[Mike Garrett]

Sorry about that. Projector wise, I'm probably not going to go over 6 grand. I probably won't spend enough time watching movies or sports
in the HT room to warrant spending more than that, because I have a huge Lanai outside with motorized screens that can drop down and that area has a 75" TV, bar, and fireplace too. Its capable of year round use.

Anyways...the RS2000 looks to be more than I want to spend. With the lack of 4K programming, I'm wondering if I should look at the RS540 (if its even available anymore) or roll the dice on the 1000?

As far as the original RS400...the bow was in the bottom of the picture. Tops and sides were perfectly parallel, bottom center bowed upwards.

JVC told me it was my screen. Checked with laser levels, checked with 10' manual levels. Perfect. Then JVC said projector was off center. Checked with laser, checked manually with digital tape measures. Perfect. Then they said my ceiling was not level. Um, ok.
I build million dollar homes, and have thousands of dollars in layout tools. It wasn't the setup. But JVC had a problem understanding that. Its fine, its in the past...but I am a bit gun-shy because of the lack of tech support I received from them. Its almost like they think their product is incapable of having issues.

But, I still thought the picture looked great, especially with sports.

It sounds like you just were not accepting JVC's statement. You can have three straight with the frame and the fourth side off and yes indeed that can be setup. You keep saying bowed. Was line curved or angled? If angled, like I suspect, then JVC was probably correct in telling you that it was a setup issue.

 

[blkz06]

Sorry about that. Projector wise, I'm probably not going to go over 6 grand. I probably won't spend enough time watching movies or sports
in the HT room to warrant spending more than that, because I have a huge Lanai outside with motorized screens that can drop down and that area has a 75" TV, bar, and fireplace too. Its capable of year round use.

Anyways...the RS2000 looks to be more than I want to spend. With the lack of 4K programming, I'm wondering if I should look at the RS540 (if its even available anymore) or roll the dice on the 1000?

As far as the original RS400...the bow was in the bottom of the picture. Tops and sides were perfectly parallel, bottom center bowed upwards.

JVC told me it was my screen. Checked with laser levels, checked with 10' manual levels. Perfect. Then JVC said projector was off center. Checked with laser, checked manually with digital tape measures. Perfect. Then they said my ceiling was not level. Um, ok.
I build million dollar homes, and have thousands of dollars in layout tools. It wasn't the setup. But JVC had a problem understanding that. Its fine, its in the past...but I am a bit gun-shy because of the lack of tech support I received from them. Its almost like they think their product is incapable of having issues.

But, I still thought the picture looked great, especially with sports.

It sounds like you just were not accepting JVC's statement. You can have three straight with the frame and the fourth side off and yes indeed that is setup. You keep saying bowed. Was line curved or angled? If angled, like I suspect, then JVC was 100% correct in telling you that it was a setup issue. This is not based on opinion. This is based on the mathematics of a projected image.

Thanks Mike.

I accept explanations when they make sense.

The setup line was not angled. It was Bowed. Bowed upwards in the center bottom green grid line. Curved I guess would be another way of saying it.

Regardless, lasers don’t lie and neither do 10’ precision levels.

If the screen was 100% plumb and level at all 4 sides and corners and there is no bowing in the frame then isn’t the screen out of the equation?

A 3 plane laser accurate to 1/16” at 100 feet was used to square the projector to the wall and the screen. If it’s square, that then removed the other argument JVC kept making.

Outside of that, as I said that ship has sailed and I’m in the market for another projector, preferably JVC even after the dilemma I had with the RS400.

 

[Mike Garrett]

Thanks Mike.

I accept explanations when they make sense.

The setup line was not angled. It was Bowed. Bowed upwards in the center bottom green grid line. Curved I guess would be another way of saying it.

Regardless, lasers don’t lie and neither do 10’ precision levels.

If the screen was 100% plumb and level at all 4 sides and corners and there is no bowing in the frame then isn’t the screen out of the equation?

A 3 plane laser accurate to 1/16” at 100 feet was used to square the projector to the wall and the screen. If it’s square, that then removed the other argument JVC kept making.

Outside of that, as I said that ship has sailed and I’m in the market for another projector, preferably JVC even after the dilemma I had with the RS400.

