[EndersShadow]

So the Epik Empire hasnt been out too incredibly long yet, but I am wondering how it will compare to the PB-12+ by SVS. I am looking at getting one of these two subs in the next few months and am curious how they will compare.


The Empire is a sealed box with dual 15" drivers whereas the SVS is a single 12 in a ported box. Either sub will probably be overkill for my space, but I dont want to have buyers remorse later on and am looking at this as a long term investment and am willing to put down the money on it.


Hopefully you guys can help me weigh the pro's and con's of one over the other.

 

[socwrkr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow /forum/post/18183141


So the Epik Empire hasnt been out too incredibly long yet, but I am wondering how it will compare to the PB-12+ by SVS. I am looking at getting one of these two subs in the next few months and am curious how they will compare.


The Empire is a sealed box with dual 15" drivers whereas the SVS is a single 12 in a ported box. Either sub will probably be overkill for my space, but I dont want to have buyers remorse later on and am looking at this as a long term investment and am willing to put down the money on it.


Hopefully you guys can help me weigh the pro's and con's of one over the other.

I have been going back and forth between the Empire and the ED A5-350 and have found that no one will really be able to give you a direct comparison. You are better off searching and reading user reviews on both individually and making a decision. The SVS are more expensive but look nicer. With the Empire you are going to hear about midbase, and more midbase, and then.... more midbase again - unfortunately, it's difficult to tell if that is an educated opinion from an owner or someone mirroring what is posted on the Epik site. I've read for hours and hours and still haven't made a decision but have figured out that I think I just like learning about this stuff and this gives me a reason to learn. In the end, you can't go wrong either way, i'm sure either will impress you.

 

[EndersShadow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by socwrkr /forum/post/18185592


I have been going back and forth between the Empire and the ED A5-350 and have found that no one will really be able to give you a direct comparison. You are better off searching and reading user reviews on both individually and making a decision. The SVS are more expensive but look nicer. With the Empire you are going to hear about midbase, and more midbase, and then.... more midbase again - unfortunately, it's difficult to tell if that is an educated opinion from an owner or someone mirroring what is posted on the Epik site. I've read for hours and hours and still haven't made a decision but have figured out that I think I just like learning about this stuff and this gives me a reason to learn. In the end, you can't go wrong either way, i'm sure either will impress you.

I have no doubt on that as I am coming from a Polk PSW125

. That sub while nice just doesn't cut it for me. I guess I will just hope for more opinions here and continue to read up on them.

 

[dookie1]

i replaced an outlaw lfm-1ex (12" ported, hsu vtf3 clone) with an empire in my 3300ft^3 room.


the empire goes every bit as low (measured flat to 17-18hz), and hits way harder in the mid-bass. also, the sealed design is better suited to music.


no comparison, in my mind.

 

[MAC281]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie1 /forum/post/18186636


i replaced an outlaw lfm-1ex (12" ported, hsu vtf3 clone) with an empire in my 3300ft^3 room.


the empire goes every bit as low (measured flat to 17-18hz), and hits way harder in the mid-bass. also, the sealed design is better suited to music.


no comparison, in my mind.

I haven't heard the SVS, but I second the motion. I went from the Outlaw LFM-1 & 2 to the Empire and it's no contest.

 

[Jrunr]

Anyone ever notice how most of these guys talking about the Empire have such a low post count...??? I'm just sayin'...

 

[dondino]

Another low post count here. And another vote for the Empire. I joined AVS the DAY I decided it's time to get a new sub and after all the reading, I decided B&M subs just won't cut it for me anymore. I came from a Velodyne 750 watt peak, 12" w/15 sub bass radiator that I had for 12 years. I went to several B&M's and heard some stuff but wasn't too impressed, especially with the prices. I figured if I was going to pay $1500 for a sub, I'll take a look at online options.


I read all sorts of stuff here. I created a forum account. After a week of hard researching, I narrowed down my choices to a pair of Empires or a 13 Ultra. Did I make the right choice? I have no idea. It was a marked improvement for me however.


