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Good, then we all have the same understanding. :)

Then this should not be a surprise that with Hdfury integral set up to REC2020 SDR coupled with the Panasonic 4K blu-ray player, and a nice calibration to REC2020 on the Epson EH-LS10000, we get the right color on the screen.
Yeah, the only thing I don't know is if the LS10000 has all the right dials and range of settings to get Rec.2020 to display correctly within it's capabilities. I know the JVCs can with their Autocal. I could probably do it with a 3DLUT and my Radiance XE for other projectors, but I defer to LS10000 experts on if that's possible with the LS10000.

Even though the UB900/HDFury combination is able to supply SDR+BT2020 to the LS10000, I still don't understand how it can input the BT2020 format (ignoring calibration). I thought the only possible color formats for the LS10000 was rec709 and RGB formatted DCI-P3. Unless Epson provides a firmware update that adds the BT2020 input format, or the HDFury adds a new capability to convert BT2020 to RGB WCG (which they seem to be talking about), I thought we were still stuck.
It's just interpretation, you run your calibration software with a target of Rec.2020 for like 50, 75%, some saturation level that's within the capabilities of the LS10000. The pattern generator just puts out normal patterns, but the calibration software interprets the resulting/measured xy color coordinates based on Rec.2020 primaries instead of Rec.709. The difference between Rec.2020 and Rec.709 is what each code represents. If a given color is 75% saturated in Rec.709, it may only have 50% saturation in Rec.2020 (just random numbers to illustrate the point).

What HDMI 2.0a and native Rec.2020 support bring is automatic switching of gamut/calibration, and built-in handling of remapping Rec.2020's huge gamut to the displays smaller native gamut.
 

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Now I have the Hdfury Integral, also the Epson EH-LS10000 but I need the panasonic bluray player... (so expensive for a few 4K blurays...).

Also, I would like to calibrate my Ls10000 to REC2020 using 75% saturation pattern but Chromapure 3.0 does not give the possibility to choose 75% sat of rec2020...

Any ideas? :)
 

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true, which is why I feel its a cracking machine I really liked it. Blacks are as good as the JVC for sure. Definitely good value.
The blacks are very good on the Epson, but they are not equal to the RS500 or RS600. Almost as good as the RS400.
 

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The blacks are very good on the Epson, but they are not equal to the RS500 or RS600. Almost as good as the RS400.
Allow me to disagree after seeing them back to back:) At least to my eyes it was just as good.
 

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I reviewed both the Epson EH-LS10000 and the JVC DLA-X5000 (RS400) and the units I got to review were surprisingly extremely close concerning contrast (ON-OFF /ANSI / and with different% white in picture). :)

However, the JVC DLA-X7000, and X9000 are for sure above the LS10000 in term of contrast, as the older JVC DLA-X500 is. :rolleyes:
 

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Are the blacks quite a bit better on the LS10000/9600 compared to Epson's other projectors (6020, etc)?
Yes, there is world between them. I have both of them at home and just compared them yesterday again.
 

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Allow me to disagree after seeing them back to back:) At least to my eyes it was just as good.
Then they were not set up equally. As I said, the Epson and the RS400 are very close, but the Epson is not equal to the RS500/600 in contrast.
 

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Yup, coming from a RS400 to the LS10000 I feel they are both so close in contrast performance that I had a hard noticing any difference between them. Both are truly excellent performers and can deliver a very dynamic and punchy image even in very low light scenes.

The difference I did notice, however, was that the Epson perhaps paints out a bit more details in the dark parts of the image, giving a bit more feeling of depth. This shouldn't be a difference of calibration, as they were both professionally calibrated with gamma and everything perfectly tuned for my HT by the same calibrator.

Also, I keep repeating this point, but I really feel it's worth to note yet again how well the laser modulation of the Epson works, from the algorithm it uses to read scenes to how quickly and seamlessly it changes according to the light levels. It never stumbles or shows any visible pumping, where the mechanical iris of the RS400 did display noticeable pumping in many scenes - so much that I had to switch it off during certain movies where it got particularly bothersome.

