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Just wondering?

Thanks
Sharpness perception is influenced by many factors: screen fabric, quality of lens, contrast, technology used, the source, seating distance, etc.

There is no issue with SDE from regular seating distance and regular screen sizes:

 

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At what distance were those two pictures taken and with what screen size?

Because this is the key.
From normal seating distances with normal screen sizes sharpness difference if it's visible, it's minor.

As I've said in other posts, sharpness perception depends on many factors, not just DLP and 3LCD.

More importantly, what is important in an image is not primarily resolution, for both SDR and HDR. The resolution argument is just cope.

Most important spec is contrast/black level:
A study of 57 movies was made, which I extrapolate to most movies and TV shows (maybe not sitcoms), with these results:

90% of movie content = 0% - 20% ADL
80% of movie content = 0% - 13% ADL
50% of movie content = 0% - 5% ADL
1/3 of movie content = 0% - 3% ADL
18% of movie content = 0 - 1.5% ADL
10% of movie content = 0% - 1% ADL
And the average ADL of movies is circa 8%.

ANSI = 50% ADL
And literally 99.9% of movie content resides below 50% ADL / ANSI
Also worth noting that these statistics relate to SDR movies... With HDR movies the ADLs are even lower than this


As you can see, most content is fairly dark.
Here's what % ADL looks like:

Anyone can look at the video above if they're worried about sharpness or SDE.

Here's two more, does it not look sharp enough? First is with 100" screen from 8'. Click on it to get the larger version and zoom in.
Second is from 1'. Source is 1080p disc upscaled.



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3061073
 

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Additionally, Epsons are much brighter, which can help with ambient light and HDR.
Epsons also have longer throw ratios that for use with ALR screens to avoid artifacts.
For the HC4000/5000/6000 series native WCG coverage is higher than most 4K DLP, and filter use is possible due to higher brightness.

It's about priorities.
 

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Just wondering?

Thanks
lol that is a misconception and I'd be glad to help you
Calibrated DLP vs Calibrated 3LCD
Both blasting 4k
There is a difference in sharpness but it is minute
 

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lol that is a misconception and I'd be glad to help you
Calibrated DLP vs Calibrated 3LCD
Both blasting 4k
There is a difference in sharpness but it is minute
Yeah and how does it look like in regular content, movies, TV, games, where it matters?
IMO for the most part the DLP vs. 3LCD sharpness/resolution SDE is a mute point.
 

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Yeah and how does it look like in regular content, movies, TV, games, where it matters?
IMO for the most part the DLP vs. 3LCD sharpness/resolution SDE is a mute point.
Well aside from agreeing with you on the SDE not existing any more
The mileage varies. DLP has some strongpoints but you need to do your homework on the wheel or light source
DLP's strength in the .47" DMD you're going to see on most projectors <$3k is the sharpness and 1080p content looks great. Cable cleans up nicely
4k content looks sharp but the HDR may not pop as much as a 3LCD. I can tune a movie so that on the Nickometer we are getting about 85% which is really not bad.
You may notice a lack of contrast though, but through tuning and bulb dimming, this can be improved.
That said, if I'm going to projectorize on the wall right now and type to you guys, I'd actually like to click over to DLP because of the text sharpness.
Certain video games like MS Flight simulator I enjoy the slight sharpness edge and since most content is bright, the contrast is somewhat moot.

Now on the flip side we have 3LCD.
The contrast is in another league. When you are watching some old films which surprises me, the contrast really is necessary because you have to differentiate heavily between low shades of gray. DLP cannot do this classically well on the smaller chipset to my knowledge... maybe the HT3350 that has a dynamic iris, but again another talk there.
Speaking of which, the dynamic iris is a big deal for movie watching and contrast.
Turn it off and you get a lot of the competitor products marketing tests that show up on google drive for starfield tests.
The sharpness is slightly less but the color saturation is second maybe only to OLED or QLED or something fancy in the TV league.
It's enough that the pop from the colors conveys emotion
The Epson is a lot to maintain though. You need to make sure to get OEM Epson parts, change your bulbs and filter at 2k hour intervals.
Warranty is bonkers cool though so I was never worried.

That about sums it up on viewing experience. There's another page worth of argument but no
SDE is like, not evident. Like at all.
 

