Epson 1080UB to BenQ W10000 Comparison?

Why wait, so I took matters into my own hands and actually bought a few of the Epson's (had a coupon from Dell- and got below dealer cost pricing) and having a shootout between it and my BenQ W10000.

just so no one gets confused, the ones that I have for sale on the AVS classifieds are sealed, untouched.

I've only done a little testing and thus far the Epson is the front runner. It has a lto fo WOW factor (not that the W10000 doesn't - just the Epson has more), also has more 3D effect than the W10000 (and that's saying a lot as the W10000 is great in that regard.

The W10000 is still holding me b/c although great, the Epson still lacks that lifelike DLP look that I love.

ALSO: I'm having both ISF calibrated tomorrow - so I'll be able to give you a before and after opinion - I've heard that both benefit greatly from calibrations- as they both have a lot of tweakability.


If someone can tell me how to take great photos (as some guys here do) I'd be glad to take picks- but the pics I take don't do justice.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cgott42 /forum/post/13554845


I've only done a little testing and thus far the Epson is the front runner. It has a lto fo WOW factor (not that the W10000 doesn't - just the Epson has more), also has more 3D effect than the W10000 (and that's saying a lot as the W10000 is great in that regard.

The W10000 is still holding me b/c although great, the Epson still lacks that lifelike DLP look that I love.

.

Click to expand...

Let us know who's the winner with:

> Shadow details

> Ansi contrast (not on/off)

> Image noise/smoothness.


The W10000 has much better ansi contrast, but it would be interesting to see how that actually translates in a real life side-by-side shoot out.


Thanks a bunch

This is kind of an Al Bundyesque reveiw - meaning your average guy review.

i.e. I'm not a videophile, and didn't do measurements and such. This is just what my eye saw, and what I preferred.

Background.

I have a habit (read; addiction) to upgrade, and try out all the latest toys. Buy, use, and sell... buy,use,sell ...repeat.

I have had the CRT: SOny 1272, 1292, digitals: Infocus 4805, SP5000, Sanyo z2, z4, Panasonic AE900U, and another, Sony Ruby, Pearl, BenQ 8700, 8700+, 8720, W10000, and others that I'm forgetting

and this is my first Epson 1080UB. I bought a few (for sale now in classifieds section) and wanted to see if I would keep one for myself. I have my W10000 which someone bought and had ISF calibrated at my house by Kevin Miller (more about him later) - so I bought another W10000 and opened up one of the 1080UB's. the competition was to see what Kevin could do with the W10000 and then decide if I wanted to have him do the same with the 2nd W10000 (and I'd keep that) or try my luck w/ the 1080UB


Setup:

As for the room - Kevin rated my control of ambient light at a 10 (out of 10) - so bear that in mind when comparing to your own experiences.

Source = PS3 via HDMI


On to the competition

Stage 1 - uncalibrated:

I have to admit I'm biased towards the BenQ- at each stage it's always been the one that I prefer the most. and the W10000 has made me long forget my Sony 1292- not to say it's better - but to me I prefer it. I even saw a fellow AVS'ers RS1- and kinda felt it was a toss up- with the slight edge going to the RS1 (though he had a much more expensive screen than I do).

Anyway, I opened the Epson, watched I am Legend- blu ray, some LOTR and Cars blu-ray


Out of the box:

I was VERY impressed with the Epson- I have a strong bias towards DLP- and have always favored them over LCD - but I was surprised at hwo good the Epson was. It had more pop then the BenQ but still had a less real, less-DLP like image

I watched in Theatre Black mode, and then went on to try the Dynamic mode.

Normally I can't watch the dynamic mode - but I was very surprised - it was quite good. Maybe not to a purist, and Kevin (the ISF guy) didn't like it- but I did- and to boot it was VERY bright. Objects jumped off of the screen.


Before calibration winner:

All said and told, out of the box, I favored the Epson over the BenQ. If I had to rate, I'd give the Epson a 92 and the BenQ an 88.


Stage 2 - BenQ Calibrated

coming soon - have to feed the kids now

Stage 2 - BenQ Calibrated


First off, I've been sceptical about the need to spend money to calibrate. By all means to those where either money is not an issue (then why not?) or to those that are videophile perfectionists - that can appreciate finer differences. However for me I just never though that it was worth the money(an additional 10-20% on top of the projector price).

I have to say after I saw what Kevin did with the W10000 I'd say it was definately worth the money. In particular he got rid of the black crush- it was a whole new picture. Background items that I never saw, suddenly appeared.

So the winner:

Cailbrated BenQ W10000 vs. uncalibrated Epson 1080UB - BenQ - the clear winner - some may be thing "duh obvious" but I didn't think it'd be that way - kudos to Kevin.

