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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been a plasma fan for years and I have come SOOO close over the last few years to jumping on a Panny or most recently the 5080. But with all of the advantages of Plasma, and there are many, and the recent improvements with the black levels I almost never hear anyone making an issue out of Brightness, and not just brightness but the QUALITY of the the whites.


I am not trying to start an LCD vs Plasma flame war- we've all had enough of those. But I was comparing the 5080 and an XBR4 with a snow video the other day and I could not get over how much more realistic the whites were on the LCD- the pioneer just looked grey in comparison. And yes it was in a darker store and yes I even played with the brightness settings and the difference between the whites, in the LCD favor, was as obvious as the difference between the blacks, in the plasma's favor.


Bottomline I get the benefits of deep blacks and contrast ratios, but if the whites just look grey on plasma set, why is it not an issue for most people. All you hear about anymore is black levels. Is brightness just not important?Am I off-base?
 

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My HDCRT has amazing brightness and blacks, something Plasma and LCD can't yet deliver.

I would say that LCD is better, because at a contrast ratio native of 3000:1, the blacks are good enough and the screen is nice and bright at 500cd/m2. The Plasma's have great blacks but not good enough brightness. Maybe next generation panels for Plasma will be brighter.
 

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A properly calibrated plasma will deliver a more accurate picture, and that includes whites. Whites on such a plasma will not look grey. They will look different than the hyper-bright often bluish whites you will often see on LCDs, but a properly calibrated LCD will also not display whites like that. I can understand why an LCD's whites might be more appealing in certain circumstances, but it's not necessarily an accurate picture.
 

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If brightness were my main concern I would just watch tv on my 20" desktop lcd. I really don't like a tv lighting up the entire room so plasma suits me just fine..
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I have seen many professionally calibrated plasmas over the years and none of them handled true pure snow white the way an LCD can. And I'm not talking about overclocked brightness on Big Box displays to wow the tourists. I'm talking realistic, accurate whites. Like I said I'd love for a plasma to excel in this area as it's the only weakness in the technology to my eyes- and if it didn't bother me I'd buy one tomorrow.
 

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I for one want brighter plasmas with whiter whites. That's definitely an area that plasma needs to improve in without a doubt!
 

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The upcoming 10 Lumen Tech plasmas that will be hitting shelves in the next 2 or 3 years should solve your concerns with brightness. I believe the up coming panasonic models are already 30% brighter than last years.
 

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Well, you must mean the kuro people go on incessantly about black levels. People like myself look and the complete picture which includes brightness as well.
 

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If you watch in a bright room all the time, then an LCD is probably a better choice. No mystery there.


My plasma is plenty bright in my room during the day even at normal contrast settings. The whites look great to me. I have to bring it down at night because it is too bright, brighter than my Loewe Aconda CRT set was without a doubt. On the other hand, it didn't look nearly as bright next to the LCD displays in the showroom.


If you want a very bright set that also has good black levels, check out the Samsung 81 series.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amras /forum/post/12935596


But with all of the advantages of Plasma, and there are many, and the recent improvements with the black levels I almost never hear anyone making an issue out of Brightness, and not just brightness but the QUALITY of the the whites.


But I was comparing the 5080 and an XBR4 with a snow video the other day and I could not get over how much more realistic the whites were on the LCD- the pioneer just looked grey in comparison..


Bottomline I get the benefits of deep blacks and contrast ratios, but if the whites just look grey on plasma set, why is it not an issue for most people. All you hear about anymore is black levels. Is brightness just not important?Am I off-base?

I was stunned when my local BB had the 52" Sammy 81 series next to a Pio Kuro. They were playing the movie "8 Below" on a Pio blu ray and it was like night and day between the two TV's.

"8 Below" was flimed in the Article Pole and was mostly a white movie. On the Sammy it was stunning dispaly what an LCD can do. The Pio was so far behind in PQ.


I tried plasma before LCD and I know that the LCD "pop" is from white levels and I can't ever go back and lose what I've come to love about LCD. With the Sammy you get both black level and white levels.


Its only going to get better for LED LCD and plasma has catching up to do in the white level area. And from reading the latest news from CES its not going to be till 2009 for plasma to improve so called brightness.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonde /forum/post/12935625


My HDCRT has amazing brightness and blacks, something Plasma and LCD can't yet deliver.

I would say that LCD is better, because at a contrast ratio native of 3000:1, the blacks are good enough and the screen is nice and bright at 500cd/m2. The Plasma's have great blacks but not good enough brightness. Maybe next generation panels for Plasma will be brighter.

I must have had a crappy HDCRT because the blacks were no where near as dark as even my 5064. Not sure what you mean by brightness because IMO most are too bright. I've got the settings at 48 right now on brightness and thats the post break in settings. LCD is definately blindingly bright in most instances and need to be tuned down.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband /forum/post/12937823


I was stunned when my local BB had the 52" Sammy 81 series next to a Pio Kuro. They were playing the movie "8 Below" on a Pio blu ray and it was like night and day between the two TV's.

