[manuelzsmith]

I'm looking to upgrade to one of these. They seemed to have dropped in price by a few hundred so I think it's time

Epson 8350:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpg0ehozQu8


Optoma HD20:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2wLKjR4P_4


They both look amazing and I did my research down to these two but honestly I'm a newb when it comes to projectors, some insight would be appreciated!

 

[ack_bk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelzsmith /forum/post/0


I'm looking to upgrade to one of these. They seemed to have dropped in price by a few hundred so I think it's time

Epson 8350:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpg0ehozQu8


Optoma HD20:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2wLKjR4P_4


They both look amazing and I did my research down to these two but honestly I'm a newb when it comes to projectors, some insight would be appreciated!

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home...80p_review.htm


Give this a read. The Optoma is cheaper, and the Epson costs more, but overall the Epson is better. Really comes down to your budget and needs.

 

[manuelzsmith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk /forum/post/20791114

http://www.projectorcentral.com/home...80p_review.htm


Give this a read. The Optoma is cheaper, and the Epson costs more, but overall the Epson is better. Really comes down to your budget and needs.

I know the Optoma can be bought at $750ish while the Epson is around $1000ish. $250-300 difference for slightly better picture and color and whole lot more flexibility and range... hmm

 

[Joesyah]

I admit I love DLP, but if I were choosing between these two. It would be the Epson 8350.

 

[YouMadBro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manuelzsmith I know the Optoma can be bought at $750ish while the Epson is around $1000ish. $250-300 difference for slightly better picture and color and whole lot more flexibility and range... hmm

I A/B'd the HD20 and the 8100 several years ago and in my opinion the HD20 destroyed it on price vs. performance. But the 8350 was a significant improvement over the 8100 from what I've read so its a tough call.


My advice, wait till CEDIA, the HD33 is supposed to be announced, similar price as the 8350, but will do 3-D natively as well. The HD20's price will more than likely drop too if the 3-D is not important to you.

 

[eat meat]

epsons have to many QC issues I would go with the optoma.

 

[Swhiteco]

I just picked up an 8350, I was weary of the alignment as many have complained about in the official thread. The projector I received is perfect, and the iq is outstanding in my opinion.

 

[Coopx]

ill go with 8350, i recieved mine with 1 pixel mis aligned but it didnt affect the image quality at all, the product is amazing, cant wait to calibrate it to show its full potential. What does mis-alignment do anyway in terms of IQ?

 

[Joesyah]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coopx /forum/post/20793458


ill go with 8350, i recieved mine with 1 pixel mis aligned but it didnt affect the image quality at all, the product is amazing, cant wait to calibrate it to show its full potential. What does mis-alignment do anyway in terms of IQ?

The misalignment causes the image to be slightly fuzzy. Now if you aren't accustom to razor sharp images, you probably won't notice it. Unfortunately I've grown accustom to non-convergence and see it with movies just as I would viewing my desktop with HTPC. If someone tells you mis-convergence only matters when using your computer with the projector, they clearly have a vision problem or image clarity isn't a top priority.

 

[YouMadBro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah /forum/post/20793592


The misalignment causes the image to be slightly fuzzy. Now if you aren't accustom to razor sharp images, you probably won't notice it. Unfortunately I've grown accustom to non-convergence and see it with movies just as I would viewing my desktop with HTPC. If someone tells you mis-convergence only matters when using your computer with the projector, they clearly have a vision problem or image clarity isn't a top priority.

Actually a 1 pixel misalignment isn't too bad and well within tolerances for a typical 3-panel LCD. The only way to get any better than that is to either get real lucky or get a single-chip DLP, the latter of which you recommended against in your earlier reply.

 

[Joesyah]



Quote:
Originally Posted by YouMadBro /forum/post/20793743


Actually a 1 pixel misalignment isn't too bad and well within tolerances for a typical 3-panel LCD. The only way to get any better than that is to either get real lucky or get a single-chip DLP, the latter of which you recommended against in your earlier reply.

Yeah I sure did, but that was just one particular model. lol

Yes the one pixel alignment is within tolerances, I agree. That doesn't mean some of us can't see that tolerance however.

Optoma left a bad taste in my mouth, their reliability isn't all that great.

I figured if the OP wanted to choose between two units known not to be overly reliable, might as well get the one with the better warranty and customer service.

 

[Coopx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah /forum/post/20793775


Yeah I sure did, but that was just one particular model. lol

Yes the one pixel alignment is within tolerances, I agree. That doesn't mean some of us can't see that tolerance however.

Optoma left a bad taste in my mouth, their reliability isn't all that great.