Checked out the Epson today and I liked it very much. My only complaint perhaps is it's a bit on the dark-ish side.
What size screen was the one you tested with? My dealer has the LS10000 set up in their reference theater projecting on a 3,3m wide (142") Screen Acoustics V5 (called Dreamscreen here in Norway) 0,8 gain sound transparent screen. It was plenty bright in their "batcave" reference theater, and the guy actually told me that they will be increasing the screen size soon, and that the LS10000 should handle it without problem. I can't remember exactly how much bigger, but I think they were shooting for a 160" screen if I recall correctly. :)

Here's some pictures of their theater by the way. Click the images to advance to the next: http://www.photosnack.com/97BC9586AED/p713qppc.html
 

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Yup, coming from a RS400 to the LS10000 I feel they are both so close in contrast performance that I had a hard noticing any difference between them. Both are truly excellent performers and can deliver a very dynamic and punchy image even in very low light scenes.

The difference I did notice, however, was that the Epson perhaps paints out a bit more details in the dark parts of the image, giving a bit more feeling of depth. This shouldn't be a difference of calibration, as they were both professionally calibrated with gamma and everything perfectly tuned for my HT by the same calibrator.

Also, I keep repeating this point, but I really feel it's worth to note yet again how well the laser modulation of the Epson works, from the algorithm it uses to read scenes with to how quickly and seamlessly it changes according to the light levels. It never stumbles or shows any visible pumping, where the mechanical iris of the RS400 did display noticeable pumping in many scenes - so much that I had to switch it off during certain movies where it got particularly bothersome.



What size screen was the one you tested with? My dealer has the LS10000 set up in their reference theater projecting on a 3,3m wide (142") Screen Acoustics V5 (called Dreamscreen here in Norway) 0,8 gain sound transparent screen. It was plenty bright in their "batcave" reference theater, and the guy actually told me that they will even be increasing the screen size soon, and that the LS10000 can handle it without problem. I can't remember exactly how big they are going, but I think they were shooting for a 160" screen. :)

Here's some pictures of their theater by the way. Click the images to advance to the next: http://www.photosnack.com/97BC9586AED/p713qppc.html
The RS400 took a dive in contrast performance compared to last years bottom end model. The RS500 is a HUGE step up in contrast performance over the RS400 and LS10000. I also think it's a bit silly to compare the RS400 to the LS10000 when the RS400 can be purchased for half the price of the LS10000 and the RS500 is still ~$1000 or more less in price.
 

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It's not true anymore. (Epson reduced the negociated price quite a bit in Germany).

To give your an idea, currently in Germany, the negociated price is an Epson EH-LS10000 is only 800€ more than the nogociated price of the JVC DLA-X5000 (RS400).

And the laser is well worth the 800€. ;)

But you are right, the RS500 is above the Epson EH-LS10000 in term of contrast for only 700€ more negociated. Then it's a decision between more contrast +700€ more, or laser and 700€ more in your pocket. ;)

ps: I also reviewed the predecessor the JC DLA-X500 which impressed me a lot especially for the price you can find it right now with quite a bit more contrast than the Epson EH-LS10000 and the JVC DLA-X5000 (RS400).
 

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Yup, coming from a RS400 to the LS10000 I feel they are both so close in contrast performance that I had a hard noticing any difference between them. Both are truly excellent performers and can deliver a very dynamic and punchy image even in very low light scenes.

The difference I did notice, however, was that the Epson perhaps paints out a bit more details in the dark parts of the image, giving a bit more feeling of depth. This shouldn't be a difference of calibration, as they were both professionally calibrated with gamma and everything perfectly tuned for my HT by the same calibrator.

Also, I keep repeating this point, but I really feel it's worth to note yet again how well the laser modulation of the Epson works, from the algorithm it uses to read scenes to how quickly and seamlessly it changes according to the light levels. It never stumbles or shows any visible pumping, where the mechanical iris of the RS400 did display noticeable pumping in many scenes - so much that I had to switch it off during certain movies where it got particularly bothersome.
Very true, I also enjoy the laser modulation algorythm and speed! fade to black and no pumping are a real rare feature that we enjoy very much with my girlfriend. :D
 

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It's not true anymore. (Epson reduced the negociated price quite a bit in Germany).

To give your an idea, currently in Germany, the negociated price is an Epson EH-LS10000 is only 800€ more than the nogociated price of the JVC DLA-X5000 (RS400).