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I have the 5040ub, and once you do a full calibration, with test patterns, and when you do panel alignment, it looks absolutely fantastic. Plenty sharp with 4k e-shift.
 

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At what distance were those two pictures taken and with what screen size?

Because this is the key.
From normal seating distances with normal screen sizes sharpness difference if it's visible, it's minor.

As I've said in other posts, sharpness perception depends on many factors, not just DLP and 3LCD.

More importantly, what is important in an image is not primarily resolution, for both SDR and HDR. The resolution argument is just cope.

Most important spec is contrast/black level:
A study of 57 movies was made, which I extrapolate to most movies and TV shows (maybe not sitcoms), with these results:

90% of movie content = 0% - 20% ADL
80% of movie content = 0% - 13% ADL
50% of movie content = 0% - 5% ADL
1/3 of movie content = 0% - 3% ADL
18% of movie content = 0 - 1.5% ADL
10% of movie content = 0% - 1% ADL
And the average ADL of movies is circa 8%.

ANSI = 50% ADL
And literally 99.9% of movie content resides below 50% ADL / ANSI
Also worth noting that these statistics relate to SDR movies... With HDR movies the ADLs are even lower than this


As you can see, most content is fairly dark.
Here's what % ADL looks like:

Anyone can look at the video above if they're worried about sharpness or SDE.

Here's two more, does it not look sharp enough? First is with 100" screen from 8'. Click on it to get the larger version and zoom in.
Second is from 1'. Source is 1080p disc upscaled.



View attachment 3061067 View attachment 3061073


I think it is content based.

4K gaming my Epson 6050UB looks terrible.
4K gaming on a native 4K device looks amazing.

4K UHD Blurays on 6050UB look great.
4K UHD blurays on a 4K device look amazing.
 

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I think it is content based.

4K gaming my Epson 6050UB looks terrible.
4K gaming on a native 4K device looks amazing.

4K UHD Blurays on 6050UB look great.
4K UHD blurays on a 4K device look amazing.
Something seems off, as my Epson 5040ub is fantastic with gaming.
 

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My Lord this argument pops up every now and then and it’s usually from some one who either owns a True 4K DLP or is considering buying one and has been told you absolutely see the difference between True 4K and Epson/JVC e-shift, BTW the pics used by @noob00224 were mine.

If anyone is debating which to buy I’d suggest ignoring forum opinions and actually get off their butt and go see both and then decide which they want. As @noob00224 said resolution is only one side of the picture so to speak and actually native contrast plays a more important role in what makes an image look great.

If anyone is in doubt whether an e-shift Epson doesn’t look good they only need watch Lucy in either 1080P or 4K to remove those doubts.

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Oh and by the way my Lucy disc is 1080P.

I’ve never used my projector for gaming so can’t comment in that respect but for movies it’s top notch and the 5050/6050 is the absolute best projector in its price bracket for movie watch.
 

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Something seems off, as my Epson 5040ub is fantastic with gaming.
I don't think so. Its just the fidelity of gaming image you are used to. I am comparing it to my 77'' CX OLED and whilst in films, the Epsons hold their own; in games they don't period.

Try RDR2 on an Epson and then on a 77'' OLED. The detail missed, even if u put the screen size to similar is astonishing. Contrast colour pop, and especially HDR details are not dealt with well on Epson.

Epsons HDR slider on 6050UB can not map the accurate time of day for TLOU2 at the start with snow scene. Always looks like evening. IF you slide it all the way to the top, then the darker scenes look bright grey.


The only way to combat this is NATIVE PANEL CONTRAST aka JVC or OLED. and most importantly DTM.

The other issue is the sharpness. 4K e shift simply doesn't apply well for games. you need native 4K lens. you can see the difference in films IF you want to look for it and have a native 4K PJ to compare to or 4K big screen. The epson oversharpens everything.. so things which should have a mild depth of field due to the camera lens focus is now in focus due to the sharpening algorithm. The only way to solve this is a 4K native lens.

even very very good image processors from brands like Sony do the same thing with oversharpening eventually as shown by the reality creation.
 

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My Lord this argument pops up every now and then and it’s usually from some one who either owns a True 4K DLP or is considering buying one and has been told you absolutely see the difference between True 4K and Epson/JVC e-shift, BTW the pics used by @noob00224 were mine.

