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Discussion Starter #1
I am trying to decide between these to projectors. I know the Epson 720 is only 720p vs 1080p for the Mitsubishi, but I have heard a lot of good things about the Epson and there is a great deal out there on both of them. Essentially I can get the Epson for $1,100 with a free bulb and the Mitsubishi for $1,400.


The Epson on paper looks to have a higher contrast (10,000:1 vs 7,500:1) and higher brightness (1600 vs 1000) lumens.


I am projecting an 85-95" image onto a wall and my seating is fixed at 10 feet 11 inches from the wall. Not sure what the calculation is for whether added resolution from 720p to 1080p will make a difference in my case based on my seating distance/projected image.


I am mainly feeding Xbox 360, HD-DVD, and over-the-air HD.


I really care about gaming from the 360 and also the occasional HD-DVD - I will also be watching sports via over-the-air HD.


Any comments on the HC 720 and or Mitsubishi on which is the better projector for what I need? Any experience with 360/PS3 gaming on the Epson or Mitsubishi?

Thanks in advance.
 

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i have the 4900 and xbox 360 via hdmi looks awesome. My ps3 arrives on monday so I can try the blue ray on it
 

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I have the HC4900 with Blu Ray. I give it thumbs up. For the price I don't think you can get a better PJ.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the feedback. What about brightness, contrast, and black levels? Does the 1,000 lumens allow you any flexibility with ambient light, or do you have to be in total darkness?


Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Anybody have some advice here? :) I am torn between what to do between these two projectors.


Thanks in advance!
 

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From what I'm reading the 720 has better blacks and shadow detail. The 4900 has better finer detail in HD images and is 1080p obviously.
 

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It depends on your screen. The 4900 was too washed out on a painted wall during the day with it pretty bright (but light-filtering shades drawn). Using a grey screen, it was watchable, but not impressive. You wouldn't see any detail difference between 720p and 1080p during the day.


At night, if you fill the screen, I am betting the black levels of the HC4900 will be ok. I'm not sure why I didn't test that out yesterday night. But then again, I might be comparing black in the picture to black in the border and it will seem greyed-out.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Ok, thanks for the feedback guys.


I am really torn here and need to act quickly before the rebates in play expire.


I am concerned about the contrast, brightness, and black levels of the Mitsubishi. It is only rated 7500:1 vs the Epson 10000:1 as it relates to contrast and reviewers have also said they are underwhelmed when it comes to black levels.


I have been spoiled by a Sharp XR10 XGA resolution projector that has a very sharp picture (no pun intended) and 2000 lumens. I got used to it's brightness and I am worried also about how bright the Mitsubishi is at 1000 lumens vs the Epsons 1600. I have one large window in an otherwise dark room. The window has a roman shade that does a pretty good job of blocking most light but there is some leakage.


I'd like to hear more about black levels and contrast from both owners of the 720 and the 4900.


I am being seduced to the Mitsubishi, I think because of the boost in resolution from 720p to 1080p. I have a 90" image that I am watching from about 11 feet so I would see a difference in 720p vs 1080p from that distance - but I think black level and contrast is more important to me.


In fact, a recent SMPTE (Society of Motion Pictures and Television Engineers) study found that the four aspects of a picture that the human eye “sees”—in order of importance - are:


Contrast Ratio/Dynamic Range

Color Saturation

Colorimetry/Color Temperature or Grayscale

Resolution


So I am beginning to wonder if resolution is really as important as people are making it out to be. But on the flip side, I love the fact that the 4900 has motorized controls for adjustment and a low lamp mode (and I wonder if that is really too washed out).


HELP! :)


Thanks for helping me make this decision!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_D /forum/post/12949160


So I am beginning to wonder if resolution is really as important as people are making it out to be.


Its the most over rated, over talked about thing on these forums.