And the laser is well worth the 800€. ;)

But you are right, the RS500 is above the Epson EH-LS10000 in term of contrast for only 700€ more negociated. Then it's a decision between more contrast +700€ more, or laser and 700€ more in your pocket. ;)

ps: I also reviewed the predecessor the JC DLA-X500 which impressed me a lot especially for the price you can find it right now with quite a bit more contrast than the Epson EH-LS10000 and the JVC DLA-X5000 (RS400).
This is a US based forum. In the US the LS10000 street price is still higher than the RS500 by about $1000.
 

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This is a US based forum. In the US the LS10000 street price is still higher than the RS500 by about $1000.
True it's a US based forum with very big participation of internation home-theater lovers. ;)

What I say it's true in Germany. And I would be surprised if it was not true (at some point) in the US as well. And I speak of negociated prices, nothing else.n:)
 

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True it's a US based forum with very big participation of internation home-theater lovers. ;)

What I say it's true in Germany. And I would be surprised if it was not true (at some point) in the US as well. And I speak of negociated prices, nothing else.n:)
I know an Epson dealer and he's told me what his dealer price is on the LS10000. There's no way, even if Epson started a $1000 discount on the LS10000, that it could street lower than the RS500, let alone him sell one and still make a profit. It's just not going to happen. JVC has amazing street prices for their current line up in the US. MUCH better than other parts of the world.
 

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I know an Epson dealer and he's told me what his dealer price is on the LS10000. There's no way, even if Epson started a $1000 discount on the LS10000, that it could street lower than the RS500, let alone him sell one and still make a profit. It's just not going to happen. JVC has amazing street prices for their current line up in the US. MUCH better than other parts of the world.
Epson in Germany, is not proposing a 1000€ discount but a 2000€ discount! ;-)

But agreed, JVC street prices may be lower than in Germany. But only maybe since negociated prices for the JVC DLA-X7000 are very good too.
 

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Epson in Germany, is not proposing a 1000€ discount but a 2000€ discount! ;-)

But agreed, JVC street prices may be lower than in Germany. But only maybe since negociated prices for the JVC DLA-X7000 are very good too.
My guess is that they're trying to get rid of stock to make room for a new model to replace the LS10000 this fall and that's why they're offering such a large discount.
 

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My guess is that they're trying to get rid of stock to make room for a new model to replace the LS10000 this fall and that's why they're offering such a large discount.
Maybe, but that was my reality was I bought myself a Epson EH-LS10000. And I can say I made one hell of a deal! :D

Also, for me the JVC does not work since the minimum throw ratio at zoom max can't fill out my screen... and the Epson does. :D
 

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It's just interpretation, you run your calibration software with a target of Rec.2020 for like 50, 75%, some saturation level that's within the capabilities of the LS10000. The pattern generator just puts out normal patterns, but the calibration software interprets the resulting/measured xy color coordinates based on Rec.2020 primaries instead of Rec.709. The difference between Rec.2020 and Rec.709 is what each code represents. If a given color is 75% saturated in Rec.709, it may only have 50% saturation in Rec.2020 (just random numbers to illustrate the point).

What HDMI 2.0a and native Rec.2020 support bring is automatic switching of gamut/calibration, and built-in handling of remapping Rec.2020's huge gamut to the displays smaller native gamut.
I was talking about being able to accept/process the 10-bit BT2020 signal from HDMI, and not about being able to remap/calibrate it (although that would still come later). BT2020 is YCbCr and unless I'm wrong, the only 10-bit color signal the LS10000 can accept must already be in RGB format.

EDIT: The LS10000 can accept rec709 as a YCbCr signal, but it is only 8-bits.
 

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I was talking about being able to accept/process the 10-bit BT2020 signal from HDMI, and not about being able to remap/calibrate it (although that would still come later). BT2020 is YCbCr and unless I'm wrong, the only 10-bit color signal the LS10000 can accept must already be in RGB format.
Yeah, I'm not sure, I know the RS49/X500 can accept it (Manni's done it) but his Panasonic player might be converting to 8-bit. The LS10000 doesn't support 12-bit 4:2:2? That's the big problem with the Samsung player, you either get 4:2:0 8 bit Rec.709, or 4:4:4 Rec.2020+HDR, and 4:4:4 is beyond HDMI 1.4.
 
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