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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As another poster has recently mentioned, ESPN's on-screen graphics pose a potential burn-in threat to plasma TVs. This poster watched 6 hours of Australian Open coverage on ESPN and found that the ESPN logo was burned into his Fujitsu plasma. I'm a huge tennis fan and have also been watching ESPN's AO coverage for the past week or so and have been worried about the burn-in threat of ESPN's static on-screen graphics. It got to the point where I was enjoying tennis less and obsessing over the burn-in threat. Anyway, I'm happy to report that I found a combination of stretch mode and vertical positioning adjustment on my Hitachi 42HDT55 that has completely eliminated the on-screen graphics (including the "Australian Open Live" graphic they've been running continuously in the top-right corner of the screen):


Aspect Mode = 4:3 Zoom1

Vertical Position = -2


The 4:3 Zoom1 mode shows almost no image distortion. Occasionally a player's head is a little bit chopped off, but rarely. Anyway, thought I'd share this with other Hitachi owners/tennis fans who are worried about burn-in while watching the Australian Open. Go Federer!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by kilmar
Does the Hitachi have a wobbler setting?
Yes, it has three settings. I use the most aggressive one which shifts the image 2 pixels every 20 minutes. Still don't like the 'static' on-screen images, which is why I went to some effort to get them off the screen.
 

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I did something like that with the FOX football games this to year to get rid of that idiotic undocked scoreboard at the top of the screen. That way I didn't have to watch ten special lighting effects on the scoreboard between plays, either.
 

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I was interested in buying a plasma for a long time. But spending $11 grand on a TV and having to worry about burn-in irks me to no end.


LCD's are looking better and better to me. The only limitation is their small size. So I sit and wait for the new, larger LCD models.
 

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Thanks for the info Chasin. StockInv I agree with you on spending all that money and have to worry about burn-in, the problem with LCD though is in my opinion bad picture quality, which again doesnt justify its price. I guess in due time both technologies will mature with better prices, but unfortnately I didnt have the patience. Will also be interesting to see what Intel's LCOS will be like, but I think thats also 2 years down the line to bring to market and tweak etc etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by StockInv
I was interested in buying a plasma for a long time. But spending $11 grand on a TV and having to worry about burn-in irks me to no end.
Everything's a trade-off. I wanted the slim form-factor and superb picture quality of a plasma TV, and was willing to put up with the minor inconvenience of guarding against burn-in to get it. But you can't go by me, I still listen to music via a tube and vinyl-based audio system, so I'm not exactly the set-it-and-forget-it type :)
 

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chasin,


Sorry I ruined your tennis. :) That was my post about the AO. I am unhappy to report after 2 days now ESPN2 is still there. It appears to be fading though. I did not use the white screen as suggested by the Fuji tech. I was waiting until tomorrow night. There is a tech coming over to look at it.


Again you can only see it with no signal when the panel is dark.


I thought i researched this pretty well but I guess I missed something. I have been doing a little testing and research. Tonight the Food Channel was on for about 1 1/2 hours and low and behold leave the PDP on and turn off the signal, there is the "Food logo" in the circle on the bottom right corner. I never knew there were so many logos. All in the same general location.


I too use zoom and screen shift to remove the graphics, but I am not happy about having to do it. I have spent many years watching a CRT and never once worried about or experienced burn in and CRT's are susceptible to it as well. I remember the old days when the DOS prompt was permanently etched in the upper left corner.... Now that was burn in.


If some one could please explain the difference between "burn in" and "image retention" before my return period is up and tell me which I am experiencing, I would greatly appreciate it


Thanks,


Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Gryphonz
chasin,


Sorry I ruined your tennis. :)
Nah, I was worried about this problem before I read your post :)
Quote:


Tonight the Food Channel was on for about 1 1/2 hours and low and behold leave the PDP on and turn off the signal, there is the "Food logo" in the circle on the bottom right corner.
Now this is strange. After only 1.5 hours? Are you using the Fujitsu's wobbler (I assume it has one)? Are you sure you've calibrated the contrast on your display? Did the logo fade after a few minutes or is it still there? I've watched lots of channels with station logos (my wife is particularly fond of HGTV, which has a logo, albeit a fairly transparent one), and I've seen no signs of retention/burn-in from it. But I've calibrated for contrast and always use my plasma's wobbler.
Quote:


I too use zoom and screen shift to remove the graphics, but I am not happy about having to do it.
It is a bit of a pain, but I'm willing to do it to protect my investment.
Quote:


I have spent many years watching a CRT and never once worried about or experienced burn in and CRT's are susceptible to it as well.
It seems as though plasmas are far more susceptible to burn-in than CRTs are.
Quote:


If some one could please explain the difference between "burn in" and "image retention" before my return period is up and tell me which I am experiencing, I would greatly appreciate it
My understanding is that 'image retention' is a temporary condition, whereas burn-in is permanent. I've experienced temporary image retention from viewing 2.35:1 movies, etc. but that always faded pretty quickly once I displayed a full-screen image. Cases of permanent 'burn-in', seem to be pretty rare - at least judging by the experiences of people on this forum.
 

