[Stoopalini]

I made the jump to separates few years back by adding outboard amplifiers to my receiver, and was really impressed with the quality increase. Well, fast forward a couple of years, and after my Denon receiver failed on me, I got out my old Yamaha RX-V795 and have been using it as the processor for a little over a year now. Unfortunately it's so old, I'm having to use the TV for the video switching.


So I'm at the point where I want to replace it, and am considering going with the Emotiva stuff.


Right now, I have 3 amplifiers:

• Carver A-400x Powering center and sub
• Adcom GFA-545 Powering rears
• Mitsubishi DA-A110 Powering front mains

The speakers are 4 NHT Super Ones with the matching NHT Super Center, so I don't need a whole lot of power here.

Sub is a large, home built Sonotube sub with a dual voice coil Adire Audio Shiva driver.


I'm debating selling two of the amplifiers and keeping one for the sub; then getting the UMC-200 and UAP-500 (UAP-700 if I decide to add surround backs). If I decide to do this, which of the 3 amps would be best for subwoofer duty? I think the specs of the Carver are the best on paper, but the Mitsubishi just looks impressive, and it's extremely heavy. Unfortunately I don't know a whole lot about vintage amps.


The other question I have is how will the Emotiva UAP amp stack up against what I have now, or am I over thinking this and not notice much of a difference either way with only having NHT superones?


And of course, if there are any other options I should consider over the Emotiva, I'm all ears.

 

[cwt]

Hi Stoopalini ; since you have efficient speakers you could also consider a fusion 8100 which is the equivalent of a umc200 +7ch power amp and has pre outs for future power amps so you can gauge if you need more for a large room say

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/av-receivers/products/fusion-8100


Have used a umc200 myself and only switched for hdmi config reasons and price so you're choice

I would keep the carver for your passive sub as it has

Quote:
500watts in mono block mode

some speaker cone control there ... the other 2 afaik cant be bridged from what i read . Good luck

 

[Stoopalini]

Thanks for the input Colin. I did see the new 8100, and am considering it as well. Just not sure the 65wpc will do well on the NHTs, or if the 80wpc rating of the UAP would be better suited. still trying to decide.


The room is my central living room with a built-in (we want to remove the built in, but it's not an option right now). It's big, and open at the rear. I would prefer to have better/larger floor standing speakers, but that will have to wait until the kids are a bit older. The NHTs are mounted high enough up to be out of reach of little hands

The pic shows rear side speakers, but they are not mounted (yet). This was me planning where to place them.

The other piece of this is the heat being generated in my component cabinet. I have my source components and receiver in a cabinet, over the TV, which has glass doors. I've vented the cabinet with a top mounted exhaust fan, but even with the Yamaha using only pre-outs, it's gets fairly hot; especially when the PlayStation 3 is turned on. I have the amps installed in a cabinet under the TV, which has cloth doors, so there's plenty of airflow down there. I know the 8100 is fairly new so there's not a whole lot of information out there yet. Not sure if it will generate a significant amount of heat when using the internal amps, or when using only pre-outs.


Thanks as well for the input on the Carver. It is rated 200wpc @ 8ohm, 300wpc @ 4ohm, and 500w bridged mono (I assume 8ohm?). My sub has 2 coils @ 8ohms each. So I could run 300w into each coil hooked up in stereo mode, or I suppose I could parallel the coils and run them into bridged mode; although I'm not sure if the Carver can handle a 4ohm load in bridged mode, or what the output would be in this case. This would, in theory, drive each side with a 2ohm load, correct? I can't find anything on the Carver which tells me if the amp can handle this.


Everything I read about the Emotiva stuff tells me it will be fine for what I'm looking to do. We don't need a lot of the extra features of a main stream receiver, just something which is quality and produces good sound. Both me and my wife are musicians, so we appreciate clean, non-fatiguing sound, from the system; and it seems like the Emotiva gear will give us that.

 

[cwt]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoopalini  /t/1523543/emotiva-umc-200-upa-500-700-as-an-upgrade-option#post_24511193


Thanks for the input Colin. I did see the new 8100, and am considering it as well. Just not sure the 65wpc will do well on the NHTs, or if the 80wpc rating of the UAP would be better suited. still trying to decide.


