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I think the JVC guys would just say you're weird. :)
So having more than enough brightness is a bad thing? Up until about 2 or 3 years ago people would have literally killed for the kind of brightness these newer generation high contrast units are capable of. Maybe we should go back to the days when we were stuck with ~600 lumens of brightness. :rolleyes: If one likes high brightness, leave the manual iris settings at 0'' and enable the dynamic iris on the JVCs and you'll have higher ANSI contrast in bright scenes, which is where it matters and higher on/off during darker scenes where that matters more. Issues solved...
 

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I actually knew that part. :)
When you said assuming an actual 1.0 gain I wasn't sure if you remembered my screen or were just making a general comment. :) So, it sounds like I would just have to close the iris down a couple of clicks in low lamp to get 12 ftL from the get go in my situation?
 

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So having more than enough brightness is a bad thing? Up until about 2 or 3 years ago people would have literally killed for the kind of brightness these newer generation high contrast units are capable of. Maybe we should go back to the days when we were stuck with ~600 lumens of brightness. :rolleyes: If one likes high brightness, leave the manual iris settings at 0'' and enable the dynamic iris on the JVCs and you'll have higher ANSI contrast in bright scenes, which is where it matters and higher on/off during darker scenes where that matters more. Issues solved...
OMG, it was a joke.
 

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When you said assuming an actual 1.0 gain I wasn't sure if you remembered my screen or were just making a general comment. :) So, it sounds like I would just have to close the iris down a couple of clicks in low lamp to get 12 ftL from the get go in my situation?
You would have it closed most of the way. I run -10 (I seem to recall) on my 9' wide screen, but my gain is much lower. Good news, is you would be getting max or near max contrast. :)
 

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I have spent the last couple of days working on darkening my HT by dressing the walls and ceiling in black cotton fabric, and I just finished it up tonight. I have to say the visual effect of only seeing the screen in your field of vision is simply spectacular. The image appears much brighter which means I can clamp down the iris some (in eco-mode), and the image also appears to have more contrast with an increased feeling of depth and dimensionality to it. Getting rid of room reflections little by little and seeing the effect it gave on screen after every work session was very motivating. :)

This has made me appreciate the dynamic contrast (laser modulation) of the LS10000 a lot more as well. This system, especially on the "fast" setting, is so much more fluid than the dynamic iris on my previous JVC RS400 was. I can't seem to find any scene that gives it trouble at all. What impresses me most, though, is how it can go from a very dark scene to blasting out a lot of light seemingly instantaneous. A perfect example of this would be the first episode of Lost season two, which I started yesterday, in the scene where Kate rappels down the hatch for the first time. It's a really dark scene, but there is a moment in the middle of it where her flashlight sweeps across the lens, and it felt almost blinding - just like it should. The same goes for all the other darker scenes in the jungle, where whenever a torch entered the frame it really lit up the screen with the same impressive transition from dark to bright. It's as if the system reads a few frames ahead in order to react to the change in time? It felt completely seamless. Man, this thing keeps impressing me with the picture it can deliver!

By the way, how does the laser modulation work exactly? Does it simply control the light output of the laser using the current setting as maximum headroom, which in my case would be eco-mode? I understand it's all electronically controlled without any physically moving parts? This is all kind of interesting with regards to HDR and how laser, with its ability to rapidly control light output through modulation, seems like it could be a match made in heaven for its implementation with projectors going forward.
Are you effectively saying that you are happier with this beast than the RS400? I am asking as I've just sold the 400 and looking to either pick this up or the a Sony 4K. How do you feel about "color punch" between the two. Did the JVC have more pop? (that's what I find the Sony lacks)
 

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From all I'm hearing Mike, that package, or something like it will be delivered at CEDIA 2016. The big IF however, will undoubtedly be the price.
Problem is now that I have the RS600, I want my next projector to be true 4K and laser would be nice, but not a necessity, since I do not run many hours on my projector. For those that do not have a projector that can play 4K BD's it will look attractive.
 

