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4K does look fantastic on this projector
I can really tell a difference, after watching a 2 hr 4K movie, then turning cable back on , night and day

I’m sure I’m losing some pop, but I love the picture at 160”
 

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Panasonic UB820 HDR/SDR bt2020 samples with LS10500

Here are some eye candies for you guys, this is a Epson LS10500 (i love this PJ) with Panny ub820 experimenting HDR/SDR comparison

These samples i put not exactly the same frames but you got the idea





Another













 

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Looks great. I have always admired these Epson units.


Here are some eye candies for you guys, this is a Epson LS10500 (i love this PJ) with Panny ub820 experimenting HDR/SDR comparison

These samples i put not exactly the same frames but you got the idea





Another













 

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I think it’s unfair to lump DLP XPR2/4 with fauxK JVC or Epsons.

They really do resolve 1:1 pixel patterns which qualifies as 4K in my book. This is done in a summed temporal space. No different from how RGB is recreated by DLP using a single panel.

The downsides to me are the milky greys on DLPs which is really really hard to stomach.

All that said, after getting my Sony 760ES, it’s going to be tough going to any lamp based projector.

I just wish the Epson got a lumens boost this next gen - I don’t think a true 4K panel is needed either.

Yes I have to agree here. A 3840x2160 Windows desktop looks absolutely pin sharp edge to edge with text on my Benq W11000. Looks the same if not sharper than my 65" 4k OLED displaying text through HTPC.

I have seen an LS10000 doing faux 4K and it looks very blurry in comparison. I haven't seen JVC doing faux 4K but I guess it would be similar to the Epson.
 

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They do look quite sharp - the Optoma UHD300x I saw did look pretty good detail wise (being fed via HTPC and the desktop was well rendered), but it lacked contrast and a decent black level. It did throw a nice image otherwise. Being an eshift projector with a sharp image doesn't make it a native 4K projector though which is the main issue - there's a difference between 'looking sharper' and an ability to render a test pattern or source material accurately, and none of the pixel shifters will be able to do that. So far, only a native 4K panel can do that as far as I'm aware.

With test patterns and a Windows desktop (and games too) the resolution being used to render them will be more apparent, especially when using more pixels to render it, but for video (which is what most of us use a projector for), the resolution is almost inconsequential and way down the list of what makes a good picture, which is why eshift works so well, but contrast and black levels make a visibly bigger difference which is why those qualities are usually at or near the top of what is important for most people, all else being equal.

I've seen LS10000 and JVC eshift in split screen with a native Sony 4K (all fully calibrated) and it's almost impossible to tell which one is the Sony unless you have a scene which shows up the contrast and black level differences, and then you can tell them apart. If you compare them using a static scene (lots of people standing around) and look closely, then you can just see a resolution difference, but it's very small. With any motion it's extremely difficult which is why you then have to rely on other things in the image to tell which pj is which. Contrast and black levels are usually the biggest differentiator.

There was a post in another thread which showed various projectors rendering the Quick Brown Fox test pattern and the LS10000 was marginally better than the JVCs (surprisingly), with the Sony's being a little better IIRC. I would think the eshift DLPs would do quite well there too - I'll have to see if I can run that test at some time. I would think that they could even look 'sharper' than the native 4K Sony, but that's due to the tech difference - being single chip rather than three for example. It'll be interesting to see how well the 300 for example can render a 4K black and white pixel test pattern
 

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The brown fox pattern did look very good on Soulnight's LS unit. However, I think he was also using MadVr (which is considered the gold standard for scaling) where as the JVC was not. I would like to see both eshift projectors with Madvr scaling compared to native 4K of the new JVC and Sony.
 

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The brown fox pattern did look very good on Soulnight's LS unit. However, I think he was also using MadVr (which is considered the gold standard for scaling) where as the JVC was not. I would like to see both eshift projectors with Madvr scaling compared to native 4K of the new JVC and Sony.
I played the 4K pattern with the windows picture viewer and with mpc-be (madvr).

BUT: The brown fox pattern I played was native 4K with RGB outputs (and so was the JVC and Sony ones used in the same comparison).
Neither did windows, madvr or the projector have to do any scaling.

You can use a 1080p pattern if you want to look at upscaling capabilities.
But with the 4K pattern, the goal is see to how the projector resolve the 4K resolution given a 4K signal.

But the end point is: the Epson LS10000 when fed with native 4K RGB signal is pretty sharp and does an excellent with it's E-shift.
Much better than any JVC (not counting the 4k and not even considering that the JVC create picture noise but the Epson does not) and pretty close to the native 4K of the Sony (probably because they use cheap lens).