Thanks as well for the input on the Carver. It is rated 200wpc @ 8ohm, 300wpc @ 4ohm, and 500w bridged mono (I assume 8ohm?). My sub has 2 coils @ 8ohms each. So I could run 300w into each coil hooked up in stereo mode, or I suppose I could parallel the coils and run them into bridged mode; although I'm not sure if the Carver can handle a 4ohm load in bridged mode, or what the output would be in this case. This would, in theory, drive each side with a 2ohm load, correct? I can't find anything on the Carver which tells me if the amp can handle this.

I wouldn't consider the extra 15w/ch at all frankly ; the db scale is logarithmic and that's barely perceptible . The fusion is basically a sherbourn 8100 with a few extra features 'makeover ' and the spec is a bit of an anomaly [ its marketing possibly ] Here's a review to consider -

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/sherbourn-sr-8100-receiver


I don't think Ide be game to parallel the subs voice coils as this would as you say 1/2 the subs impedance . This quote refers to 2 channel but I think it extrapolates well

Another factor is impedance plots are usually full of peaks and dips as frequency alters and you have home made so maybe an unknown quantity ?

Quote:
When we bridge an amplifier we actually stack the two channels one on top of each other. Not physically but electronically. What we do is to ask one channel to handle the positive side of a waveform and then the other channel to handle the negative side. This sounds rather confusing so let's show an example. We have a 100w/ch amplifier at 4 ohms which doubles power into 2 ohms. The power supply rails are +/-33v (33 peak x 0.7071 = 23.33 volts RMS). We require that we deliver 20 volts into our 4 or 2 ohm load. So the 23.33 is fine as we have some losses in the output stages due to output device saturation volt drops. The specification of this amplifier in bridge mode would read as follows: 200 watt mono into 8 ohms and 400 watt mono into 4 ohms. Look at these numbers carefully and they are not magic. The 200 watt 8 ohm is derived from the 100+100 at 4 ohm and the 400 watt 4 ohm from the 200+200 at 2 ohm specifications.


What has happened is that the load impedance "seen" by each of the two channels in bridged mode is 50% of the total load impedance. So an 8 ohm load in bridge equals a 4 ohm load per channel in two channel mode and a 4 ohm load in bridge equals a 2 ohms load per channel in two channel mode. Since our amplifier is only rated down to 2 ohms per channel, it CAN ONLY drive a 4 ohm load in bridge mode.

 

[Stoopalini]

Thanks again Colin.


A little background on the sub: I built it back in 2001, and was very precise on using the TS paramaters of the sub and designing the enclosure appropriately with the LspCAD utility and help from others who did this before me. Although I do not know what the impedance plot looks like for it ...

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?3139-Sonotube-Sub-Design


But I agree with running one coil off each channel in stereo mode since I can't determine if the Carver is stable at 2ohms.



The 8100 is seeming more and more like a good choice. I would need an HDMI splitter to send the video output to both my TV and my projector simultaneously, and would need some sort of converter to bring in the kid's Wii console, but those shouldn't be difficult to source (I hope); and regardless if I go with the 8100 or the UMC, I'll need these anyway.


I guess my only concern at this point is the heat of the internal amps when being driven and also when idle. The Yamaha receiver amps put out a lot of heat, even when idle. I wonder if the 8100 amps will as well. I suppose it won't be an issue though until I upgrade speakers and external amplification down the road.

 

[commsysman]

Perhaps you are not aware that a number of current owners are reporting that customer service at Emotiva is non-existent.


Several people have reported that they cannot contact an actual person regarding problems and warranty issues, and that voice-mail messages go unanswered.


I don't know the whole story on that, but one might want to research it before buying an Emotiva product.


The Outlaw 975 Processor is one you might want to consider.

 

[Stoopalini]

Thanks, I did not know of the customer service issues with Emotiva, and the outlaw does look interesting.


They also offer a package deal when combined with their 7075 or 7125 amplifier. Certainly worth considering, and I wouldn't need the HDMI splitter or HDMI converter, as I could use the component video out for the projector and it has legacy video inputs for the Wii.