If anyone is debating which to buy I’d suggest ignoring forum opinions and actually get off their butt and go see both and then decide which they want. As @noob00224 said resolution is only one side of the picture so to speak and actually native contrast plays a more important role in what makes an image look great.

If anyone is in doubt whether an e-shift Epson doesn’t look good they only need watch Lucy in either 1080P or 4K to remove those doubts.

View attachment 3062720 View attachment 3062721 View attachment 3062722 View attachment 3062723

Oh and by the way my Lucy disc is 1080P.

I’ve never used my projector for gaming so can’t comment in that respect but for movies it’s top notch and the 5050/6050 is the absolute best projector in its price bracket for movie watch.

I agree. For films (and games) the screen door is NOT an issue.
This screen door myth of it being visible needs to die. It is simply NOT an issue unless you are a stupid distance from the screen. I repeat screen door is NOT an issue.

Native sharpness (aka without image sharpening (or we call it enhancement in epson world)) is an issue compared to native 4K displays. It is not an issue that IMO darastically impacts films/TV. hardly noticeable because of HOW a TV/Film is produced.

However videogames extra every single detail from whatever resolution its played at and it IS noticeable if you do A/B comparisons and image enhancement (aka oversharpening a videogame) makes it look HORRIBLE and unnatural.. cos it already is unnatural lol.
 

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I agree. For films (and games) the screen door is NOT an issue.
This screen door myth of it being visible needs to die. It is simply NOT an issue unless you are a stupid distance from the screen. I repeat screen door is NOT an issue.

Native sharpness (aka without image sharpening (or we call it enhancement in epson world)) is an issue compared to native 4K displays. It is not an issue that IMO darastically impacts films/TV. hardly noticeable because of HOW a TV/Film is produced.

However videogames extra every single detail from whatever resolution its played at and it IS noticeable if you do A/B comparisons and image enhancement (aka oversharpening a videogame) makes it look HORRIBLE and unnatural.. cos it already is unnatural lol.
Like I say I never game and I think the last time I used one of the son's Playstations it was Call of Duty 2 so that lets you know how long ago that was LOL. There are many levels of Image Enhancement on offer and in each you can customise/fine tune so I think anyone could find an IE to suit even gaming in 4K.

The default sharpness in the first Image menu is set at 5, I quickly learned that adjusting this to 2 was the sweet spot. For gaming try this setting in Image Enhancement Preset 1

Leave both Noise setting at default and set the follow
Thin Line Enhancement 2 or 3
Soft Focus Detail 2 or 3
Strength 10 - 13
Range 10 - 13

Start with the lower settings and if too soft adjust each up one at a time.

For Movies my preferred Image Enhancement is Preset 2 but again I have fine tuned this further from their default settings and the images I posted are at this preset.
 
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I agree. For films (and games) the screen door is NOT an issue.
This screen door myth of it being visible needs to die. It is simply NOT an issue unless you are a stupid distance from the screen. I repeat screen door is NOT an issue.

Native sharpness (aka without image sharpening (or we call it enhancement in epson world)) is an issue compared to native 4K displays. It is not an issue that IMO darastically impacts films/TV. hardly noticeable because of HOW a TV/Film is produced.

However videogames extra every single detail from whatever resolution its played at and it IS noticeable if you do A/B comparisons and image enhancement (aka oversharpening a videogame) makes it look HORRIBLE and unnatural.. cos it already is unnatural lol.
Well, games look awesome on my calibrated 5040ub. I have no issues at all.
 

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Like I say I never game and I think the last time I used one of the son's Playstations it was Call of Duty 2 so that lets you know how long ago that was LOL. There are many levels of Image Enhancement on offer and in each you can customise/fine tune so I think anyone could find an IE to suit even gaming in 4K.

The default sharpness in the first Image menu is set at 5, I quickly learned that adjusting this to 2 was the sweet spot. For gaming try this setting in Image Enhancement Preset 1

Leave both Noise setting at default and set the follow
Thin Line Enhancement 2 or 3
Soft Focus Detail 2 or 3
Strength 10 - 13
Range 10 - 13

Start with the lower settings and if too soft adjust each up one at a time.

For Movies my preferred Image Enhancement is Preset 2 but again I have fine tuned this further from their default settings and the images I posted are at this preset.

