 16:9 projectors are also being produced with a vertical stretch capability. That means that they can benefit from an anamorphic lens without an external scaler for 2.35:1 material (a very popular AR). Further, projectors continue to become more affordable to more people. As more people view FP technology as a feasible part of the rapidly growing home theater market, the market for the anamorphic lenses itself grows. The window for anamorphic lenses is just beginning to open.



------------------

The button is labeled "Play", not "Pay". STOP the MPAA!

Our Silent Angels

Please visit The Manny Page!



[This message has been edited by Man E (edited 10-02-2001).]
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,631 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by shodoug:
In closing, the assumption that he needs funding is probably pretty good, IMHO. That doesn't mean that your sentiment is mis-placed.


We are hoping he comes through, but believe that the nature of his challenge is financial. I personally feel a little better with that than I would if this were a mechanical problem of some kind.


...


Best Regards,

Doug
Heh, I pretty much made that connection a month ago but got taken to task for "getting off track" by Alan. Eh.
http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/008664.html


I still haven't bothered with a D&B. Anyone care to do so? I bet it doesn't say good things. I also suspect that the missing partner is Stewart.


Given that Thumper is waaaay ahead on the list for a pannie than I am and hasn't come close to getting one, I'm getting close to the point where I'm going to ask for a refund regardless of the benefits of a pannie because I'm starting to doubt I'll ever see one.


Nigel
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
We need input from Shawn. It has been mentioned before, but I'll say it again - if everyone asks for a refund then this thing is more than likely over. Should we put the Panamorph out of its misery now or hang in. I think the chances of me obtaining a Panamorph as of now are pretty slim. I think the chances of getting a refund are zero. I'll hang in and hope that Shawn can pull this thing off!


I had a debate with myself before I ordered - in retrospect I should have been more cautious, however, if we always standback and wait we never do anything - I guess I am a capitalist at heart.


Cheers,


Grant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
Hold out or get a refund.....that is the question.


I can tell you, the Panamorph is a real product that works wonderfully. I can't wait to get mine.


But, with all the delays, should we keep waiting? Shawn has obviously had some uncontrollable delays and the blast to the economy, I am sure, has scared some partners/suppliers. Either way, if you ask for a refund, you ensure that you will not get a panamorph...at least at the $$ you paid. Maybe later at $2000...but not at the sub $1000 prices.


Shawn is an honest guy, who is doing everything he can to get the manufacturing back on track. And I for one, hope he is spending more time doing that than answering questions on the forum.


I think a lot will happen over the next 30 days. I personally, am going to wait.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,227 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
599 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Phat Phreddy:
I dont know about you guys but I bought in with VISA....


No matter what happens I get my investment back and so for this reason I see it as a no brainer...

Better check the fine print. Visa usually only allows you to challenge a charge within 60 days. Now, that's what the fine print says. They may, at their discretion, allow you to challenge a charge later than that.


 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,749 Posts
I've already got my money back but if I didn't I would at least want to see a financial statement from Cygnus before I continued to invest in this company. How much money has been collected by Cygnus? Where has it gone? If I knew most of it had gone toward Inventory & Production and not Salaries I would be more inclined to hang on.


I also disagree about the Pany remaining at the $2M level. If these things ever deliver in quantity there will be some on the used market for under $1M, if they don't deliver you've lost your money anyway. With the downturn in the economy and the outlook bleak the market for the Pany is currently shrinking as is the market for many high end luxuries.
 
1 - 20 of 52 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top