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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Had my Hitachi 51s500 for about a week now. HD signals are very good. Cable and sat are about what I expected, not good, not even as good as my 4 year old stand. def Mits 50". DVDs look poor, I do have a progressive scan player, but the pic looks grainy and the colors dull. Is there any way that this is a result of 3:2 pulldown, and if so can it be defeated. The picture is kinda film-like, but not in a good way, dull,grainy, and kinda out of focus, even new movies. Actually everything but HD looks less acurate and colorful than my stand. def Mits. Might I have a bad set or is this not the right set and or time for me to upgrade to HD?
 

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What dvd player do you have? How is it connected? How do you have it outputed?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Toshiba 3900 I believe. I have it outputting progressive and I have tried it in both component inputs on the tv. I have decent moster cables, this same dvd player in non progressive mode looks better on my old Mits. I have tried it in both interlaced and progressive mode, looks crappy either way. Any chance that this is a result of the 3:2 pulldown on the set?
 

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I had the hitachi F500. I found that turning "OFF" all the extra features in the options mode made a nice difference. The fuzzies went away. I'm not sure what options are in the S500 but I am sure they are quite similar. I unfortunately had them all turned "ON" thinking they will help the PQ, but for some reason, it only made it fuzzy, even in HD.


Also, is this your first HD set? A standard definition set should display S.D pictures better, that is what they are made for. I think the hitachi displays S.D. pretty well compared to other HD sets i have seen..
 

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HD sets should do better with DVDs than NTSC sets. In fact, more people buy them for DVDs than for HD. The input quality is high enough to defeat the GIGO syndrome. My bet is that the set in question is doing such a good job that the film grain which has always been present is being seen for the first time because of the increased sharpness of the new set. As for the general appearance, calibration of the TV with a DVD such as AVIA goes a long way toward a better picture. There is always the viewer factor too since most people are used to a picture that is too bright, too blue, too contrasty and too saturated. A really good setup can be an acquired taste.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I do think that I am used to a quality picture, my stand. def. Mits is the top of the line for the year, and my settings do not include high brightness and contrast levels, my HD set not only looks grainy with DVD's (agreed, in some cases that may be good) but blurry with bland color. I feel that I am a very good judge of a good picture, and that my old stand. 50805 gives a much better pic with DVDs. I do think in alot of cases a superior lg. screen TV will show flaws in the source because of its accuracy, but I really don't feel this is the case here. As far as a good setup being an acquired taste, I don't agree, the picture is either sufficiently bright, clear, and accurate, or it is not.
 

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If you haven't taken Nick's advice yet, do it now. All that extra garbage in the advanced options menu should be off. All it does is create noise.


As for the bland colors, where is the color adjustment set at? By default it would be at 50. If by bland you mean it looks like not enough color saturation you could try turning it up here. Reducing the contrast and brightness will go a long way towards improving overall PQ and colors also. If the brightness is too high it will wash out the colors. A good starting point is color 50, sharpness 50, brightness 45, contrast 30. Avia or something similar will help you dial it in but that's a good baseline.


Then there's always ISF.
 

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Whatever the problem is, it has nothing to do with 3:2 pull-down correction. Check your user (video) settings to see if there is a "noise filter" or "noise reduction" (aka DNR) option. If so, disable it.
 

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While you state you are using "good Monster cables" you might want to see if swapping in some different and/or better cables makes a difference. My analog set connected via a Monster S-Video cable looked just fine, but when using the same cable to a 57" Toshiba LCoS the picture looked absolutely horrible. I got a better cable and now the picture is very very good (in fact, it turns out that an equivalent grade, but different S-Video cable also looks better. There was just a flaw in this particular cable that didn't show up on a lesser set).


It makes no sense that regular cable looks better than a progressive DVD picture. Your next things to check are your DVD player -- see if a friend can let you borrow his for a day. Also try to connect to your TV via S-Video or composite and see what happens. The next suspect would be the inputs or internal filtering on the Tosh. Hook up another component source and see what it looks like. Via such trial and error you should be able to pin down the culprit.
 

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First thing I would suggest is calibrate it using AVIA. If you are still not satisfied, then there is either a problem with the TV or a problem with the viewer :)


I only say that because this TV is one of this forums favorites, and it is well known to have great PQ. It should blow away any SD tv out there. Especially a tv that is several years old.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by NickHDTV
Have you looked into the DLP's/LCD's, In my opinion they give a better HD/dvd PQ than the crt rptv's.
And in mine, as well as many others here, they don't.


But that being said....

It's obvious he has some sort of setup problem, and not a technology problem here.

As he mentioned he has a 50" Mitsubishi, that he says looks better with the same sources. Also he mentioned that the HD on the set seemed to be very good. So saying that a DLP or LCD may be the answer to his problem, is rather foolish.
 

