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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As if the DMCA wasn't bad enough, the movie and music industry are lobbying for a new law called the Security Systems Standards and Certification Act (SSSCA). This article explains how the SSSCA will expand on the DMCA and require that ALL digital electronic devices (including computers) have embedded copy-protection controls approved by the Federal Government.


Where is all this going to end? Is the government now in the business of being Hollywood's watchdog? Can these people really buy-off Congress with impunity to the detriment of the public's civil liberties? Is this what we elect these people for? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/mad.gif


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 

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Do you want to be able to buy/rent HD-DVD?


Because you're never going to see it until MPAA feels secure that Napster/DeCSS won't happen to them again.


What good is being able to steal if there's nothing worth stealing?
 

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Once a few decades ago Congress tried to legislate Pi to be exactly 3.0.


That didn't work either. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


- Tom


later edit: If anyone cares it was the 1897 Indiana legislature that tried to change Pi.


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Getting started with HTPC:
HTPC FAQ , DScaler , Xcel's Links , and
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[This message has been edited by trbarry (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by pngai:
Do you want to be able to buy/rent HD-DVD?
Under those terms, they can keep it!


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Vic Ruiz
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Sounds like the thought police are knocking on the door right now. I better turn off all this illegal technology and just sit in the dark.
 

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People felt the same way when the VCR, Cassette Tape and CD's Came out. The fact is, only a small handful of people even bother to copy any source material. It ends up being too much work! 10 years from now they will realize how silly this whole NAPSTER MENTALITY is!


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0==[:::::::::::::::>

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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz:


Is the government now in the business of being Hollywood's watchdog? Can these people really buy-off Congress with impunity to the detriment of the public's civil liberties?
YES!!!!




[This message has been edited by ToddD (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Because you're never going to see it until MPAA feels secure that ...
Who cares whether the MPAA feels secure? Let them take their marbles and go home. Someone else will step in. We don't owe them this.


- Tom


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Getting started with HTPC:
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Exactly. We talk about MS being a monopoly all the time, but in this area I guess the MPAA is just as bad. Just like some artists think Napster is the best thing since sliced bread since it gets them exposure, hopefully there will be up and coming artists, with access to the new digital HD cams who will step up and provide access to their work without such restrictions and end run Hollywood. Of course, we'll have to go to the MPAA tit to get big blow'em up stuff, there's lots of good stuff that can be down outside that system given access to good digital cams and digital editing suites for reasonable bucks.


Of course, once they get that exposure, they'll go off and do a big blow'em up Hollywood flick that we can't watch on our poor analog sets :)



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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry:
Who cares whether the MPAA feels secure? Let them take their marbles and go home. Someone else will step in. We don't owe them this.
If you are not interested in accessing MPAA protected content, then you have nothing to worry about.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz:
Under those terms, they can keep it!
Well, I want it. And how do you know what the terms will be? Suppose it was cheaper than it is now, a view forever license for $14.99, view one night for $2.99?


Would you still refuse?


How much did you spend on your HDTV? Why did you buy one, if not to view HD content?

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Blue Falcon:
People felt the same way when the VCR, Cassette Tape and CD's Came out. The fact is, only a small handful of people even bother to copy any source material. It ends up being too much work! 10 years from now they will realize how silly this whole NAPSTER MENTALITY is!
You may not appreciate how effective P2P (pirate to pirate) networks are, but all three branches of our Federal Government, Congress, the Courts, and the executive branch (DOJ, Copyright Office, etc) are surprisingly well educated on this issue.


I copied 3 DVDs this weekend. Is there a chance I will share them with my friends? Of course I won't. That's against the law. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
We sure have a lot of MPAA apologists coming into this forum lately.


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Vic Ruiz
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Vic, to me it looks like we just have one MPAA apologist, but he's generating a fair number of posts in this thread.


I agree with you -- if the only way we get HD-DVD is on the terms of basically letting the MPAA and RIAAA (through the US government) control all computer hardware in this country, it just isn't worth it.


And frankly, the argument that Hollywood will only release their material on their terms is BS. After all, the studios are "for profit" companies, and they don't make any profit by sitting on their content. They only make a profit to the extent that they can sell said content to the public. If we refuse to buy on their terms, then they'll have to find terms that we will accept -- or they ultimately go out of business.
 

