[John Moschella]

I spent a long time last night playing with the Audyssey on my Denon 2808ci. I thought it did a great job identifying speaker positions and setting levels. When I checked levels with an SPL meter they were within 1-2 dB. It did identified my center speaker as large ( I think it only has 5" drivers) which I though was a little strange.


The equalization was not that good. It boosted 2k by 6 dB (ouch!) and cut the base to shreds. I checked the bass equalization with my Velodyne spectrum analyzer, and while it was reasonably flat, the overall balance of base and mid/treble was way off. I manually EQed the base using the Velodyne analyzer and then set everything above 250 Hz. to flat. I got a chance to A/B the Audyssey EQ, manual EQ, and no EQ with music. The Audyssey was quite awful while the manual settings were pretty good.


This system should work better so I figure it has to be mic mounting and positioning. I didn't use a tripod. I had the mike on a stool for some positions and on a box for others. I'll try to get hold of a tripod and give it another shot.


Are people happy with the Audyssey EQ? Interested in feedback on this.

 

[JOHNnDENVER]

All I will say? If your room is really bad? It whacks it out.


The setting to large is common, but that can be easily changed and still reap the benefits of it's EQ.


The fact it got your speaker distances correct is a good sign, if the room is real bad this will be way way off.


I had zero luck with it in my living room, but once I got my sound proofed and treated dedicated theater going, it was Audessey bliss for me. well except I like to run my subs way hot.

 

[fyzziks]



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella /forum/post/12917220


This system should work better so I figure it has to be mic mounting and positioning. I didn't use a tripod. I had the mike on a stool for some positions and on a box for others. I'll try to get hold of a tripod and give it another shot.


Are people happy with the Audyssey EQ? Interested in feedback on this.

Many have had good results with Audyssey, but not usually with the mic on a box or stool. Tripod or mic stand seem to work significantly better. Chris from Audyssey has been hanging out on the Audyssey thread lately, been very helpful to lots of folks. He'll probably show up here with some ideas, but if not, maybe you can repost your question there.

 

[Kal Rubinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella /forum/post/12917220


I spent a long time last night playing with the Audyssey on my Denon 2808ci. I thought it did a great job identifying speaker positions and setting levels. When I checked levels with an SPL meter they were within 1-2 dB. It did identified my center speaker as large ( I think it only has 5" drivers) which I though was a little strange.


The equalization was not that good. It boosted 2k by 6 dB (ouch!) and cut the base to shreds. I checked the bass equalization with my Velodyne spectrum analyzer, and while it was reasonably flat, the overall balance of base and mid/treble was way off. I manually EQed the base using the Velodyne analyzer and then set everything above 250 Hz. to flat. I got a chance to A/B the Audyssey EQ, manual EQ, and no EQ with music. The Audyssey was quite awful while the manual settings were pretty good.


This system should work better so I figure it has to be mic mounting and positioning. I didn't use a tripod. I had the mike on a stool for some positions and on a box for others. I'll try to get hold of a tripod and give it another shot.


Are people happy with the Audyssey EQ? Interested in feedback on this.

The stool is a no-no. Also, a lot depends on proximity of room boundaries, number of mic positions/orientations and basic room acoustics. The biggest problem with Audyssey, imho, is the implication in all the manuals that it is a no-brainer. Note that, in order for custom installers to get Audyssey-licensed for Pro installations, they must take a course. There should be an on-line version to educate all Audyssey users. The best available alternative is the Audyssey thread here on AVS.

 

[John Moschella]

Thanks,

My bad for not checking the Audyssey thread. I'm going to give it another shot with a tripod tonight.


The room is pretty good. I have diffusive treatments on the back walls and the corner treatments. The walls are real wood panels with some drywall. My dedicated listening room is adjacent so I've been borrowing the spectrum analyzer with the DD-12 to look at the base curves. I wish Denon had included a way for us to look at the curves after the Audyssey correction or even better without the correction. I just couldn't believe the big boost at 2k it was giving me.


Anyway, I trust my ears more than anything and know what good music reproduction sounds like. Even though I don't use this system for music, just movies, my feeling is that music should be reproduced faithfully if properly set up.

 

[JOHNnDENVER]

Run it again with the tripod. The stool alone could have caused the 2K-ish spike it applied.


When it's running, be as quiet as possible, ambient noise will whack it out too. Being quiet during the lengthy process is more challenging than it seems I can assue you.

 

[atdamico]



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella /forum/post/12917220


I spent a long time last night playing with the Audyssey on my Denon 2808ci. I thought it did a great job identifying speaker positions and setting levels. When I checked levels with an SPL meter they were within 1-2 dB. It did identified my center speaker as large ( I think it only has 5" drivers) which I though was a little strange.


The equalization was not that good. It boosted 2k by 6 dB (ouch!) and cut the base to shreds. I checked the bass equalization with my Velodyne spectrum analyzer, and while it was reasonably flat, the overall balance of base and mid/treble was way off. I manually EQed the base using the Velodyne analyzer and then set everything above 250 Hz. to flat. I got a chance to A/B the Audyssey EQ, manual EQ, and no EQ with music. The Audyssey was quite awful while the manual settings were pretty good.


This system should work better so I figure it has to be mic mounting and positioning. I didn't use a tripod. I had the mike on a stool for some positions and on a box for others. I'll try to get hold of a tripod and give it another shot.


Are people happy with the Audyssey EQ? Interested in feedback on this.

