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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I posted a similar question in the "Official" 8350 thread, but it almost instantly got buried.


I was one of the many AVSers that bought a BenQ PE8700 about 6 (?) years ago. Aside from some minor issues I've been very pleased with the unit, but I just had a replacement bulb disintegrate, so I'm now faced with the dilemma of forking out $3-400 on a new bulb from Benq, our buying a new projector. The 8350 is close enough in price (after clawing back a few dollars from selling my BenQ) that I'm considering buying one.


Has anyone else gone the PE8700 to 8350 route that would be willing to post their experiences? If not, based on the specs, anyone care to speculate on what I could expect if I made the move?


I'd love to hear any other viewpoints - the PE8700 is quoted as having a 2000:1 CR, 1000 lumens, and native resolution is 1280 x 720. I only watch movies (no tv or sports) and a do a small amount of gaming (PS/3). I have a 100% light controlled room and use a 110" screen with a 13'6" throw distance.


The BenQ was about five times the current street price of the 8350, so I'm fascinated to hear how much projector technology has advanced. Am I going to be wowed or are the units more equally matched?


TIA


Dave
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF /forum/post/19574400


I posted a similar question in the "Official" 8350 thread, but it almost instantly got buried.


I was one of the many AVSers that bought a BenQ PE8700 about 6 (?) years ago. Aside from some minor issues I've been very pleased with the unit, but I just had a replacement bulb disintegrate, so I'm now faced with the dilemma of forking out $3-400 on a new bulb from Benq, our buying a new projector. The 8350 is close enough in price (after clawing back a few dollars from selling my BenQ) that I'm considering buying one.


Has anyone else gone the PE8700 to 8350 route that would be willing to post their experiences? If not, based on the specs, anyone care to speculate on what I could expect if I made the move?


I'd love to hear any other viewpoints - the PE8700 is quoted as having a 2000:1 CR, 1000 lumens, and native resolution is 1280 x 720. I only watch movies (no tv or sports) and a do a small amount of gaming (PS/3). I have a 100% light controlled room and use a 110" screen with a 13'6" throw distance.


The BenQ was about five times the current street price of the 8350, so I'm fascinated to hear how much projector technology has advanced. Am I going to be wowed or are the units more equally matched?


TIA


Dave

I have a Marantz VP12S4 and I would not even consider one of the newer Epsons. I read too many problems with them. Guys have returned four and five units due to problems. I am talking about Epson in general, not 8350 specific. I have had years of trouble free service with my Marantz and I doubt that will happen with one of the newer, cheaper projectors. Good news, is my Marantz has true 5,000 to 1 contrast and provides very good black levels. Much better levels than many of the projectors that list 20,000 to 1.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF /forum/post/19574400


I posted a similar question in the "Official" 8350 thread, but it almost instantly got buried.


I was one of the many AVSers that bought a BenQ PE8700 about 6 (?) years ago. Aside from some minor issues I've been very pleased with the unit, but I just had a replacement bulb disintegrate, so I'm now faced with the dilemma of forking out $3-400 on a new bulb from Benq, our buying a new projector. The 8350 is close enough in price (after clawing back a few dollars from selling my BenQ) that I'm considering buying one.


Has anyone else gone the PE8700 to 8350 route that would be willing to post their experiences? If not, based on the specs, anyone care to speculate on what I could expect if I made the move?


I'd love to hear any other viewpoints - the PE8700 is quoted as having a 2000:1 CR, 1000 lumens, and native resolution is 1280 x 720. I only watch movies (no tv or sports) and a do a small amount of gaming (PS/3). I have a 100% light controlled room and use a 110" screen with a 13'6" throw distance.


The BenQ was about five times the current street price of the 8350, so I'm fascinated to hear how much projector technology has advanced. Am I going to be wowed or are the units more equally matched?


TIA


Dave

The biggest potential problem is going from DLP to LCD. Sure the Epson is newer and thus better specs (even real ones, not the inflated garbage that is posted). But LCD's simply look different. Not saying you won't like it, but I'd highly recommend viewing an LCD of some sort first to be safe...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk /forum/post/19576075


The biggest potential problem is going from DLP to LCD. Sure the Epson is newer and thus better specs (even real ones, not the inflated garbage that is posted). But LCD's simply look different. Not saying you won't like it, but I'd highly recommend viewing an LCD of some sort first to be safe...

X2, very solid advice, if at all possible view a LCD and determine if you have a preference, a lot people, myself included, who have viewed DLP for 6 years have developed a preference towards DLP...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I really appreciate the insights.