If curved, then it has to be projector or screen, but most likely projector. Were you close to short end of the throw? That is worst case for bowing. The new line has less issue with this.

 

[blkz06]

Thanks Mike.

I accept explanations when they make sense.

The setup line was not angled. It was Bowed. Bowed upwards in the center bottom green grid line. Curved I guess would be another way of saying it.

Regardless, lasers don’️t lie and neither do 10’️ precision levels.

If the screen was 100% plumb and level at all 4 sides and corners and there is no bowing in the frame then isn’️t the screen out of the equation?

A 3 plane laser accurate to 1/16” at 100 feet was used to square the projector to the wall and the screen. If it’️s square, that then removed the other argument JVC kept making.

Outside of that, as I said that ship has sailed and I’️m in the market for another projector, preferably JVC even after the dilemma I had with the RS400.

If curved, then it has to be projector or screen, but most likely projector. Were you close to short end of the throw? That is worst case for bowing. The new line has less issue with this. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

I believe I was at 17’ for the projector distance. I’m glad to hear the new line has less issue.

So what are the pros/cons of the 540 vs the 1000? The 540 has better contrast correct? The 1000 has better sharpness? Would the 1000’s contrast be in line with my old RS400 all things being equal? I really didn’t have an issue in general with the RS400 picture. It was very black, and sharpness was good.

Since this is a Epson thread too, outside of the screen door effect how does the Epson rank with the JVC?

 

[Mike Garrett]

I believe I was at 17’ for the projector distance. I’m glad to hear the new line has less issue.

So what are the pros/cons of the 540 vs the 1000? The 540 has better contrast correct? The 1000 has better sharpness? Would the 1000’s contrast be in line with my old RS400 all things being equal? I really didn’t have an issue in general with the RS400 picture. It was very black, and sharpness was good.

Since this is a Epson thread too, outside of the screen door effect how does the Epson rank with the JVC?

Yes, 540 has more contrast, but at fully open iris, where you probably will be close to if not there for HDR, the contrast difference is much smaller. Still an advantage for the 540, but much smaller. If you were only looking at SDR, the 540 would be a great option, but for HDR the 1000 has several advantages.

1000
Sharper due to improved lens
Cleaner image
Much better HDR tone mapping
Can tone map any source
More accurate lens memory
Ability to use DCR lens gaining brightness
Installation memory

540
Contrast (40,000:1 vs 20,000:1 open and 130,000;1 vs 40,000:1 fully closed)
Price

 

[SirMaster]

My NX5 curves in on the top and the bottom like a pincushion.

However I am operating at the closest possible throw with a 140” picture.

The middle of my screen measured vertically is about 1/2 inch less than both of the side edges measured vertically.

So the top and bottom edge both curve in by about 1/4 inch in the center.

Hardly a problem as the spillover is easily absorbed by my black velvet frame.

 

[blkz06]

I believe I was at 17’️ for the projector distance. I’️m glad to hear the new line has less issue.

So what are the pros/cons of the 540 vs the 1000? The 540 has better contrast correct? The 1000 has better sharpness? Would the 1000’️s contrast be in line with my old RS400 all things being equal? I really didn’️t have an issue in general with the RS400 picture. It was very black, and sharpness was good.

Since this is a Epson thread too, outside of the screen door effect how does the Epson rank with the JVC?

Yes, 540 has more contrast, but at fully open iris, where you probably will be close to if not there for HDR, the contrast difference is much smaller. Still an advantage for the 540, but much smaller. If you were only looking at SDR, the 540 would be a great option, but for HDR the 1000 has several advantages.

1000
Sharper due to improved lens
Cleaner image
Much better HDR tone mapping
Can tone map any source
More accurate lens memory
Ability to use DCR lens gaining brightness
Installation memory

I’ll call you sometime in the next couple weeks or if you have time I’d like to get a price via PM on the 1000. I’m still a couple months out but I’d like to start getting my pricing together. Thank you!

 

[Mike Garrett]

I’ll call you sometime in the next couple weeks or if you have time I’d like to get a price via PM on the 1000. I’m still a couple months out but I’d like to start getting my pricing together. Thank you!