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Are you effectively saying that you are happier with this beast than the RS400? I am asking as I've just sold the 400 and looking to either pick this up or the a Sony 4K. How do you feel about "color punch" between the two. Did the JVC have more pop? (that's what I find the Sony lacks)
Yes, a few factors come together with the LS10000 that for me makes it a very noticeable and worthwhile step up from the RS400. The completely calm and less digital looking picture, the better lens, the excellent motion handling, the incredibly effective dynamic laser modulation, the saturated and natural colors...

With regards to color and punch I'd say both Epson and JVC are excellent, but the Epson feels a tad more natural to me. I guess this has to do with me generally preferring the calmer and less digital looking image that the Epson throws. We've been on a Marvel movie binge the last few evenings, and having just watched the first Avengers and Thor, where skin tones has to be rendered next to the striking primary colors of the costumes and scenery, I have to say the colors are staggeringly good. The primary colors are beautifully saturated, yet everything always appears very natural looking.

By the way, I want to say a few words about the dynamic laser modulation and the complete fade to black. I understand that some people prefer to turn this off because they feel it misses a few "steps" of black level between the complete black and the lowest blackfloor the projector can produce while emitting light. In practice I honestly don't notice this, and the positives of the effect certainly outweighs the very few times you notice any "jump". First of all the lowest black floor the LS10000 can produce with the dynamic laser on is truly very good, but secondly - for the most part your eyes are already adjusted to a bright scene when the fade to black happens, and it lasts so short that by the time the next scene comes along you've just barely started to adjust to the dark, and get the feeling of being thrown straight back in it. Even when it fades to black from a very dark scene and continues to another dark scene, I'm not really getting the feeling of it missing steps in the black levels even when my eyes are adjusted to the low light level. It just feels very natural for the most part, and again it's a case of the positives outweighing the negatives.

It's especially awesome in scenes where the director choses to fade to black from a bright scene, which is often accompanied with a dramatic sound effect. This gives the whole experience a new level of punch and dramatic effect. I just love it. It's one of those things that doesn't sound like much just reading about it, but has to be experienced to be appreciated. This combined with how beautifully and quickly it handles going from light to dark scenes, providing that extra punch and low black floor, is reason enough to leave it on for good. :)
 

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Thanks again for a another detailed answer. Seeing how big of a mess HDR is at the moment especially on Sony PJ this Epson is getting more and more appealing to me. The only reason why I would get the Sony 4K is HDR but now I am not convinced that feature is any benefit at all on projectors this generation (I feel it requires a laser engine and much more brightness to be effective) it worked OK-ish on my ex RS400 but the vacuum cleaner high lamp mode gave me the s...s, however I also don't want to end up in a scenario where its constantly on the back of my mind that I should have got one with HDR.
 

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Thanks again for a another detailed answer. Seeing how big of a mess HDR is at the moment especially on Sony PJ this Epson is getting more and more appealing to me. The only reason why I would get the Sony 4K is HDR but now I am not convinced that feature is any benefit at all on projectors this generation (I feel it requires a laser engine and much more brightness to be effective) it worked OK-ish on my ex RS400 but the vacuum cleaner high lamp mode gave me the s...s, however I also don't want to end up in a scenario where its constantly on the back of my mind that I should have got one with HDR.
No problem at all mate. My thoughts on this is basically that the LS10000 already throws such a spectacular image with regular blu-ray that I'm more than happy with it, and basically feel completely set for the next few years. When I eventually upgrade to a native 4k projector with all next-gen bells and whistles, it will be after the format has been completely hammered out and all the standards are set, meaning setting everything up and getting it working perfectly should be as painless as it currently is with this "old" generation of hardware. And at that point, I'll keep the LS10000 around for regular blu-ray movies, as my collection isn't going anywhere and regular blu-ray is already such a high-fidelity format that I won't be in a rush to replace the collection with new 4k versions anyway, so there's room for both in my HT. :)
 

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exactly what I am thinking, not convinced with HDR at moment I think it needs at least a year to mature enough to be considered a worthwhile feature. I am now very close to pulling the trigger on the LS. I am going to demo it today once more.
 

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Yes, a few factors come together with the LS10000 that for me makes it a very noticeable and worthwhile step up from the RS400. The completely calm and less digital looking picture, the better lens, the excellent motion handling, the incredibly effective dynamic laser modulation, the saturated and natural colors...