To be candid, I was getting so caught up with comparing the specs that I overlooked the fundamental differences between DLP and LCD models!



Would anyone be willing to articulate their opinions on the primary differences between the images created by the two technologies (DLP vs LCD)? Is it like a "vinyl versus CD" (warm versus clinical) type of comparison?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF /forum/post/19578134


I really appreciate the insights.


To be candid, I was getting so caught up with comparing the specs that I overlooked the fundamental differences between DLP and LCD models!



Would anyone be willing to articulate their opinions on the primary differences between the images created by the two technologies (DLP vs LCD)? Is it like a "vinyl versus CD" (warm versus clinical) type of comparison?

I'll gladly give you my opinion based on what my physiology and personality allows me to see, but be advised this tends to be a loaded topic as opinions differ dramatically...


In current projectors DLP consistently maintains a sharper image even during fast motion content, while LCDs tend to drop in sharpness during high speed content. This lack of consistent sharpness on LCDs bothers some people, like myself, however goes unnoticed by others, and some even prefer the drop in sharpness during high speed content as to them it feels more natural. This drop in sharpness in LCDs is most commonly referred to as motion blur. It's nothing like it was several years ago, LCDs have closed the gap dramatically, but if you've been viewing DLP for as long as you and I have, it is very feasible you have unknowingly developed a preference for the DLP image. To me this consistent sharpness coupled with vibrant color rendering gives DLP a look that is a little more enhanced then real life, that some refer to as a "soap opera" look. Current LCDs have vibrant colors and a very sharp image, but not as consistently as sharp as DLP, and most LCD fans are fine with that as they see it as a more natural image. There is no right or wrong here just personal preference, and the only way one can know for sure what their preference is, is by experiencing it....


That is my opinion on the primary differences between the images created by the two technologies, as you requested...


It should also be known that there are differences in features between the two technologies that favor LCD, which may or may not make a difference in your situation...
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
AhamayXVII - what a great post! I know that the LCD vs DLP comparison must have been debated to death mulitple times over, but I struggled to find anything more than oblique references to the topic - so I really appreciate you taking the time to distill it down for me.


Dave
 

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1. You may see the rainbow effect during fast action scenes on DLP. Example below is exaggerated but you get the point of what can be seen.




2. With DLP, the projector MUST be mounted PRECISELY in a specific location ABOVE or BELOW the screen border to get proper projection to the screen. This is usually anywhere from 5"-20"


This is due to no lens shift.


3. Substantial light leaks from projector from the bulb on some models of DLP projectors.


4. Higher fan noise from some DLP projectors due to higher wattage bulbs.


5. Some people claim to see the screen door effect on LCD projectors.

With 1080p resolution, unless you are sitting 5 feet or less from a +110" screen, you are not going to see the screen door effect.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF /forum/post/19583752


AhamayXVII - what a great post! I know that the LCD vs DLP comparison must have been debated to death mulitple times over, but I struggled to find anything more than oblique references to the topic - so I really appreciate you taking the time to distill it down for me.


Dave

No problem, sometime us pods like to help out the humans
And your analogy of "vinyl vs CD" (warm vs clinical).... wow did that bring back some memories... Apparently you are no spring chicken either



And as for whether or not you'll be "wowed", that really depends on what your expectations are... If you haven't already, check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1292802 For the most part, and much to my surprise it has remained very informative and unbiased...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman /forum/post/19587317


1. You may see the rainbow effect during fast action scenes on DLP. Example below is exaggerated but you get the point of what can be seen.




2. With DLP, the projector MUST be mounted PRECISELY in a specific location ABOVE or BELOW the screen border to get proper projection to the screen. This is usually anywhere from 5"-20"


This is due to no lens shift.


3. Substantial light leaks from projector from the bulb on some models of DLP projectors.


4. Higher fan noise from some DLP projectors due to higher wattage bulbs.


5. Some people claim to see the screen door effect on LCD projectors.

With 1080p resolution, unless you are sitting 5 feet or less from a +110" screen, you are not going to see the screen door effect.

Humor me here, which post in THIS thread was this a response to?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGF /forum/post/19574400


I posted a similar question in the "Official" 8350 thread, but it almost instantly got buried.


I was one of the many AVSers that bought a BenQ PE8700 about 6 (?) years ago. Aside from some minor issues I've been very pleased with the unit, but I just had a replacement bulb disintegrate, so I'm now faced with the dilemma of forking out $3-400 on a new bulb from Benq, our buying a new projector. The 8350 is close enough in price (after clawing back a few dollars from selling my BenQ) that I'm considering buying one.