Unless you plan on sitting 1.2X screen width or closer to your screen the benefits of the added resolution from 720p to 1080p will be nonexistent. The epson has better contrast, is brighter, is a better built machine, carries a better warranty, comes with a free spare bulb and costs less. An easy choice if you ask me. Also the exact reason I ordered the Epson myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for chiming in. I am wondering about the black levels of the Mitsubishi and the contrast. The problem is that I really need somebody that has seen both - a Mitsubishi owner and an Epson owner each will have a natural bias towards defending their own purchase.


Biglyle, I don't doubt your perceptions for a second - I am sure that you feel that way about the projector. I would love to hear from Mitsubishi owners as well.


I have to get past caring about the extra bit of resolution and the stupid motorized controls...they know how to lure you in with things that aren't really that important but are tantelizing. I also read that the HDMI on the Mitsubishi is 1.2 instead of 1.3. Anybody know if that makes a huge difference?



Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle /forum/post/12949817


Its the most over rated, over talked about thing on these forums.


Unless you plan on sitting 1.2X screen width or closer to your screen the benefits of the added resolution from 720p to 1080p will be nonexistent. The epson has better contrast, is brighter, is a better built machine, carries a better warranty, comes with a free spare bulb and costs less. An easy choice if you ask me. Also the exact reason I ordered the Epson myself.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_D /forum/post/12953348


I have to get past caring about the extra bit of resolution and the stupid motorized controls...they know how to lure you in with things that aren't really that important but are tantelizing. I also read that the HDMI on the Mitsubishi is 1.2 instead of 1.3. Anybody know if that makes a huge difference?

I am in the same boat.


1) Motorized controls might actually be beneficial for me, I intend to initially use the PJ from a coffee table and/or from multiple areas in the home. Assuming that the controls operate off of the remote, it might be worthwhile having them instead of having to get up and make adjustments everytime I setup the PJ. I wonder how often things get out of whack when PJs are ceiling mounted (focus, zoom, etc.).


2) Check this link for HDMI 1.3 enhancements:
http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/faq.aspx#15


One benefit that I see right off the bat is having to deal with fewer backward compatibility issues down the road - if you buy a newer HD DVD player etc. it is more likely to be HDMI 1.3 compliant (so it would nice to have the Epson in that case, but again, presumably this is not going to be a big deal!).
 

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With the rated contrast between the two machines, it is obvious that the Epson is better on paper, but what about black level. I hear lots of talk that the black levels of the 4900 aren't that great, but that is comparing them to other D6 or D7 LCD chips. The Epson is a D5, so are the black levels comparable or does the 4900 have a better black level. Art's review said that the 4900 was as good as any DLP DC2 and better than any other 720P LCD's (D5). I would just like to see if anyone else has seen both of these and can comment on which has a better black level. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I second that. That is the question I am dying to know. I will pull the trigger on the Epson if the black levels are better. If they are comparable on the Mitsubishi, I will have to mull it over some more (argh).


The problem is, we need soemone who has seen both. Probalby an impossible feat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fillydee /forum/post/12954305


With the rated contrast between the two machines, it is obvious that the Epson is better on paper, but what about black level. I hear lots of talk that the black levels of the 4900 aren't that great, but that is comparing them to other D6 or D7 LCD chips. The Epson is a D5, so are the black levels comparable or does the 4900 have a better black level. Art's review said that the 4900 was as good as any DLP DC2 and better than any other 720P LCD's (D5). I would just like to see if anyone else has seen both of these and can comment on which has a better black level. Thanks.
 

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The reviews I have read seem to answer your question. I keep seeing this question asked over and over and I don't get it... I have read Projector Central and Projector Reviews and they both indicate that the Mit 4900 is better. I guess they must be wrong, I guess I must be wrong... Okay I am going to read them again... Then match it up with a good screen and setup/room/mount/source... By the way, I am usually wrong according to my wife!
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Not sure I understand your post at all. Do you own both the Epson and the Mitsubishi? Non of the reviews you cite below directly compare the Epson to the Mitsubishi. Neither even mentions the other because they are in different classes. Reviewers typically don't refer to projectors in different classes in their comparisons.