I figured if the OP wanted to choose between two units known not to be overly reliable, might as well get the one with the better warranty and customer service.

are there any projector in the market right now that is sharp as the LCD/plasma TV?

 

[Joesyah]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coopx /forum/post/20793800


are there any projector in the market right now that is sharp as the LCD/plasma TV?

Certainly, most entry level 1080P DLPs are easily as sharp or sharper than LCDs or Plasmas. Both my DLPs are sharper than my Aqous LCD flat panel.

 

[YouMadBro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah /forum/post/20793775


Yeah I sure did, but that was just one particular model. lol

Yes the one pixel alignment is within tolerances, I agree. That doesn't mean some of us can't see that tolerance however.

Optoma left a bad taste in my mouth, their reliability isn't all that great.

I figured if the OP wanted to choose between two units known not to be overly reliable, might as well get the one with the better warranty and customer service.

Oh I see now, maybe I misunderstood you. Image clarity (in this case mis-convergence) is a "top priority" (which I agree with) until reliability or bias against a particular brand comes to play?

In my opinion, the reliability of both seem to be great. I'm sure you know here on AVS, we tend to only hear from the minority of people having problems with their units. Outside of it, on countless merchant sites, buyers leave nothing but warm thoughts and high ratings for both of these machines and they are both also the highest sold 1080p DLP and LCD PJ's in the sub-$1500 bracket for the past year or so according to sales rankings on sites like Amazon. Because of that, we may see more people coming here to complain about both units which could skew our perception of the minority.

I agree with you though, customer service is a huge factor in this market, and Epson has it in my opinion.... but the best customer service is never used.

 

[coderguy]

1 Pixel off is hardly a big deal except for TEXT, or unless you sit very very close to the screen and are super super anal. You are lucky to only have 1-pixel off on convergence for an LCD projector.


However, a red pixel being off is easier to see than a blue pixel so I've heard, kind of makes sense too I suppose.


Fire up some text or patterns and you can see a slightly fuzzier edge, but it's not huge.

Watch a movie and 1 pixel off is a joke, you can't tell from normal size screens and seating distances, no way. If it's off 1 pixel on RED or some other more distinct color maybe you can tell from normal distance.


You cannot see the pixel itself at all though with your naked eye, all you can see is how it affects the other pixels around it (like a cluster of pixels where the edge of the cluster looks slightly fuzzier).


Just my opinion.


Keep in mind that 1 pixel off on a 1080p projector is the same as a 720p projector being 0.4 pixels off (less than 1/2 pixel off).

 

[Joesyah]



Quote:
Originally Posted by YouMadBro /forum/post/20794922


Oh I see now, maybe I misunderstood you. Image clarity (in this case mis-convergence) is a "top priority" (which I agree with) until reliability or bias against a particular brand comes to play?

In my opinion, the reliability of both seem to be great. I'm sure you know here on AVS, we tend to only hear from the minority of people having problems with their units. Outside of it, on countless merchant sites, buyers leave nothing but warm thoughts and high ratings for both of these machines and they are both also the highest sold 1080p DLP and LCD PJ's in the sub-$1500 bracket for the past year or so according to sales rankings on sites like Amazon. Because of that, we may see more people coming here to complain about both units which could skew our perception of the minority.

I agree with you though, customer service is a huge factor in this market, and Epson has it in my opinion.... but the best customer service is never used.

Yup..you are right about the customer service thing for sure! lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/20794974


1 Pixel off is hardly a big deal except for TEXT, or unless you sit very very close to the screen and are super super anal. You are lucky to only have 1-pixel off on convergence for an LCD projector.


However, a red pixel being off is easier to see than a blue pixel so I've heard, kind of makes sense too I suppose.


Fire up some text or patterns and you can see a slightly fuzzier edge, but it's not huge.

Watch a movie and 1 pixel off is a joke, you can't tell from normal size screens and seating distances, no way. If it's off 1 pixel on RED or some other more distinct color maybe you can tell from normal distance.


You cannot see the pixel itself at all though with your naked eye, all you can see is how it affects the other pixels around it (like a cluster of pixels where the edge of the cluster looks slightly fuzzier).


Just my opinion.


Keep in mind that 1 pixel off on a 1080p projector is the same as a 720p projector being 0.4 pixels off (less than 1/2 pixel off).

What do you consider a normal size screen my friend? From 13 ft away on 120 inch screen, it's not seeing the pixel that is noticeable, it's seeing the overall affect it has on the entire image. Some describe it as looking soft. This is what I saw with the last Epson I installed..image was soft looking compared to my DLPs. Some call it film like..I call it loss of clarity.