Has anyone else gone the PE8700 to 8350 route that would be willing to post their experiences? If not, based on the specs, anyone care to speculate on what I could expect if I made the move?


I'd love to hear any other viewpoints - the PE8700 is quoted as having a 2000:1 CR, 1000 lumens, and native resolution is 1280 x 720. I only watch movies (no tv or sports) and a do a small amount of gaming (PS/3). I have a 100% light controlled room and use a 110" screen with a 13'6" throw distance.


The BenQ was about five times the current street price of the 8350, so I'm fascinated to hear how much projector technology has advanced. Am I going to be wowed or are the units more equally matched?


TIA


Dave

Dave, your post reminds me so much of my own scenario an upgrade or two back .. my throw distance, screen size, light PS3 gaming use (grandkids mainly) .. and primary movie watcher as well ..


Just from my experience, I leaned toward DLP when a lamp popped on me, in fact, bought one (Mitsubishi) .. loved it, very distinct color, quite sharp .. etc .. had issues with the color wheel that simply could not get resolved with multi units .. as well as pretty limited placement options ..


After that refund, went to LCD .. Epson, in fact .. not quite as crisp, not quite as engaging .. wonderful placement flexibility .. great warrantee .. passing 1000 hours, the lamp dimmed so much it was sad .. sold it


I currently use a Viewsonic pro8100 LCD, which has been a fantastic unit for me, and as good or better than any DLP I've seen, although late builds have what appears to be a greater than normal share of problems ..


Bottom line, I'd go with LCD again .. I believe you will be wowed by the 8350 ..

Willie
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman /forum/post/19587317


2. With DLP, the projector MUST be mounted PRECISELY in a specific location ABOVE or BELOW the screen border to get proper projection to the screen. This is usually anywhere from 5"-20"


This is due to no lens shift.


.

A number of DLP projectors, even inexpensive ones, have vertical lens shift. Horizontal is usually harder to find. I'll agree it's not as common as on LCD, where seemingly every PJ has vertical and horizontal lens shift, even bare bones budget models. I still wouldn't list it as a "negative" for DLP.


I just replaced my 720p, Optoma HD78DC3 DLP projector with the 8350. 5 years ago, when I got the Optoma, there was a clear difference between most LCD and DLP models - at roughly the same price points (I'm assuming we're talking about the under 3k crowd for both) DLP would give a better picture, while LCD was more flexible in terms of placement, brightness, etc. I know I'm generalizing but I'm not too far off the mark, either.


Times have certainly changed. The 8350 is a big reason why, much like the Panasonic AE4000u was last year. Now you can get a 1080p LCD that many people would agree has at least as good a picture as similarly priced DLP models, and have more features on top of that. I went and evaluated a lot of PJ's before I settled on the 8350, even got a couple at BB to try, and I'm pretty sure you won't find a better projector for the (street) price of the 8350, no matter what kind it is. I have no regrets replacing my HD78DC3, even though it was, and still is, an excellent DLP projector. For $1100 I got a PJ that throws at least as good a picture, that's brighter, quieter, 1080p - a nice change on my 110 inch screen that I sit about 13 feet from - and is infinitely easier to set up.


Don't overlook the fact that the 8350 is a "budget" projector that can throw a bright enough image to be used in a room with ambient light without significantly altering picture quality. Not everyone wants to use a PJ just for movies in a dark man cave. My old Optoma was set up that way for 5 years and I could count on my hands and toes the number of times my wife has watched anything on it. I repainted my cave a lighter color, got the 8350, and now we might actually use it like it was just another (giant) TV instead of a special-event movie machine.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman /forum/post/19587317



2. With DLP, the projector MUST be mounted PRECISELY in a specific location ABOVE or BELOW the screen border to get proper projection to the screen. This is usually anywhere from 5"-20"


This is due to no lens shift.


You make it sound like no DLP's come with lens shift which is very untrue. There are lots of DLP's that come WITH lens shift. However, lower end models do come without it. Please be a bit more clear when making such statements.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chumpchange21 /forum/post/19592819


You make it sound like no DLP's come with lens shift which is very untrue. There are lots of DLP's that come WITH lens shift. However, lower end models do come without it. Please be a bit more clear when making such statements.

You are correct. I assumed since we are in the under $3000 projector forum, it would be insinuated I meant DLP in that price range.

IIRC, to get a DLP with lens shift starts well above $3000.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman /forum/post/19593270


You are correct. I assumed since we are in the under $3000 projector forum, it would be insinuated I meant DLP in that price range.

IIRC, to get a DLP with lens shift starts well above $3000.