With regards to color and punch I'd say both Epson and JVC are excellent, but the Epson feels a tad more natural to me. I guess this has to do with me generally preferring the calmer and less digital looking image that the Epson throws. We've been on a Marvel movie binge the last few evenings, and having just watched the first Avengers and Thor, where skin tones has to be rendered next to the striking primary colors of the costumes and scenery, I have to say the colors are staggeringly good. The primary colors are beautifully saturated, yet everything always appears very natural looking.

By the way, I want to say a few words about the dynamic laser modulation and the complete fade to black. I understand that some people prefer to turn this off because they feel it misses a few "steps" of black level between the complete black and the lowest blackfloor the projector can produce while emitting light. In practice I honestly don't notice this, and the positives of the effect certainly outweighs the very few times you notice any "jump". First of all the lowest black floor the LS10000 can produce with the dynamic laser on is truly very good, but secondly - for the most part your eyes are already adjusted to a bright scene when the fade to black happens, and it lasts so short that by the time the next scene comes along you've just barely started to adjust to the dark, and get the feeling of being thrown straight back in it. Even when it fades to black from a very dark scene and continues to another dark scene, I'm not really getting the feeling of it missing steps in the black levels even when my eyes are adjusted to the low light level. It just feels very natural for the most part, and again it's a case of the positives outweighing the negatives.

It's especially awesome in scenes where the director choses to fade to black from a bright scene, which is often accompanied with a dramatic sound effect. This gives the whole experience a new level of punch and dramatic effect. I just love it. It's one of those things that doesn't sound like much just reading about it, but has to be experienced to be appreciated. This combined with how beautifully and quickly it handles going from light to dark scenes, providing that extra punch and low black floor, is reason enough to leave it on for good. :)
Hi kohe,

I wasn't aware that the fade-to-black feature could be turned off. If it results in a few more steps of black level (ie, a little more contrast with the lasers always on), then I'm going to have to try it. I know a lot of LS10000 owners really like the fade-to-black feature, but I find it a little distracting when that big step happens. Also when the laser does come back on to a dark scene like a star field, the transition between a pitch black background followed by one that's slightly lit only serves as an annoying reminder of how much the LS10000 suffers compared to perfect on-off contrast. It's nice to have a choice though.

Thanks,
Darrell
 

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exactly what I am thinking, not convinced with HDR at moment I think it needs at least a year to mature enough to be considered a worthwhile feature. I am now very close to pulling the trigger on the LS. I am going to demo it today once more.
Yup, I think that in a couple of years the format will have matured and settled completely, with HDR implementation on projectors probably working really great. As you say, I think the laser light source and how it can modulate the amount of light extremely quickly will be a crucial part of making it work well in projection.

By the way, when demoing the LS10000, try it on the 4k-2 setting with detail enhancement settings on 25 for range and 9 for strength. These are the settings my calibrator set up for me, and I feel they strike a really good balance between great sharpness and picture solidity without noticeable artifacting. :)

Hi kohe,

I wasn't aware that the fade-to-black feature could be turned off. If it results in a few more steps of black level (ie, a little more contrast with the lasers always on), then I'm going to have to try it. I know a lot of LS10000 owners really like the fade-to-black feature, but I find it a little distracting when that big step happens. Also when the laser does come back on to a dark scene like a star field, the transition between a pitch black background followed by one that's slightly lit only serves as an annoying reminder of how much the LS10000 suffers compared to perfect on-off contrast. It's nice to have a choice though.

Thanks,
Darrell
Sorry for not being clearer, but I don't think you can disable the fade to black while having "dynamic contrast" engaged, I think it "comes with the package" so to speak, so when I said turning it off I meant disabling dynamic contrast completely. Though, I'm not entirely sure if it will do the complete fade to black on the "normal" speed setting, I haven't tested enough to be certain but I can't recall seeing any complete fades to black with it on normal. It could be that as the fade happens more slowly on normal, it just doesn't get to complete black in time before the next scene. Not sure.

