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How am I tolling the bell? I just took issue with saying the Epson in Eco is quieter than the Sony in low. I would have said something if the post had stated the same thing, no matter what projectors were listed. You need to at least use the same mode, low to low and even then, it is only fair, if both projectors are putting out about the same lumens. It was not an apples to apples comparison. I already stated that the Epson is not a noisy projector. That would about be like me saying the Sony VW5000ES in high lamp is noisier than the LS10000 in low lamp. Yes it is, but what is the point, since we are not talking the same lumen output.
Hello Mike, actually on re-reading you make a good point. My mistake. But Im still working on the theory that your second hobby is bell ringing:cool:
 

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You're getting 600 lumens in ECO mode?
This was taken about a month ago when I got round to doing a full calibration with both primaries and secondaries using the i1 Display 3 with Chromapure software. To be fair, I normally re-check the settings after a few weeks which I have not yet repeated due to too much TV and film watching:eek: The reading was around 13.7 footlamberts at the time but I will re-check this week to be sure. Previously I was on about 12.8 footlamberts and the brightness seems very similar for both images. For my purposes the brightness is more than adequate.
 

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Hello Mike, actually on re-reading you make a good point. My mistake. But Im still working on the theory that your second hobby is bell ringing:cool:
I like the Epson projector, just thought it was a little expensive, for what it offers. Epson LS10000 is not the only projector that I feel that way about. Now if Epson had full 18Gbps chips, HDR and Rec2020 support, then I might have picked it over the JVC. I am hoping Epson steps up to the plate, adding those items and true 4K. That would be a nice package.
 

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I like the Epson projector, just thought it was a little expensive, for what it offers. Epson LS10000 is not the only projector that I feel that way about. Now if Epson had full 18Gbps chips, HDR and Rec2020 support, then I might have picked it over the JVC. I am hoping Epson steps up to the plate, adding those items and true 4K. That would be a nice package.
From all I'm hearing Mike, that package, or something like it will be delivered at CEDIA 2016. The big IF however, will undoubtedly be the price.
 

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This was taken about a month ago when I got round to doing a full calibration with both primaries and secondaries using the i1 Display 3 with Chromapure software. To be fair, I normally re-check the settings after a few weeks which I have not yet repeated due to too much TV and film watching:eek: The reading was around 13.7 footlamberts at the time but I will re-check this week to be sure. Previously I was on about 12.8 footlamberts and the brightness seems very similar for both images. For my purposes the brightness is more than adequate.
You calibrated from the lens or off of the screen? What screen material are you using? I don't remember if I measured ECO mode the last time I saw the LS10000.
 

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Calibrating off the screen. The sensor is on a tripod about 19" away from the surface. I use a white wall that has been repainted with three layers of a matt white emulsion. The gain is probably around 1.1 and the image is clean and remarkably free of texturing and other nasties, thank goodness. As I implied, the i1 Display 3 (a great little sensor and great value for money) does require re-testing to check for consistency.
 

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Hi again.

To mike: I totally agree with you that projector noise should be compared for equal lumens. However, you missed my point. I was speaking about my ls10000 being louder than the ls10000 I reviewed before. But to give a reference that everyone knows, I compared the noise to the Sony hw65es.

About the lumens, with max Zoom, I got 584 Lumens in eco mode with the ls10000 I reviewed. With my own unit, I get more than 600 Lumens calibrated in the same conditions. This is already above the 14fL norm for a 2m50 16/9 screen width.

That the hw65es is brighter is true but not relevant for my screen size.

Best Regards,
Soulnight
 

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Hi again.

To mike: I totally agree with you that projector noise should be compared for equal lumens. However, you missed my point. I was speaking about my ls10000 being louder than the ls10000 I reviewed before. But to give a reference that everyone knows, I compared the noise to the Sony hw65es.

About the lumens, with max Zoom, I got 584 Lumens in eco mode with the ls10000 I reviewed. With my own unit, I get more than 600 Lumens calibrated in the same conditions. This is already above the 14fL norm for a 2m50 16/9 screen width.

That the hw65es is brighter is true but not relevant for my screen size.

Best Regards,
Soulnight
No problem. :)
 

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No idea where people got the notion that eco mode only puts out 300 lumens. That's only true with manual iris fully clamped to -11. With iris wide open, 6500K color temp, I got 605 lumens in eco, 850 medium, 1100 high. T10 light meter. This was using only about 1.25x of the 2.1x max zoom range. The numbers would be even higher at max zoom. This was on a recently built unit since it came with V130 firmware.

As far as noise goes, the eco mode was comparable to low on JVC RS600. With E-shift enabled on both, the Epson is quieter. Medium was louder but still quieter than high on JVC. High was too noisy for me on either Epson or JVC and I'm not sure which was better. The RS600 is amazingly quiet for a 1300+ lumen projector in low lamp mode.
 

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No idea where people got the notion that eco mode only puts out 300 lumens. That's only true with manual iris fully clamped to -11. With iris wide open, 6500K color temp, I got 605 lumens in eco, 850 medium, 1100 high. T10 light meter. This was using only about 1.25x of the 2.1x max zoom range. The numbers would be even higher at max zoom. This was on a recently built unit since it came with V130 firmware.