Exactly correct .. the OP was looking in the $1400 or so price class .. I'd like to see a DLP unit with H and V shift in that range new .. if anyone can point one out, I'd sure be interested ..
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman /forum/post/19593270


You are correct. I assumed since we are in the under $3000 projector forum, it would be insinuated I meant DLP in that price range.

IIRC, to get a DLP with lens shift starts well above $3000.

No it doesn't. Hell I got my Optoma for under 3k 5 years ago and it has vertical lens shift.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 42Plasmaman /forum/post/19593270


You are correct. I assumed since we are in the under $3000 projector forum, it would be insinuated I meant DLP in that price range.

IIRC, to get a DLP with lens shift starts well above $3000.

The Benq W6000 can be had for $2100ish has both V & H lens shift... There are several other DLPs that have both H & V shift, going in the $2500 to $2700 range...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamay17 /forum/post/19590419


No problem, sometime us pods like to help out the humans
And your analogy of "vinyl vs CD" (warm vs clinical).... wow did that bring back some memories... Apparently you are no spring chicken either


That obvious, eh? I should have put in my good teeth!



I really appreciate everyone's comments and insights to my question. It's fascinating to me how fast projector technology has advanced even over the relatively short period of time since I bought my PE8700. When I first constructed my dedicated home theater I invested heavily in the more "stable" components (such as amps) and infrastructure, but knew that items like the projector would be rapidly surpassed by new technologies.


I smiled at the exchange about projector pricing - the BenQ PE8700 was about 6 grand (street price) when I bought it. There seems to be little doubt that even the modestly priced 8350 will yield a superior image.


My biggest challenge now is to resist my old nemesis of scope creep.... if the 8350 is as good as everyone is saying..... then the new 8700 must be even better...... so how about the.....
Maybe I should just shut up and go buy one!
 

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1. You may see the rainbow effect during fast action scenes on DLP. Example below is exaggerated but you get the point of what can be seen.




2. With DLP, the projector MUST be mounted PRECISELY in a specific location ABOVE or BELOW the screen border to get proper projection to the screen. This is usually anywhere from 5"-20"


This is due to no lens shift.


Only about 1 or 2% of the population see rainbows. Most of the time they are seen on low speed color wheel projectors. Buy a DLP projector with a 5x speed wheel and it will most likely not be a problem for you or any viewer that you have over.


I have two DLP projectors. Both of them have lens shift. Light leakage is not a problem with either projector. In fact light leakage was worse on my Epson HC720 which was LCD.


Added

Both of my projectors were purchased new from authorized dealers. One cost under $650 and the other under $1200.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahamay17 /forum/post/19593563


The Benq W6000 can be had for $2100ish has both V & H lens shift... There are several other DLPs that have both H & V shift, going in the $2500 to $2700 range...

YOU BEAT ME TO IT hahaha. But seriously. Epic fail response. There are many projectors out there that are DLP that are under 3000 that are supported with V & H lens shift. Come on now, why must we do homework for you.


And don't say well the W6000 started out as greater than 3K range projector, well so did half the projectors out there. Fact of the matter is there ARE many projectors out there with DLP with lens shift under 3K. The W6000 for example although almost 1k more than the 8350 at some places. However a month ago I remember reading some guy saying he got the W6000 for under 2k on the W6000 thread (which is located in the +3000 threads), not sure if that's true or not though. But under the 5000k mark the W6000 has over and over again been considered one of the highest and best valued projectors. It's also one of the brightest HT projectors with 2500 lumens and carries outstanding contrast ratio of 50,000:1. DLP's have naturally higher rated true contrast ratio compared to LCD's, so keep that in mind as well.


@mgkdragn I understand that, but I do also believe that we should respond with care and accuracy and not elude knowledgeable people that DLP = no lens shift period. And btw, by informing users that "hey you know lens shift is available on DLP for a higher price" it may just change their decision and allow them to save a bit more to get a DLP instead. Yes I may be biased with DLP's but at least I am laying out facts clearly.


However the reason why I am putting a stance on this issue is mainly because you may have a biased opinion on LCD, but please understand that most existing DLP users over time get used to the DLP exposure. DLP and LCD have significant display qualities. DLP's project higher native saturation levels which give images a 'pop' type of feel. Some describe it as the 'soap opera' feel. As in the picture has more depth to it. LCD's tend to have a flatter (2 dimensional) feel, DLP's also have deeper blacks.


Basically all I'm saying is DGF , before you go out and buy yourself an LCD. Do test one out and make sure you're fine with it. As many DLP users will say that once you get used to watching DLP, as you have for years, it's hard to switch to LCD. Many that have switched ended up coming back to DLP. Start researching
 
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