I do not use the PM system. Be happy to help you.

 

[plain fan]

Given how much of a difference the tone mapping makes, and how “easily” you can get great results with an off board processor like a lumagen or madvr, perhaps we’ve been looking at this wrong ...

I was just thinking about this as well but from a different perspective. With regard to Dynamic Tone Mapping only, would it make more sense to go with a projector like the Epson 5050 and an external processor like the Lumagen or MadVR to perform better scaling and DTM than what the manufacturers are doing?

 

[ivanhoek]

I was just thinking about this as well but from a different perspective. With regard to Dynamic Tone Mapping only, would it make more sense to go with a projector like the Epson 5050 and an external processor like the Lumagen or MadVR to perform better scaling and DTM than what the manufacturers are doing?

Id say no because the interconnects are also moving targets... so your off board processor probably won’t carry you through a projector upgrade or two, like we had during the 1080p era


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[plain fan]

Interesting point, I would have thought that the projector would be the weak link. I know the Lumagens are upgradable to 18Gbps in/out but not sure about the next step up.

 

[ivanhoek]

Interesting point, I would have thought that the projector would be the weak link. I know the Lumagens are upgradable to 18Gbps in/out but not sure about the next step up.

Well who knows.. also it’s not just the interfaces but the processing power on the FPGA


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[plain fan]

Very true. I don't know how the upgrade path works but I was thinking that 8k in a projector may or may not happen over the span of a few years (if every economically feasible) and that 4k with good HDR and DTM might last a little bit.

 

[Mike Garrett]

I was just thinking about this as well but from a different perspective. With regard to Dynamic Tone Mapping only, would it make more sense to go with a projector like the Epson 5050 and an external processor like the Lumagen or MadVR to perform better scaling and DTM than what the manufacturers are doing?

If the room is a good room the RS2000 will provide a better image than the Epson paired with the Lumagen. If the room is not a good room, spend money on the room improving it.

 

[Mike Garrett]

Very true. I don't know how the upgrade path works but I was thinking that 8k in a projector may or may not happen over the span of a few years (if every economically feasible) and that 4k with good HDR and DTM might last a little bit.

I think we are years away from having 8K sources for movies and TV shows.

 

[ivanhoek]

I think we are years away from having 8K sources for movies and TV shows.

Yeah but some also use PCs and consoles... as well as other sources.


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[Luminated67]

Id say no because the interconnects are also moving targets... so your off board processor probably won’t carry you through a projector upgrade or two, like we had during the 1080p era


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Speaking with Gordon who is the European distributor from Lumagen I am not sure I would agreed with that, if you got one capable of doing 4K then you should be covered for several years to come as I doubt we will be seeing much 8K material any time soon. Also the Lumagen is a step up from what the JVC offers but of course it's a significant purchase so you would expect this to be the case.

 

[Mike Garrett]

Yeah but some also use PCs and consoles... as well as other sources.


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That is why I specifically stated movies and TV shows. Going to need a really big screen and really close viewing distance for 8K resolution to mean anything over 4K. I think an 8K format will need to bring more to the table than just resolution, that is why it is years away from mattering.

 

[ivanhoek]

That is why I specifically stated movies and TV shows. Going to need a really big screen and really close viewing distance for 8K resolution to mean anything over 4K. I think an 8K format will need to bring more to the table than just resolution, that is why it is years away from mattering.

Sure. It’s not just 8k that benefits from higher bandwidth. 4K at higher refresh rates is good for games and PC use.

Many use projectors for far more than only TV and movies.. I use mine as a primary display. Yes, also movies and streaming (no broadcast or cable here)

Agree that for Movies and TV we are far away from 8k.


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[ivanhoek]

Speaking with Gordon who is the European distributor from Lumagen I am not sure I would agreed with that, if you got one capable of doing 4K then you should be covered for several years to come as I doubt we will be seeing much 8K material any time soon. Also the Lumagen is a step up from what the JVC offers but of course it's a significant purchase so you would expect this to be the case.

Yeah if you only watch movies and TV like above then you’re covered. However, Games and PC will benefit from higher refresh rates afforded by higher bandwidth even leaving 8k aside.


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