As far as noise goes, the eco mode was comparable to low on JVC RS600. With E-shift enabled on both, the Epson is quieter. Medium was louder but still quieter than high on JVC. High was too noisy for me on either Epson or JVC and I'm not sure which was better. The RS600 is amazingly quiet for a 1300+ lumen projector in low lamp mode.
Here's the issue that Mike is talking about. You aren't comparing similar lumen output modes. The new JVCs put out 1100 lumens in low lamp mode. The Epson needs to be in high mode for it to put out that many lumens. Low mode on the JVC is MUCH quieter than the Epson in high mode. Let's try and keep some relatively and context to the conversation. What's also interesting is that the LS1000 I've demoed was louder than the JVC in eco vs low and high vs high. All three of us in the room were in agreement on that subject. There must be some differences in noise between units then if you're finding different results. But again, if we're talking similar lumen output modes, the JVC (and Sonys) will be quieter.
 

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I'd like to know where the JVC's lumen output in each mode is after 1000 hours though. I know what mine will still be :) Would you then have to bump it up to high lamp mode on the JVC to compensate? Perhaps, but I don't know, has anyone logged that many hours on their JVC PJ yet?
 

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If any of these projectors are too loud in any mode for any of you fellas, ya'll need to turn that volume knob a few clicks to the right :D Just sayin' :D
I do not like the high fan noise on JVC, Sony (4K) or Epson. I usually watch movies between reference and -10bd below reference.
 

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I'd like to know where the JVC's lumen output in each mode is after 1000 hours though. I know what mine will still be :) Would you then have to bump it up to high lamp mode on the JVC to compensate? Perhaps, but I don't know, has anyone logged that many hours on their JVC PJ yet?
Depends on if we are talking existing bulb or new bulb on the JVC. :D Sorry, I could not resist. I know what you are saying, but I want my starting lumens higher than 1,000/1,100, even if it is laser. HDR is going to require it for most screens. Epson is on the right track with the LS10000. They just are not quite there yet. Neither is JVC. If we could combine the best characteristics of the two, into one projector, we would have something special.

Added
I am playing with a Vivitek H9090 in my room right now. LED projector with 0.95" DLP chip. Throws a wonderful image and as with the Epson, long lasting light source. Image is very sharp colors have a lot of pop. If I was only interested in 1080P, I could very easily live with this projector.

I do not have that many hours on my JVC. Around 120 hours total. I use low lamp iris on -10 or -12 (can't remember). I will only put around 400/500 hours a year on this projector. I will put another 500 hours or so, on my family room projector.
 

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I'd like to know where the JVC's lumen output in each mode is after 1000 hours though. I know what mine will still be :) Would you then have to bump it up to high lamp mode on the JVC to compensate? Perhaps, but I don't know, has anyone logged that many hours on their JVC PJ yet?
I'm using a unity gain 10' wide cinemascope screen and in low lamp mode, I'm still closing my iris about half way and am at a pretty far from max zoom throw and I'm still getting over 16ftL of image brightness. It will be a while before I'd need to switch over to high lamp mode. Most people won't need the extra brightness for SDR 2D viewing that the JVC is capable of until the lamp gets extremely old. The same goes for the current Sony units. Most people also aren't using a screen larger than mine. You could bump the Epson down to medium mode and get around the same lumen output that I'm getting with my iris clamped on the JVC, but it would still be a little noisier than the JVC in it's low mode.
 

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Actually having a very bright projector in the lowest lamp mode is not only an advantage.

If you screen is too small, you will be way over 14fL and your eyes will tire very quickly.

So many will say, oh...but just close-down the iris a bit and you can have whatever brightness you desire and at the same time increase your ON-OFF contrast... but if you do that, you are actually reducing the ANSI contrast quite a bit, and as I have measured, for all pictures being brighter than 1% white (and that's the vast majority), that the contrast will be better with the iris fully open.

On the Epson EH-LS10000, you have actually Lumens (~600) in eco mode capable of getting more than 14fL for a 250cm wide screen. And on middle mode (~816 calibrated Lumens), you still can get 14fL on a 3.1m wide screen! And this is iris fully open with the true max contrast for most pictures.

And for the Epson EH-LS10000, even if people would argument that they prefer increasing contrast ON-OFF contrast and the contrast for the few pictures below 1% by closing down the iris at the cost of reducing max ANSI contrast and contrast for the majority of the picture over 1% white , it would make no sense. Indeed, increase ON-OFF contrast is pointless on a projector shutting down the laser source displaying pure black.

Just saying, for usable Lumens no hurting our eyes, there is no point in having a projector very bright in ECO mode since you will loose contrast by closing down the iris on the vast majority of pictures...

Then only for very big screen, or for projector loosing brightness over time like the JVC, or for 3D, does it make sense to be very bright in ECO. Or if you like using your 5000€ as a projector to watch football and that you need the Lumens to fight ambient light.

Cheers,
Soulnight. ;)
 

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I wondered about the potential for too much brightness.

For example, on my 9 foot wide scope 1.0 gain screen, I only like about 12 ftL (I use the zoom method). Would closing down the iris all of the way on the RS500, for example, with a new lamp allow me to drop this low? Or would I have to resort to a filter?
 

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I wondered about the potential for too much brightness.

For example, on my 9 foot wide scope 1.0 gain screen, I only like about 12 ftL (I use the zoom method). Would closing down the iris all of the way on the RS500, for example, with a new lamp allow me to drop this low? Or would I have to resort to a filter?
I think the JVC guys would just say you're weird. :)
 

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I wondered about the potential for too much brightness.

For example, on my 9 foot wide scope 1.0 gain screen, I only like about 12 ftL (I use the zoom method). Would closing down the iris all of the way on the RS500, for example, with a new lamp allow me to drop this low? Or would I have to resort to a filter?
Depends on your throw. At longest throw, you could get around 10 and that is assuming actual 1.0 gain. Besides, I would much rather have the problem of too many lumens, over not having enough. Easy to add a filter to cut down lumens.
 
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