 

[coderguy]

You'd need to compare two of the same projectors side-by-side to see how much difference 1 pixel off makes, rather than two different models or two different technologies.


Are you sure it was only 1 pixel off, it's very hard to tell how much convergence is off without test patterns and looking at all sides of the converged line patterns at multiple angles. I had a projector once with nearly perfect convergence, but the focus wouldn't focus right, it turned out to be some MFR defect with the alignment of the focus rings internal parts. That is probably rare I'm sure, just saying it can be caused by a lot of different things.


Perceived sharpness isn't purely convergence, some projectors have naturally darker / more distinct color at the edges which can create an illusion of being sharper as well, and some LCD are able to create a darker line even when they are mis-converged. Also, some have sharpness enhancing effect even when their sharpness is at 0. Epson 8350 lacks Super-Res enhancing, and only has regular sharpness control if I remember correctly. Contrast also creates the illusion of a sharper image.


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Added

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Sorry if I sound like a know-it-all sometimes, I am just very meticulous about testing methods, especially coming from a programming background.

I can always find holes in someone's method of testing something, lol.

 

[Joesyah]



Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy /forum/post/20795151


You'd need to compare two of the same projectors side-by-side to see how much difference 1 pixel off makes, rather than two different models or two different technologies.


Are you sure it was only 1 pixel off, it's very hard to tell how much convergence is off without test patterns and looking at all sides of the converged line patterns at multiple angles. I had a projector once with nearly perfect convergence, but the focus wouldn't focus right, it turned out to be some MFR defect with the alignment of the focus rings internal parts. That is probably rare I'm sure, just saying it can be caused by a lot of different things.


Perceived sharpness isn't purely convergence, some projectors have naturally darker / more distinct color at the edges which can create an illusion of being sharper as well, and some LCD are able to create a darker line even when they are mis-converged. Also, some have sharpness enhancing effect even when their sharpness is at 0. Epson 8350 lacks Super-Res enhancing, and only has regular sharpness control if I remember correctly. Contrast also creates the illusion of a sharper image.


---------

Added

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Sorry if I sound like a know-it-all sometimes, I am just very meticulous about testing methods, especially coming from a programming background.

I can always find holes in someone's method of testing something, lol.

No need to apologize bro, we all see differently. I can only go on what these two eyes tell me. They told me the image was soft, it actually didn't look bad with text while focusing the unit. Clearly watching movies though, there was definitely some softening going on. My Benq W1000 doesn't have the contrast/black levels of the 8350, but it visibly has better clarity and sharpness.

 

[Coopx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Joesyah /forum/post/20793836


Certainly, most entry level 1080P DLPs are easily as sharp or sharper than LCDs or Plasmas. Both my DLPs are sharper than my Aqous LCD flat panel.

i see, the only thing i notice with mine is, the sharpness is great when the person on the movie is at close up (you'll see his pores and everything, really nice) but when the people was shot for example whole body scene, the image is kinda becomes 720p/ kinda blurry, not as sharp. Im not sure if this is normal on a 8350 since this is my first projector, i even compare both Image quality on my 42" 4 years old HDTV, and the HDTV has more Sharpness image, maybe because the pixel are compressed.


Also one factor im thinking is maybe my throw is too short, 12feet on a 120 Screen, or maybe i should try and play with the sharpness setting.


Or try my luck and return it hoping to get a perfect alignment, if there is such thing.


P.S the IQ looks fantastic on movies like TOy STory, rango, the problem only persist on movies that has real people on it.

 

[Joesyah]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Coopx /forum/post/20796885


i see, the only thing i notice with mine is, the sharpness is great when the person on the movie is at close up (you'll see his pores and everything, really nice) but when the people was shot for example whole body scene, the image is kinda becomes 720p/ kinda blurry, not as sharp. Im not sure if this is normal on a 8350 since this is my first projector, i even compare both Image quality on my 42" 4 years old HDTV, and the HDTV has more Sharpness image, maybe because the pixel are compressed.


Also one factor im thinking is maybe my throw is too short, 12feet on a 120 Screen, or maybe i should try and play with the sharpness setting.


Or try my luck and return it hoping to get a perfect alignment, if there is such thing.


P.S the IQ looks fantastic on movies like TOy STory, rango, the problem only persist on movies that has real people on it.

I noticed the same thing Coopx. The 8350 is 13 ft from a 120 inch screen.

Watching Tron and Battle of Los Angeles I could see the ever so slight fuzziness. On the animated movies it's not noticeable. I checked focus using text of the on screen menu and using the projector's pattern, everything looked good. Maybe I'm just anal about sharpness and clarity? My buddy really enjoys the projector, it is his first.