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I didnt say go out and buy it, I never said it was the answer to his problem, i simply asked if he looked into them, something to Compare the rptv to. I personally (is it ok to have an opinion in here other than you, or no?) think dlp and lcd screen give a better HD/DVD PQ, so if he looks into them and see's that this is what he is looking for then it offers more options.

So to call me foolish is foolish on your part.


So you are saying that it might not be the viewer? I can tell you I have read in here on numerous occasions people saying they have done everything in their ability to adjust the PQ but they are still not satisfied, so why is it foolish to recommend a different technology.


Buzz off!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by NickHDTV
I personally (is it ok to have an opinion in here other than you, or no?) think dlp and lcd screen give a better HD/DVD PQ,
Yes it's OK to have a opinion.

BUT! Yours is not the only opinion here, nor is it the only one that counts here as well.

And THAT is what I said in regards to that matter!
Quote:
Originally posted by NickHDTV


so why is it foolish to recommend a different technology.
Because it very well may not be the answer to problem or the question that was asked!
Quote:
Originally posted by NickHDTV


Buzz off!
Oh just how cute that was.....
 

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Right, i got it, so because it may very well not be the answer, it is foolish. I guess there are lots of fools on this forum. Oh well.


Balls75, forget the idea that DLP and LCd's might offer more of what you are looking for. Go with Johnla's advice. oh wait.....he had nothing to say about the issue. BTW, did turning the advanced features "off" help the problem?
 

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Nick, I think all he is saying, is, just because he's not happy with the picture, he probably has a setup problem, and that buying a new set is probably not the answer. He says HD looks good, but DVD's bad, so maybe the DVD player is at fault, or the cables, or just someobscure setup option. It's not, necessarily, time to take this set back, in return for DLP, just to, possibly, have the same problems.
 

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I'm having a very similar experience as described above by balls75. I am fairly satisfied overall, but I really believe the picture should be better. I've read through the tweaks, but haven't had time to do too much outside of adjustments in the standard user menus.


I have noticed pixelization when playing DVDs that I really didn't expect out of this set. I'm using a Sony DVP-NS755V progressive scan DVD player and the HD component inputs on the Hitachi (input 1). A good example is the Lion King movie released yesterday. . .I couldn't enjoy it with my girls because I was constantly distracted by blocky patches of pixels (especially in Mufasa's mane when he is looking at the stars with Pumba)! Don't get me wrong, the problem isn't gross at 10', but I really don't think it should be happening at all.


I have not seen many reference to this kind of problem on any of the S500s, although I have seen some references to "ghosting," which does not appear to be a related problem.


Any ideas? My cables are not the most expensive on the market by any means, but at only 10', I'd be surprised if that's the problem. I have not tried any other DVD players with the set, so it's certainly possible that the player could be the problem.


Thanks!
 

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I may be stating something obvious here - but you never know...


Make sure you converge and calibrate each input. The first time I used my HD 1080i input, I had to remember to do a 64 point convergence, set brightness, contrast, sharpness, etc. for that specific input.


Also check your DVD options - output 16:9, progressive, etc.


Good luck. Please post back and let us know if/when you resolve your problem.
 

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I would echo Mit07. Converge and align each input. If can spare the change get the set dialed in with a color analyzer to track proper greyscale and perhaps have a warranty tech come out and re do the electrical focus. Your set should be sharp as a tack with vibrant colors. you could have one that was banged around good in shipping.


Mike
 

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I appreciate the suggestions. I definitely need to spend more time working with the convergence, but I did do some general tweaking based on the information in the Hitachi FAQ last night. I have avoided going into the service/ISF menus for now simply because I'm reasonably satisfied with the picture at this point.


I was able to clean up the video in the Lion King to an extent, but discovered, as several folks have mentioned here, that the DVD's quality is surprisingly poor. Yes, part of it may be my DVD player's handling of the material, but I don't see this level of noise on other animated films like Toy Story or Beauty and the Beast. I also don't have any problems with film-based material (Lord of the Rings looks great!). I'm very curious whether other people see this problem with The Lion King. If any of you get the DVD, have a look at the scene with Mufasa and Simba looking at the stars and see if you see obvious pixelation in the sky and on Mufasa's mane.


Several people have suggested trying the Lion King in interlaced mode and allowing the Hitachi to handle scaling and 3:2 correction. I ran out of time before trying that yesterday, but I'll give it a shot and let you know.


Thanks very much for all your help. I'm certainly feeling better about the set than I was a couple of days ago!


One last thing. Those of you who bought an S500 from CC during the last month should compare what you paid to the current price for your model. CC has a "price protection plan" for 30 days. . .and seem to be lowering their prices on the S500 models. I missed this opportunity to save about $200 by only a few weeks!
 
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