:)

ps: Epson internal 4K upscaling is very bad and makes the picture blurry and noisy.
It was a very bad move from Epson at the time especially with Sony having great 4K upscaler.
With madvr or a panasonic 4K player, upscaling is excellent and the Epson can then demonstrate what it can REALLY do. :)
 

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Here are some eye candies for you guys, this is a Epson LS10500 (i love this PJ) with Panny ub820 experimenting HDR/SDR comparison

These samples i put not exactly the same frames but you got the idea





What settings do you use to view UHDs?
On the player and on the vpj,
On Epson do you use EDID 1 or 2?

Thanks
 

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But the end point is: the Epson LS10000 when fed with native 4K RGB signal is pretty sharp and does an excellent with it's E-shift.
Much better than any JVC (not counting the 4k and not even considering that the JVC create picture noise but the Epson does not) and pretty close to the native 4K of the Sony (probably because they use cheap lens).
That's interesting because Cine4home found some shots where JVC eshift 3 (which everyone concedes in not as sharp/detailed as eshift 4 or 5) was slightly more detailed than the LS10000. Although in some shots, the LS10000 was better. So kind of mixed. Claiming the LS10000 is "much better" than a newer JVC eshift is a bold claim. When I did a shootout at home with the RS400 (eshift4) vs the LS10000, I found the JVC to be a bit sharper and didn't see any additional noise from my regular seating position. Because the JVC was a little sharper, I did find it capable of resolving film grain better which some do find intrusive.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/sony_vw300_epson_ls10000_jvc_x500/epson_eh_ls10000_vs_jvc_dla_x500_vs_sony_vpl_vw300.htm
 

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That's interesting because Cine4home found some shots where JVC eshift 3 (which everyone concedes in not as sharp/detailed as eshift 4 or 5) was slightly more detailed than the LS10000. Although in some shots, the LS10000 was better. So kind of mixed. Claiming the LS10000 is "much better" than a newer JVC eshift is a bold claim. When I did a shootout at home with the RS400 (eshift4) vs the LS10000, I found the JVC to be a bit sharper and didn't see any additional noise from my regular seating position. Because the JVC was a little sharper, I did find it capable of resolving film grain better which some do find intrusive.

http://www.cine4home.de/tests/projektoren/sony_vw300_epson_ls10000_jvc_x500/epson_eh_ls10000_vs_jvc_dla_x500_vs_sony_vpl_vw300.htm
Not sure that Ekki has used 4k RGB input for this comparison. ;-) Very important point as I wrote earlier for the Epson ls10000.

And jvc have very visible video noise to me. But I guess some people are less sensitive to it.

:)

Like for sparkles for alr screen: some don't see anything and for example I find the stewart 130 screen to provide a dirty/ sparkly picture.

But I don't want to make bold claims. If you have seen the opposite than my personal experience. That's also fine.

Cheers ;-)
 

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Not sure that Ekki has used 4k RGB input for this comparison. ;-) Very important point as I wrote earlier for the Epson ls10000.

And jvc have very visible video noise to me. But I guess some people are less sensitive to it.

:)

Like for sparkles for alr screen: some don't see anything and for example I find the stewart 130 screen to provide a dirty/ sparkly picture.

But I don't want to make bold claims. If you have seen the opposite than my personal experience. That's also fine.

Cheers ;-)
Well, we can definitely agree on the screen sparklies as I hate them - which is why I use the ST100. :)
 

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And jvc have very visible video noise to me. But I guess some people are less sensitive to it.

:)
Me too. I've always been a bit sensitive to image noise since the days of DVD and mpg compression, and the LS give a very analogue and noise free image which appears more 'solid' and stable (no micro flicker either), especially in a split screen comparison. When you compare them like that, what looks like possible grain on the JVC isn't on the LS so is added noise.

I like the greater contrast of the mid to high range JVCs, but would rather have less contrast than more noise, since the noise is moving and a distraction. But like you say, I guess not everyone is as sensitive to it, and most people will usually go for the higher contrast display.
 

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My neighbor came over yesterday and saw the pq of red dead redemption on this projector

He was amazed, didn’t know projectors had such good pq
 

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You can do HDR or SDR bt2020 on the player setup, whichever picture you like better.
On Epson edid-1
Thanks,

So you display UHD material in SDR-BT.2020?
If I'm not mistaken, EDID 1 is used to display in Rec.709 and SDR-BT.2020, while EDID 2 is used to display in HDR-BT.2020.
Which color space do you place on the Epson with the UHD?
HDMI extended or normal?