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I'm just wondering, how does the 'wobbler' function help reduce burn-in from a logo? If it only moves the image 1 or 2 pixels, wouldn't the vast majority of the logo area remain on? Or am I missing something?


Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by msteelefl
I'm just wondering, how does the 'wobbler' function help reduce burn-in from a logo? If it only moves the image 1 or 2 pixels, wouldn't the vast majority of the logo area remain on? Or am I missing something?

Mark
I've actually wondered about that too. I don't know the algorithm the typical wobbler uses, but I assume it moves the image around randomly a couple of pixels every so many minutes. I agree, though, that depending on the shape/size of the logo and the algorithm used, some portion of the screen could still be always on, regardless of the image's movement. I'm sure it's imperfect, but it's better than nothing...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kilmar
Does the Hitachi have a wobbler setting?
I don't quite understand how the wobblers or orbiters can eliminate burn in since they only move the image a few pixels. If the logo is 25 pixels wide and largely a single solid color, the wobbler would not change the majority of pixels.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bill Ball
I don't quite understand how the wobblers or orbiters can eliminate burn in since they only move the image a few pixels. If the logo is 25 pixels wide and largely a single solid color, the wobbler would not change the majority of pixels.


Bill
Ooops! Looks like a couple of us are wondering.
 

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In the Hitachi the "wobbler" is orbital in nature. The manual explains it: down, left, up, right, down, and so on. Admittedly, it doesn't move the image much but it may be better than nothing. Again, keep the contrast below clipping/crushing levels. If the TV doesn't look good with the contrast below crushing levels, move on to another set.


No problems with burn in on the Hitachi at this time.
 

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Unfortunately, according to the manual, the "screen orbiter" on the Fuji is only available through the RGB inputs not in S-video, component or composite.


My settings are well below the factory torch settings of 0. Contrast, brightness and color are all well into the negatives. If anyone has some baseline settings for the Fuji P42HHA30 it would be much appreciated. I have been using the method illustrated on the FAQ.


I broke one of my cardinal rules here. Don't go looking for something, you might find it.


Oh yes ESPN2 appears to be gone. The "Food" logo is now replaced with "WB17 NEWS". I am starting to think it is residual and not burn in.


Sorry for all this. I guess it's just the learning curve of plasma ownership.


Why don't dealers inform you of these things?


Thanks again, Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Gryphonz
Unfortunately, according to the manual, the "screen orbiter" on the Fuji is only available through the RGB inputs not in S-video, component or composite.
That's unfortunate.

Quote:


Oh yes ESPN2 appears to be gone. The "Food" logo is now replaced with "WB17 NEWS". I am starting to think it is residual and not burn in.
That's good news!

Quote:


Why don't dealers inform you of these things?
Good ones do. I remember when I was first looking for a plasma about a year or so ago, I went into a local store that sold Panasonic, and Fujitsu plasmas and the salesman flatly stated that plasmas weren't ready for primetime (citing burn-in issues, etc.) and that I shouldn't buy one! I was shocked! These guys sold two of the best plasmas out there and he's telling me not to buy one? Some sales guys are just too honest for their own good. Anyway, I ignored his advice and bought a Hitachi plasma about a year later. I'm glad I did, it's given me many hours of enjoyment to date.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Gryphonz
Unfortunately, according to the manual, the "screen orbiter" on the Fuji is only available through the RGB inputs not in S-video, component or composite.


My settings are well below the factory torch settings of 0. Contrast, brightness and color are all well into the negatives. If anyone has some baseline settings for the Fuji P42HHA30 it would be much appreciated. I have been using the method illustrated on the FAQ.


I broke one of my cardinal rules here. Don't go looking for something, you might find it.


Oh yes ESPN2 appears to be gone. The "Food" logo is now replaced with "WB17 NEWS". I am starting to think it is residual and not burn in.


Sorry for all this. I guess it's just the learning curve of plasma ownership.


Why don't dealers inform you of these things?


Thanks again, Scott


"Why don't dealers inform you of these things?"


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Quick Update...


Tech came over and looked at it Wednesday and did some research on his side.


Just as I was prepared to adjust my viewing habits, the dealer informs me they are not happy with it. They are swapping it out and extending the time on their return policy.


Stand-up dealer in my book...
 
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