The Epson is 720 and the Mitsubishi is 1080p. The question is, other then the advantage in resolution (720p vs 1080p) - which frankly doesn't matter to me because the distance to the screen relative to the size of my screen does not give me any benefit of the 1080p - are the black levels and contrast better in the Epson? It is clearly a brighter projector (1600 vs 1000 lumuns) which is a positive for the Epson - so the question is what about black level and contrast?

Quote:
Originally Posted by footfault /forum/post/12960720


The reviews I have read seem to answer your question. I keep seeing this question asked over and over and I don't get it... I have read Projector Central and Projector Reviews and they both indicate that the Mit 4900 is better. I guess they must be wrong, I guess I must be wrong... Okay I am going to read them again... Then match it up with a good screen and setup/room/mount/source... By the way, I am usually wrong according to my wife!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Anyone else have anything to say on this topic. I need to pull the trigger very soon!


Thanks so much in advance!
 

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I have owned the Mits 4900 for about three weeks. I have never seen the Epson.


You make several mentions of black levels in your posts above. If that is pretty important to you- pass on the 4900. There probably is some unit to unit variance in the 4900's ability to show acceptable black levels. I don't know any other way to account for some users reporting "inky" blacks and great black level performance, which is far from what I see. And no- I am not a black level snob or videophile. My completely uneducated (as far as HT goes) wife can clearly see the issue.


I would carefully consider how important black levels are to you before making a move on the 4900. The other aspects of it's image are outstanding- razor sharp image, excellent color saturation and accuracy and brightness should be no problem with a screen that small (no offense intended
) In fact HD material will look like a 90" plasma for your viewing pleasure.



Again- I have not seen the Epson so I have no input.


One man's opinion anyway. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I appreciate your candid response. I have heard reviewers mention unimpressive black levels as a criticism of the Mits 4900. While at the same time, reviewers have generally praised the Epson 720 on that dimension.


My biggest problem, is that the projectors are in a completely different class. The Epson 720 is a D5 class, the Mits a D6 (someone correct me if I am wrong). Black levels are very important to me - the problem I am having is comparatively speaking is the black level on the 4900 unimpressive - for that projector class but equally impressive (or better) if compared to the lower class (D5 Epson) or is it worse then the Epson despite the class?


Unfortuantely, I think I will never know unless someone sees the Epson and Mitsubishi right next to each other.


Given the deal and ratings on the Epson ($1,100 + $100 rebate + $350 lamp) that brings the effective price to $650 - I don't think I can pass on it. The 4900 is tempting, but I am thinking in 2 years I can upgrade to something else for what I am saving on the Epson.


Thanks again for chiming in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gottahavapj /forum/post/12977783


I have owned the Mits 4900 for about three weeks. I have never seen the Epson.


You make several mentions of black levels in your posts above. If that is pretty important to you- pass on the 4900. There probably is some unit to unit variance in the 4900's ability to show acceptable black levels. I don't know any other way to account for some users reporting "inky" blacks and great black level performance, which is far from what I see. And no- I am not a black level snob or videophile. My completely uneducated (as far as HT goes) wife can clearly see the issue.


I would carefully consider how important black levels are to you before making a move on the 4900. The other aspects of it's image are outstanding- razor sharp image, excellent color saturation and accuracy and brightness should be no problem with a screen that small (no offense intended
) In fact HD material will look like a 90" plasma for your viewing pleasure.



Again- I have not seen the Epson so I have no input.


One man's opinion anyway. Good luck!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_D /forum/post/12985412


Unfortuantely, I think I will never know unless someone sees the Epson and Mitsubishi right next to each other.

You have answered your own question. As long as you don't see them side by side you will never have the frame of reference to know which one has better blacks. In a dedicated room both will have blacks that appear black, both will have excellent shadow detail, and both will have a very sharp image. Any new PJ that is set up properly, calibrated, and used in a light controlled room will have blacks that appear black.


My advice is get the one that is the better deal, stop hesitating and start enjoying, and for goodness sake, STOP READING THESE FORUMS.
 

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Get both!


Those that complain about the black levels on a $1,400 1080p projector are being overly critical IMO.
 
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