I'll have to do some research on it and see how it compares in terms of audio feature set ... thanks!

 

[cwt]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoopalini  /t/1523543/emotiva-umc-200-upa-500-700-as-an-upgrade-option#post_24513157


Thanks, I did not know of the customer service issues with Emotiva, and the outlaw does look interesting.


They also offer a package deal when combined with their 7075 or 7125 amplifier. Certainly worth considering, and I wouldn't need the HDMI splitter or HDMI converter, as I could use the component video out for the projector and it has legacy video inputs for the Wii.


I'll have to do some research on it and see how it compares in terms of audio feature set ... thanks!

Just note you will still need the hdmi splitter for any hd resolutions due to Hollywood's analog sunset hobling component out Stoopalini

http://hometheater.about.com/od/hometheatervideobasics/a/High-Definition-Via-Component-Video-Connections-Ends-January-1st-2011.htm


The lack of any room eq ; manual or auto is important if you don't have a perfect room [ as you've shown ] but that can be worked around with something like a behringer feedback destroyer for the important bass frequencies

Here's a good review

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-outlaw-audio-model-975-preampprocessor

 

[Stoopalini]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt  /t/1523543/emotiva-umc-200-upa-500-700-as-an-upgrade-option#post_24518177


Just note you will still need the hdmi splitter for any hd resolutions due to Hollywood's analog sunset hobling component out Stoopalini

http://hometheater.about.com/od/hometheatervideobasics/a/High-Definition-Via-Component-Video-Connections-Ends-January-1st-2011.htm

Hmm, I read the article and it seems I would be ok with the HDMI connecting to the receiver, then outputting from the receiver to the projector over the component video; or am I missing something? FWIW: I use a PS3 for my blueray player, but most movies we watch are over the Apple TV (iTunes or NetFlix)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt  /t/1523543/emotiva-umc-200-upa-500-700-as-an-upgrade-option#post_24518177


The lack of any room eq ; manual or auto is important if you don't have a perfect room [ as you've shown ] but that can be worked around with something like a behringer feedback destroyer for the important bass frequencies

Here's a good review

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-outlaw-audio-model-975-preampprocessor

Thanks for the review link. I read through it, as well as the UMC-200 review on the same site. I would like the advanced setup features of the UMC-200, and am no stranger to a DB meter. Actually, I find myself doing room calibration more than I should, just in much larger settings; so pinking out a room, setting GEQ and PEQs up aren't a problem; and I sort of enjoy it (just don't tell anyone)

My Wife and I listen to a lot of music, both studio recorded and live recorded, so the individual speaker calibration is nice on the UMC-200, but then again, the independent sub settings on the Outlaw make for a great convenience. With my current setup, I find myself adjusting settings when switching between 2 channel stereo music and multi channel tv/movies. Having the processor store settings based on source content seems like a great feature.


Feature wise, I think I like the UMC-200 (or the 8100) better, but if Emotiva is struggling to meet customer service demands, I'll have to think through the decision. I don't want to get a product and be struggling to find help if it has a problem.


Thanks again, really appreciate the input. I'll be making a decision by the end of this week and placing the order ... I hope I can convince myself of one by then

 

[Stoopalini]

I just called Emotiva today to ask some questions and see how their support was.


1st, I commented on the Emotiva 8100 looking a lot like the Sherbourn 8100, even down to the internal product shots, and asked why the Sherbourn is rated at 80wpc while the Emotiva is rated at 65wpc. He said the transformers are different between the 2 units, and this is the reason for the rating difference.


I then asked about pairing with my speakers, NHT Superones, which have an 86db sensitivity rating (these are non-ported speakers). He said the 65wpc wouldn't be adequate and the 80wpc would barely get the system up to THX levels. He highly recommends getting something with more than 80wpc for the front stage at least.


I was already debating on if 80wpc would be enough, and wondering if I should consider the UMC-200 along with some other 7 channel amplifier which would be a good fit for the NHTs.


Maybe the UMC-200 matched with the Outlaw 7125 would be a good match for ther NHTs?