At any rate, I'd recommend trying to leave it on "fast" for a couple of movies and see if it's something you get can used to, as I really feel it works great. The complete fade to black is just one part of it, the extremely quick adjustments from bright to dark scenes or vice versa, without any visible pumping, is a major factor as well. It's a matter of taste of course, so your mileage may vary, I just know I really appreciate the effects of it and do not see any real downsides. :)
 

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Yup, I think that in a couple of years the format will have matured and settled completely, with HDR implementation on projectors probably working really great. As you say, I think the laser light source and how it can modulate the amount of light extremely quickly will be a crucial part of making it work well in projection.

By the way, when demoing the LS10000, try it on the 4k-2 setting with detail enhancement settings on 25 for range and 9 for strength. These are the settings my calibrator set up for me, and I feel they strike a really good balance between great sharpness and picture solidity without noticeable artifacting. :)
Agree and thanks for the tip I will be sure to check it out with those settings.
 

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nope didn't have the time but tomorrow is testing day. Seen the Epson heaps of times and I am getting more and more convinced it is the way to go for now.
 

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Hi guys, a quick update on getting WCG into the LS10000 with UHD source material. My dealer here in the UK using the Panny connected to the Integral HDFury to the projector has managed to feed it BT2020 SDR 4K complete with filter engagement. Apparently it looks very good indeed. He will receive a special colour/video signal analyser in a few days For technical confirmation. However he got the same result using the Lumagen pro with it latest update. There is the remaining question Regarding the current profile in the LS10000 for WCG. We may need to re-calibrate this profile to the BT2020 standard to get accurate colours. But this is all definitely on the right lines. It is also quite possible that new UHD players such as Oppo will also have this ability to force BT 2020 SDR 4K making other external devices redundant. All to play for.

Now quite a few people including myself have suggested there will be a 4K HDR laser from Epson at Cedia. Well, this MAY happen but it is not a done deal by any means. Apparently the confusion around standards and constantly evolving technology especially stuff like dynamic metadata etc has led to a pause for thought. Hope you guys find this stuff helpful😃
 

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Hi guys, a quick update on getting WCG into the LS10000 with UHD source material. My dealer here in the UK using the Panny connected to the Integral HDFury to the projector has managed to feed it BT2020 SDR 4K complete with filter engagement. Apparently it looks very good indeed. He will receive a special colour/video signal analyser in a few days For technical confirmation. However he got the same result using the Lumagen pro with it latest update. There is the remaining question Regarding the current profile in the LS10000 for WCG. We may need to re-calibrate this profile to the BT2020 standard to get accurate colours. But this is all definitely on the right lines. It is also quite possible that new UHD players such as Oppo will also have this ability to force BT 2020 SDR 4K making other external devices redundant. All to play for.
That's what folks are doing with the JVCs, I know Manni did this with his RS49/X500. However you need a Rec.2020 calibration or everything will be undersaturated.
 

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Hi guys, a quick update on getting WCG into the LS10000 with UHD source material. My dealer here in the UK using the Panny connected to the Integral HDFury to the projector has managed to feed it BT2020 SDR 4K complete with filter engagement. Apparently it looks very good indeed. He will receive a special colour/video signal analyser in a few days For technical confirmation. However he got the same result using the Lumagen pro with it latest update. There is the remaining question Regarding the current profile in the LS10000 for WCG. We may need to re-calibrate this profile to the BT2020 standard to get accurate colours. But this is all definitely on the right lines. It is also quite possible that new UHD players such as Oppo will also have this ability to force BT 2020 SDR 4K making other external devices redundant. All to play for.
So the LS10000 is able to accept SDR+BT2020 and display WCG without a firmware update? Does the Deep Color indicator in the Info menu show that it's processing 10 or 12 bits? Does it look noticeably different if you turn off the Digital Cinema mode on the LS10000 or disable BT2020 with the HDFury EDID codes?

Thanks for helping to explore all this.

-Darrell
 

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So the LS10000 is able to accept SDR+BT2020 and display WCG without a firmware update? Does the Deep Color indicator in the Info menu show that it's processing 10 or 12 bits? Does it look noticeably different if you turn off the Digital Cinema mode on the LS10000 or disable BT2020 with the HDFury EDID codes?

Thanks for helping to explore all this.

-Darrell
He is adding an HD Fury. As for Deep Color, I would have that turned off. The LS10000 does not have BT2020 support, so I am not sure how good the color mapping will be.
 
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