I'm sure the SVS is a fine sub but for me, I was very impressed with what I've read about Epik and decided I couldn't go wrong that route. The sealed design and very "Submersive" similarities were appealing.


If you look at the epic Epik owners thread, you'll see lots of satisfied customers both old and new and that was a contributing factor to my decision.


That been said, however, I don't think you can go wrong with either of those subs. It would be nice to include some more information if you're looking for advice. What size is the room? Will this be more for HT or music? etc.


Understandably you're going to see some posts from newer members like me giving our thumbs up to the Empire. We read about a great products, we buy it then we decide we'll share our impressions. Isn't that what a forums all about?


I've been reading/getting advice/etc on AVS for YEARS but only decided to join recently because I actually bought a product from information I got from here. And in a way, I feel I'm returning the favor by contributing with feedback on my personal experiences with those same products.


It's hard to be subjective when all I know is what I have and I'm enthusiastic about my purchase. The Empire is a great sub and I recommend it.


Now. More info please.

 

[hikinokie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie1 /forum/post/18186636


i replaced an outlaw lfm-1ex (12" ported, hsu vtf3 clone) with an empire in my 3300ft^3 room.


the empire goes every bit as low (measured flat to 17-18hz), and hits way harder in the mid-bass. also, the sealed design is better suited to music.


no comparison, in my mind.

This is why I've got a Epik on the way

 

[TnTBigman]

The Empire is impressive for it's size. And a steal. Almost matched my Epik Tower for down low. In room about 14Hz @ 75 with the Empire vs 12Hz with the ported Tower. It certainly bests the Tower in midbass thus makes my music experience more enjoyable (sorry for sounding like a broken record). It's a steal for that price. Hopefully ground plane measurements to be posted soon by Epik on it's website would give you a jist of it's capabilities.

 

[EndersShadow]

The main use will be Home Theater and watching cable TV. I listen to music occasionally through my xbox using Vista Media Center. Music should be ok regarldless as I recently reconverted all my music to lossless formats.


I have listed all my current speakers spec's below. I currently have the following items connected to my receiver:


Wii - connected via RCA's

Xbox - connected via component

Xbox 360 - connected via HDMI

Uverse - connected via HDMI

Samsung BP-1600 - connected via HDMI


This table shows the current speakers, spec's and configuration.

Manufacture	Position	Wattage	Impedance	Efficiency	Lower -3db limit	Upper -3db limit	Frequency Response
Polk T90e	Fronts	20 - 200 w/channel	8 ohms	90 dB	48Hz	24kHz	38Hz - 25kHz
Polk CS2	Center	20 - 175 w/channel	8 ohms	90 dB	60Hz	24kHz	55Hz - 25kHz
Polk R50's	Surrounds	20 - 150 w/channel	8 ohms	90 dB	50Hz	20kHz	40Hz - 24kHz
Polk PSW125	Sub	300 watts			34 Hz dB		32Hz-225Hz

Here is my current layout. I realize the speaker by the couch is pointing the wrong direction, but its the only way to get it to fit. I have run the room correction software with the receiver and applied it to my settings. I have 9 ft ceilings so living room dimension is about ~2400ft^3 not including the dining room. I have no real ability to modify the way the furniture is arranged and I am aware that my "sweet spot" is more than likely not the couch.

Hope that info helps!

 

[dookie1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr /forum/post/18187389


Anyone ever notice how most of these guys talking about the Empire have such a low post count...??? I'm just sayin'...

~25 more than you.


btw, what exactly is it that you're 'sayin'? and based on what? i'm a bit unclear on the conclusions that you think should be drawn about these folks.

 

[ApolloCreed]

The PB-12+ is a fine sub with a very nice fit & finish. I recently added one to my system to compliment my older PB-12+2. No experience with the Epic. Just thought I would give you some reassurance from the other side of the coin. Either way, I'm sure both of them would be a substantial improvement over your old sub. Good luck.