Next question for me was how much of a difference the Epson would be calibrated (an unknown) or stick with the BenQ W10000 - which I saw how good the picture was.

This made it a hard decision - Price is Right style- take what you know or chance on the unkonwn that's behind the curtain.

I watched some Pirates At World's End (Blu Ray) and LOTR and Cars on the BenQ and Epson again.

And decided that ignoring price, I would have stuck with the BenQ, but being that (a) the BenQ is more expensive and (b) I was very curious what he could do with the Epson (as IMHO it was better out of the box, so perhaps it'd be better after calibration).



on to Stage 3- Epson Calibrated. . .

though before moving on to the next section, I want to reiterate - if you own a BenQ W10000 - although the image is great out of the box. If you're considering whether to get it calibrated - do it (by someone good).

I know Kris Deering thought very highly of the BenQ W1000 post calibration. He also liked it's tweakability.


I only spent less than two hours with the Epson and I in the end chose to stay with my BenQ 8720. The sharpness was a key factor in choosing stay put vs the Epson.


As far as your shootout (thanks by the way), you have one of the best in the business in Kevin Miller. Kevin made a tour stop in Kansas City a number of years ago and calibrated a past projector for me. Not only a top notch/nationally recognized calibrationist, but terrific person to deal with (on top of it).


Looking forward to reading more of your observations.


Ron

continuation of above posts:


Guys:

Sorry for leaving things in suspense I was away and busy and didn’t have time to get to the post.

I hope to add more info- but so that I don’t put it off any longer I’ll get to my conclusions


Stage 3 – Epson 1080UB Calibrated.


I’ve read online and Kevin has said also that the Epson allows you to really get the colors right. I’m not an expert but I can tell you that after the calibration I see why people mention grass looks real, as I never noticed before the grass looking odd, but now that it’s calibrated it’s very realistic. In general the colors are very inky, and as good as I’ve seen (though I would give the nod to the RS1’s colors). With that said Kevin over saturated the colors on the BenQ a bit (i.e. was able to get the 1080UB’s colors better) – but to be honest I prefer a little oversaturation.

Often while going on long drives I look out the window (often eating popcorn believe it or not as a snack) and compare the experience to (eating popcorn) and watching a BluRay on my home theater. And my conclusion is that other than depth-black levels- my Home Theater has more High Def “pop” than real life. And I like it that was (more pop).

But that’s me personally – if you want pure colors – the Epson is right on.

Black Level – I didn’t get or ask for before / after contrast ratio stats. Instead I’m going on my perception. I thought black levels looked pretty much the same as before the calibration, and then while watching, I noticed that objects seems to come out at me much more- 3D effect definite improvement = contrast improvement.

Sharpness – this is my only complaint – I think that he didn’t do anything for the focus, sharpness. I mentioned that the image lacked sharpness and then he recalled that he forgot to refocus after moving something. He focused and it looked better but not amazing. He had to leave for another client, so I left it at that. I later found while watching a HDScape vid that the grass blades were not so sharp, so I ventured to increase the sharpness- and it made a significant difference, I was able to see the individual blades of grass – Much Better. So I think perhaps he could have done better in that regard.



on to final conculsions . . .

Final Conclusions -


Color: My favoritism towards DLP is no longer an issue – I honestly like this 1080UB. Given the choice however I’d go with the BenQ’s colors (probably b/c as I mentioned I like it a little over saturated)

Sharpness – I preferred the sharpness of the W10000 but that could be b/c of an oversight in the set up.

Black Level – colors are slightly inkier on the BenQ (could be due to oversaturation) but the 1080UB gave me better 3D effects, and depth – which I think is really cool – advantage – 1080UB.


Overall – for me personally it was such a fine difference that I felt like just tossing a coin. I preferred the calibrated BenQ to the calibrated 1080UB. However I factored in that the BenQ was more expensive so I went with the 1080UB (in the end I needed to sell the other BenQ for cheap to pay the credit card bill, so that ended up being a shame as I didn’t really save much money.

But none the less I’m very happy with my 1080UB. And I don't think I'd trade it for the RS1 (not to say the RS1 isn't better, but just not enough to make me change). I do wish it has 120Hz to watch football games in – other than that – I’m very content. Until the next model comes along…




Jon

So, if we have the Epson with weak ansi contrast and the Benq with 2x strong ansi contrast, yet the Epson performs better or just as well in black level, shadow details, 3D, depth and pop.....then, just what exactly does ansi contrast, as a spec, tell us?


Or did I get that observation wrong


Or maybe it's Epsons DI that might of been the difference?