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Quote:
If you are not interested in accessing MPAA protected content, then you have nothing to worry about.
You are not even close on this one. It would put restrictions on my computers even if I never intended to use them for MPAA content.


The side effects of trying to make a computer secure and unhackable from the owner will have far reaching implications and large costs. It will be similar to the problem now of small companies or open source groups trying to create DVD players on Linux. They have to jump through hoops to pass license qualifications.


It is just not realistic to think that you can create and maintain copy protected computers for the same cost as open ones. It is frankly not realistic to think it can be done at all but huge amounts of money and effort would be spent trying.


And I'm also worried about the antitrust exemptions they are asking for. It is scary and almost insulting to think they really believe they can get away with this.

Quote:
Under the SSSCA, industry groups have a year to agree on a security standard, or the Commerce Department will step in and decide on one. Sunshine laws would not apply to meetings held in conjunction with the law, and industry organizations would be immune from antitrust prosecution.
I predict this will fail and Congress will again discuss antitrust issues against Hollywood.


- Tom




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Getting started with HTPC:
HTPC FAQ , DScaler , Xcel's Links , and
The Anti-DMCA Website .
s>
And Free Dmitri Sklyarov!s>
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz:
Is the government now in the business of being Hollywood's watchdog? Can these people really buy-off Congress with impunity to the detriment of the public's civil liberties? Is this what we elect these people for?

Yes, it is. Under the United States Constitution, it is the responsibility of the Congress "To promote the progress of science and useful arts".


Progress is promoted by guaranteeing an author that no one may use his work without his permission.


Ownership of your work is one of the most fundamental civil liberties.

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry:
I predict this will fail and Congress will again discuss antitrust issues against Hollywood.
In your dreams. There is only one Congressman who is anti-property rights, and that's Boucher. He pretty much stands alone, the rest of Congress strongly supports DMCA.
http://wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,45548,00.html


But if you prefer to stay ignorant and live in fantasyland, I can't stop you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Since we're talking about fighting ignorance, I consider it my duty to do my part:


Quote:
Originally posted by pngai:
Progress is promoted by guaranteeing an author that no one may use his work without his permission.
Reality is not as absolute as that. There are many instances where you can use somebody else's work without permission. Most are covered under exceptions to copyright, such as the Fair Use and First Sale doctrines.

Quote:
Ownership of your work is one of the most fundamental civil liberties.
Intellectual property is not "owned" by the author. Once they choose to publish it (be it in print, audio, or visual form) it belongs to society as a whole. The author is granted exclusive rights to it (subject to the above exceptions) for a limited period of time, after which it lapses into the public domain. Check article I, 8 of the Constitution for reference.


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C


[This message has been edited by vruiz (edited 09-09-2001).]
 

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"See no evil. Hear no evil. Speak no evil." as a government-enforced policy is a fallacy that has produced entrenched negative countercultures of epic proportions. One need look no further than Prohibition - a massive "no evil" effort that was thwarted by only that part of the population that partakes, which is relatively small in comparison to TV viewers. Those in Congress who favor the DMCA or SSSCA are merely counting their re-election cash - they are not the highest educated among us. Let them have the balls to attempt passage of a Constitutional amendment that states these same crimes against the American people and see how many stand after the coverage that it would generate. They are smart enough to sneak such legislation through, downplay involvement, and stash the cash. That is what they did with the DMCA and will attempt to do with the SSSCA. Both must be struck down or we shall no longer be the greatest free speaking nation in the World. Ironically, another power will rise to the occasion and offer sanctity to rebels and mock the powers that be until a wiser collection of legislators convene. We will all pay a very big price in the diminishment of our rights until these special-interest concessions are repealed by the courts (or so we can only hope).



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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz:
We sure have a lot of MPAA apologists coming into this forum lately.
If you want to insult me, laugh at me, ignore me, or whatever, go right ahead. Nothing we do or say here matters anyway.


But if you want to have some influence with the people who run this country, you'd better work on your reasons instead of your insults.


If you want to understand what's happening and why and what will happen in the future, I think what I have to say is quite relevant. And if you want to try to convince me why I'm wrong, I'm listening.

 
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