Sharpening simply doesn't work for videogames like it does for films. A very small ammount will be okay but nothing is changing a 1080p image or a faux 4K image to look near 4K.

The jump of a 1080p well mastered Blu-ray to 4K (like Lucy) is IMO.. nothing. The colours of HDR make the difference.
The jump of a 1080p videogame to a 4K videogame is massive with or without colours of HDR.

If it did, the game developers would use it rather than having to chase resolution and graphical fidelity.
NVIDIA tried sharpening with their sharpening filter and it just didn't work out that well after a certain intensity and their sharpening filter is 100x better than anything Epson, Sony or Panasonic can think of applying to a video game because NVIDIA only care about videogames.
The only sharpening which has helped is NVIDIA's AI based DLSS sharpening algorithm which requires a super computer to process the entire game and then feed it back to the GPU.
 

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Well, games look awesome on my calibrated 5040ub. I have no issues at all.

Great mate :) I have no doubt a 5040UB or 5050UB or heck even an Optoma or BenQ will not bring joy to people gaming because the sheer phenomenal experience of having your favourite games projected in all their entirety over a gigantic space is amazing. :) But if comparing to a similar sized display which can provide or fill in the gaps for some of the short comings, the flaws become very obvious. Especially when comparing to a native 4K display.

I am for example comparing a 100' projected image to a 77'' OLED and I can downsize the 100'' to match around 77'' for comparisons.

I would LOVE to see a JVC versus the OLED as I feel the native 4K lens and infinite contrast ratio would match it.
 

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Sharpening simply doesn't work for videogames like it does for films. A very small ammount will be okay but nothing is changing a 1080p image or a faux 4K image to look near 4K.

The jump of a 1080p well mastered Blu-ray to 4K (like Lucy) is IMO.. nothing. The colours of HDR make the difference.
The jump of a 1080p videogame to a 4K videogame is massive with or without colours of HDR.

If it did, the game developers would use it rather than having to chase resolution and graphical fidelity.
NVIDIA tried sharpening with their sharpening filter and it just didn't work out that well after a certain intensity and their sharpening filter is 100x better than anything Epson, Sony or Panasonic can think of applying to a video game because NVIDIA only care about videogames.
The only sharpening which has helped is NVIDIA's AI based DLSS sharpening algorithm which requires a super computer to process the entire game and then feed it back to the GPU.


I definitely wouldn’t be choosing a DLP over the Epson simply because it’s better for gaming, I must be getting old because the idea that gaming is a priority is completely alien to me but clearly it's a big part of your usage so each to their own, for me projectors are for watching Movies and TV and everything else should be a very distance second.

Don't shoot me down in flames here but for gaming I honestly would have thought lag rate was king though again I don't play so might be wrong on this one. Maybe your best solution is biting the bullet and buying the best Native 4K projector that works well for gaming.
 

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I definitely wouldn’t be choosing a DLP over the Epson simply because it’s better for gaming, I must be getting old because the idea that gaming is a priority is completely alien to me but clearly it's a big part of your usage so each to their own, for me projectors are for watching Movies and TV and everything else should be a very distance second.

Don't shoot me down in flames here but for gaming I honestly would have thought lag rate was king though again I don't play so might be wrong on this one. Maybe your best solution is biting the bullet and buying the best Native 4K projector that works well for gaming.
"According to the latest figures, the video game business is now larger than both the movie and music industries combined, making it a major industry in entertainment. This year, the global games market is estimated to generate US$152.1 billion from 2.5 billion gamers around the world.2"

Yes looks like you might be outdated as it is a very big, popular means of entertainment for a lot of people suepposedley ;)

IMO best solution for gaming is a 77 inch OLED. Even JVC N9 lacks HDMI 2.1, VRR, 120hz, ALLM, Gsync which all improve gaming responsiveness, smoothness and tearing/visual artefacts.
Video games HDR is far more demanding than film HDR too sadly.

Input lag is important but nearly all PJ and TV brands have that well under control. 1 decade ago, they didn't but since gaming has become so popular, it is now a very important point for any display manufacturer :)

I agree, I wouldn't either. I think DLP only good for 3D motion and no crosstalk. Epson blows it out of the water and the premium lens features like vertical and horizontal lens shifts are fantastic.
 
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