"8 Below" was flimed in the Article Pole and was mostly a white movie. On the Sammy it was stunning dispaly what an LCD can do. The Pio was so far behind in PQ.


I tried plasma before LCD and I know that the LCD "pop" is from white levels and I can't ever go back and lose what I've come to love about LCD. With the Sammy you get both black level and white levels.


Its only going to get better for LED LCD and plasma has catching up to do in the white level area. And from reading the latest news from CES its not going to be till 2009 for plasma to improve so called brightness.


My only issue with the 5281 was $$$. It looked awesome. Even the 5271 was very respectable for my preferences and it was a very close call for me between it at the Pioneer. I've even considered trading up for the 5271 before my return period is over, but I probably won't. The Pioneer looks awesome with no deal breaking PQ issues. Maybe the 5271 would be better, but there's also a good chance I'd be annoyed by some aspect of the set. Why spend another $700 for headaches when I'm happy now, but the grass always seems greener on the other side...


Keep in mind that plasmas limit peak white levels on full field white content. On typical content where only a portion of the screen is full-on white, the peak level is significantly higher. LCDs generally don't have this limitation, so not only are they brighter to start, but appear significantly brighter on snow scenes and others that are mostly white. I know my CRT set was not as bright as my plasma, even on full field whites. Black levels are similar.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/12936291


Well, you must mean the kuro people go on incessantly about black levels. People like myself look and the complete picture which includes brightness as well.

They talk about it a lot because it's the latest issue that Pioneer addressed. It makes no sense to conclude that this focus means that the complete picture is ignored by these people. If Pioneer's complete picture wasn't generally superior, they'd never be able to command the premium they do.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/12936291


Well, you must mean the kuro people go on incessantly about black levels. People like myself look and the complete picture which includes brightness as well.

Just because someone else bought a Kuro and not your beloved Samsung doesn't mean they didn't consider the "complete picture". I'm more than satisfied with the Kuro's brightness and have the contrast in the 20's I believe. I tried a Samsung and ruled it out based on processing issues, hdmi audio dropouts (later fixed via firmware), stuttering, etc, etc.
 

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My stance on the Kuro - Best blacks, video processing/processor and very good QC/reliability but some of the other name brand screens are close or even better in other aspects. IE brightness/contrast and sometimes superior PQ depending on the quality and type of content. I've really found some nice things about the 5064 after getting it that I prefer to the Kuro. Unfortunately there are a lot of issues that get past QC and require technician visit to make adjustments to things like voltage and logic board replacements, etc. Definately go for Pioneer if you don't want to mess with those types of things and you can afford it. Seriously I think most people would be quite happy with either Pioneer, Panasonic or Samsung. I'd add Sony in there too if they didn't get out of the plasma market.
 

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Does having a bright white picture matter. How many movies, TV programs, etc do people view where most of the scenes involve snow? Is someone going to watch the looped snow video all of the time with a new TV. I guess an LCD would be great for a Hotdog the movie marathon or if someone watches the NHL all of the time (which if you check out the ratings not many people are).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ewitte /forum/post/12938434


My stance on the Kuro - Best blacks, video processing/processor and very good QC/reliability but some of the other name brand screens are close or even better in other aspects. IE brightness/contrast and sometimes superior PQ depending on the quality and type of content. I've really found some nice things about the 5064 after getting it that I prefer to the Kuro. Unfortunately there are a lot of issues that get past QC and require technician visit to make adjustments to things like voltage and logic board replacements, etc. Definately go for Pioneer if you don't want to mess with those types of things and you can afford it. Seriously I think most people would be quite happy with either Pioneer, Panasonic or Samsung. I'd add Sony in there too if they didn't get out of the plasma market.

Sony is still there IMO, their LCD's are great especially the XBR stuff.
 

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Excellent post. While black levels are important, there are other aspects which contribute to the overall pic.


Wild analogy-what if you had 100,000:1 CR but the tv was black and white.
 

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Well, call me crazy...but I'm sitting here watching the X-Games on my TH-50PZ700U...I see white snow with superb detail...I see ridiculously deep detailed blacks (even the thread stitching on the black gloves)...the picture is crisp and crystal clear...the colors naturally beautiful...a true-to-life plasma HDTV experience...but whadda-eye-no?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMAN1212 /forum/post/12940265


Well, call me crazy...but I'm sitting here watching the X-Games on my TH-50PZ700U...I see white snow with superb detail...I see ridiculously deep detailed blacks (even the thread stitching on the black gloves)...the picture is crisp and crystal clear...the colors naturally beautiful...a true-to-life plasma HDTV experience...but whadda-eye-no?

I was just getting ready to write the same thing. You cant get any whiter or brighter than this. I have it sitting next to my Sony CRT and the whites are identical.


Also none of the rainbow effect I have seen others writing about.
 
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