 

[EndersShadow]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloCreed /forum/post/18188996


The PB-12+ is a fine sub with a very nice fit & finish. I recently added one to my system to compliment my older PB-12+2. No experience with the Epic. Just thought I would give you some reassurance from the other side of the coin. Either way, I'm sure both of them would be a substantial improvement over your old sub. Good luck.

I am quite sure I would be happy with the PB-12+ but I am also trying to make sure I maximize my investment (and hopefully make it a one time thing). I guess one of the questions boils down to which is better: A Sealed or Ported Box?

 

[socwrkr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow /forum/post/18189434


I am quite sure I would be happy with the PB-12+ but I am also trying to make sure I maximize my investment (and hopefully make it a one time thing). I guess one of the questions boils down to which is better: A Sealed or Ported Box?

Good question, that's the one that has had me hung up as well. Although designed differently, I have about the same cubic footage as you in my room. I'll keep reading to see the replies and will keep posting to get my count up (since apparently that will make me a better audiophile

)

 

[dondino]



Quote:
Originally Posted by EndersShadow /forum/post/18189434


I am quite sure I would be happy with the PB-12+ but I am also trying to make sure I maximize my investment (and hopefully make it a one time thing). I guess one of the questions boils down to which is better: A Sealed or Ported Box?

General rule of thumb from what I understand is ported is better for HT because you get slightly more extension but it drops off quickly and sealed is better for music because the sound is "tighter". Mind you, I use the empires for both and it gets plenty deep for me, 15hz or lower and they don't break a sweat.


My last sub had a passive radiator which is similar to a ported design. Compared to the Empire, it got suprisingly deep but fell off very quickly when pushed to higher volumes. The empires just get louder and louder.


Also, port noise can be an issue when ported subs are pushed very hard.

 

[socwrkr]

If you are using powered tower speakers (i.e. def techs) would you be better off with a sub to match that is ported and has more extension since the towers are handling much of the mid bass anyways?

 

[dookie1]



Quote:
Originally Posted by socwrkr /forum/post/18192539


If you are using powered tower speakers (i.e. def techs) would you be better off with a sub to match that is ported and has more extension since the towers are handling much of the mid bass anyways?

no.


i had powered def techs, and you should just forget that they are 'powered'. think of them as standard towers with a pretty solid low end. they don't move nearly the amount of air necessary to give you that visceral mid-bass punch, and they don't go anywhere near as low as def tech claims on paper. you want a proper stand-alone sub.


(that said, i still run DT...unpowered BP30s)

 

[socwrkr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie1 /forum/post/18194301


no.


i had powered def techs, and you should just forget that they are 'powered'. think of them as standard towers with a pretty solid low end. they don't move nearly the amount of air necessary to give you that visceral mid-bass punch, and they don't go anywhere near as low as def tech claims on paper. you want a proper stand-alone sub.


(that said, i still run DT...unpowered BP30s)

Oh, I know I still want a stand-alone sub... i'm still just trying to work out which one.

 

[EndersShadow]

Also is placement an issue? I know that bass is uni-directional but does it matter how the sub is placed? The SVS I can just point straight out, but what about the Empire? Should I have it placed so the subs point toward the listener or at 90 degrees to them?

 

[CottyGee]

Hola.


I've got about 13,000 cubic feet of "open floorplan" to fill, and I'm hoping dual Epik Empires will do the job. I *was* thinking about a SVS PC13 Ultra. For the $, the Empires seem like more bang for the buck.


The "up" side to the Empires (vs the SVS PC13U) is that I haven't read anything especially negative about the sound from anybody that's actually heard them. The "down" side is that Epik seems far less stable and mature as a company, as evidenced by the lack of continuity in models and/or longevity of models, lack of an owner's manual, lack of empirical performance specs/data.


All that said and done - I'm still ready to pull the trigger on dual Empires and cross my fingers that I'll be happy w/ that decision years down the road. I figure no matter what, I'm going to get a significant improvement over my 17 yr. old Velodyne F-1200, both for HT and music.