This is exactlly what happened with me as well. I had the mic on a tripod and took samplings from 6 seperate areas. I redid this test at least a dozen times over the course of a year as I wanted to give myself enough time to adjust to the settings. I was never able to dial in my sub correctly. And without the Audyssey, the Denon was just lifeless in my room. I even went so far as to purhase a seperate power amp and try the Denon (3806) as a prepro. I sold the Denon and moved back to seperates. The bass management that I get with my Anthem works for me, and things are much more involving these days. But this is just my experience and it seems to match yours exactly.

 

[John Moschella]



Quote:
Originally Posted by atdamico /forum/post/12920125


This is exactlly what happened with me as well. I had the mic on a tripod and took samplings from 6 seperate areas. I redid this test at least a dozen times over the course of a year as I wanted to give myself enough time to adjust to the settings. I was never able to dial in my sub correctly. And without the Audyssey, the Denon was just lifeless in my room. I even went so far as to purhase a seperate power amp and try the Denon (3806) as a prepro. I sold the Denon and moved back to seperates. The bass management that I get with my Anthem works for me, and things are much more involving these days. But this is just my experience and it seems to match yours exactly.

That is interesting. I'm using the Denon as a prepro as its hooked to a Proceed Amp2 and Amp3. I wanted HDMI audio 1.3a for Blu-ray and there is not much of a selection of prepro's that will do this.


OK, so armed with a tripod I re-did the Audyssey set up taking 8 measurements. I thought the bass equalization was very good, but still there were some serious midrange issues. Male vocals sounded hollow and thin when I listened to music. I transfered the settings to the manual EQ and set all the >500 Hz back to flat. Check the bass EQ with the Velodyne analyzer. Definite improvement over the Audyssey and no EQ settings. It was a lot of fun to play with and helped me a bit with the

 

[Kal Rubinson]

1. It is worth a re-do or two.

2. You cannot transfer anything from Audyssey since there is no readout. What you see is an incredibly rough translation of the Audyssey filters into the extremely limited GEQ format of the manual EQ.

 

[John Moschella]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/12928100


1. It is worth a re-do or two.

2. You cannot transfer anything from Audyssey since there is no readout. What you see is an incredibly rough translation of the Audyssey filters into the extremely limited GEQ format of the manual EQ.

Kal,

About point 2, I fully understand as I read the FAQ and know the manual EQ is crude.


What are you're suggestions for a re-do? I have to change something or presumably I will get the same results. The room is not too dead or lively. I feel it only needs tweaking while the Audyssey EQ is changing things dramatically in the mid-to-upper range.


The room is 23x14, with L/R/C along the long dimension. The screen is 8' wide so the L/R are separated by about 11' and centered on the 23' dimension. The seating position is centered and 3' from the back wall.


I tried mic positions on either side (and parallel) to the seating position, and in front of these positions by about 2'.


As I have said Audyssey has correctly measured speaker positions and set levels.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

What furnishings and wall treatments do you have? I am thinking that, perhaps, a reflection from a hard surface influenced the measurements resulting in the midrange issues. Also, try above/below the listening position.

 

[John Moschella]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/12930452


What furnishings and wall treatments do you have? I am thinking that, perhaps, a reflection from a hard surface influenced the measurements resulting in the midrange issues. Also, try above/below the listening position.

Kal,


There is a couch and recliner in parallel to the seating position. On the wall behind the couch I have 4 ASC sound panels http://www.asc-hifi.com/sound-panel.htm I love these things, the diffuse reflections without deadening the room. In the corners I have what used to be called Corner Tunes (not sure if you can still get them). The side walls are pretty far from the listening position and there is only a window with drapes on one side. This is a dedicated theater room and I built it specifically for theater in my walk-out basement. The treatments were installed and tuned by ear, its not nearly as good as my dedicated listening room which is 2-channel with speaker positions optimized. In this case speaker positions were dictated by theater aesthetics.


Also, I did the last Audyssey test in an empty house, so no outside noise.


Lowering the mic sounds like a good idea.

 

[noah katz]

"I have to change something or presumably I will get the same results."


It's my impression that that's not a safe assumption.

 

[Kal Rubinson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz /forum/post/12934176


"I have to change something or presumably I will get the same results."


It's my impression that that's not a safe assumption.

Nor mine.

 

[John Moschella]



Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz /forum/post/12934176


"I have to change something or presumably I will get the same results."


It's my impression that that's not a safe assumption.

So you're telling me that If I make the same set of measurements twice, using the same mic positions, that I will get different results. If true then something is very wrong.

 

[fyzziks]



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella /forum/post/12939448


So you're telling me that If I make the same set of measurements twice, using the same mic positions, that I will get different results. If true then something is very wrong.

No, you would get the same results if you place the mic in the exact same locations, with the same ambient noise conditions. The problem is that very small changes in position and orientation of the mic can produce different results, and different ambient noise levels (or noise events) can also alter the measurements.

 

[EdS]



Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella /forum/post/12939448


So you're telling me that If I make the same set of measurements twice, using the same mic positions, that I will get different results. If true then something is very wrong.

I think that what Noah & Kal (and myself) are saying is that you will never run Audyssey with the mic in the identical (not similar, but identical) positions and orientation, small differences in room furnishing (positions of pillows, ottomans, chairs, etc., plus the ambient noise may have subtle differences that are not obvious. I've been using Audyssey on a Denon 4306 for about the past 18 mos, I've rerun it a couple of times due to changes with both my equipment and room position/furnishings. My results have been similar between each run, but never identical. The speaker distances and levels have always been the same, and using the Graphic EQ depiction of the Audyssey results show that Audyssey is boosting/attenuating the same frequency bands, however the amount of boost/attenuation are different, usually within a couple dB or less.


Having said all that, I prefer listening to my system with Audyssey engaged, both for music and movies. It equalizes the sub at least as well as I was able to do with a BFD, smoothes out the speaker response, and integrates them together for multi-channel music & movies.