Finally, could you tell me patterns to adjust Brightness and Contrast in UHD?

Thank you
 

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You can do HDR or SDR bt2020 on the player setup, whichever picture you like better.
On Epson edid-1
Thanks,

So you display UHD material in SDR-BT.2020?
If I'm not mistaken, EDID 1 is used to display in Rec.709 and SDR-BT.2020, while EDID 2 is used to display in HDR-BT.2020.
Which color space do you place on the Epson with the UHD?
HDMI extended or normal?

Finally, could you tell me patterns to adjust Brightness and Contrast in UHD?

Thank you
EDID 1 is for HDR material, which only comes in the BT2020 space. This is according to Epson’s official LS10500 manual.

So, EDID 1 is for UHD HDR material, and it’s where my projector is set whether it be 4K disc, Blu-ray Disc, or any stream. You can always set the projector to SDR within EDID 1.

I always display HDR content as an HDR input into the LS, I never strip the metadata and tone map before sending the signal to the LS and have had EXCELLENT results.
 

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EDID 1 is for HDR material, which only comes in the BT2020 space. This is according to Epson’s official LS10500 manual.

So, EDID 1 is for UHD HDR material, and it’s where my projector is set whether it be 4K disc, Blu-ray Disc, or any stream. You can always set the projector to SDR within EDID 1.

I always display HDR content as an HDR input into the LS, I never strip the metadata and tone map before sending the signal to the LS and have had EXCELLENT results.
Ok, thanks for the explanation.
(Sorry I had made confusion between EDID 1 and 2)
I use an HTPC as a player, so today I bought a new GPU (AMD RX 580).
I've never tried a BD UHD yet.
Is there anyone here who uses MadVr and could you tell me the best settings or share their own, for UHD HDR material with the 10500?
Thank you
 

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Thanks,



So you display UHD material in SDR-BT.2020?

If I'm not mistaken, EDID 1 is used to display in Rec.709 and SDR-BT.2020, while EDID 2 is used to display in HDR-BT.2020.

Which color space do you place on the Epson with the UHD?

HDMI extended or normal?



Finally, could you tell me patterns to adjust Brightness and Contrast in UHD?




Thank you

Set it to HDMI Normal (16-235 Video levels). The EDID settings you’ve already discussed are the ones associated with SDR and HDR bandwidths. The Extended and Normal settings are for setting Dynamic Range of the signal. These are called different things on different manufacturers units, so it can be very confusing.

I would download the Ryan Masciola UHD HDR Test Pattern Suite here to set black, white levels and other user settings as well as many other pro test patterns:

http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com

Go into the Basic Patterns menu and you’ll see pattern options for setting black and white clipping. You want to see the bar just above 0% ever so slightly flashing for the black setting and I would say to have the last bar of the white clipping pattern be flashing somewhere between 1,000 - 1,200 nits. Set it to what you like best to avoid blowing out whites specular highlights in things like the clouds in The Revenant movie. You may have to adjust this a few times the more discs you watch since they vary in their mastering and can clip at different points and mastered at 1,000, 4,000 and 10,000 nits.

In the meantime you can also put in any Sony/Columbia Tristar disc and when at the menu, hit 7669 (spells Sony) on the remote and it will bring up some basic test patterns you can use.
 

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Set it to HDMI Normal (16-235 Video levels). The EDID settings you’ve already discussed are the ones associated with SDR and HDR bandwidths. The Extended and Normal settings are for setting Dynamic Range of the signal. These are called different things on different manufacturers units, so it can be very confusing.

I would download the Ryan Masciola UHD HDR Test Pattern Suite here to set black, white levels and other user settings as well as many other pro test patterns:

http://diversifiedvideosolutions.com

Go into the Basic Patterns menu and you’ll see pattern options for setting black and white clipping. You want to see the bar just above 0% ever so slightly flashing for the black setting and I would say to have the last bar of the white clipping pattern be flashing somewhere between 1,000 - 1,200 nits. Set it to what you like best to avoid blowing out whites specular highlights in things like the clouds in The Revenant movie. You may have to adjust this a few times the more discs you watch since they vary in their mastering and can clip at different points and mastered at 1,000, 4,000 and 10,000 nits.

In the meantime you can also put in any Sony/Columbia Tristar disc and when at the menu, hit 7669 (spells Sony) on the remote and it will bring up some basic test patterns you can use.

Thank you so much Dave.

Can someone using MadVr recommend to me the settings that go well with the 10500?
I have an AMD RX580 gpu, Win7 64bit
 
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