Ok, I'm in the process of upgrading my old Dolby Digital receiver which is 7 years old now. I'm trying to decide whether I should get very nice receiver $1000 range or more such as Denon 3803, 4803 and other brands which equal the denon or go with cheap seperates such as outlaw or maybe rotel amp and use cheap receiver for pre/pro or save money for $1000 pre pro, etc. What I'm getting at is which gives you better sound/features if you were spending the same amount with cheap seperates vs expensive receivers? Opinions welcome.
Expensive receivers VS cheap seperates
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Not sure I really understand your budget ? $1000 midFi AVR (3803), higher end AVR $2000 (480x), intro seperates for
...but I'll give it a shot.... Options include:
1) mid range AVR - 100ish wpc x7 $1000 +/- Can use later as a pre (#3)
2) Flagshp AVR - $2-3K (ex. Denon 5803, Onk 989)
3) mid AVR as a pre (@ $1k) + (perhaps used) seperate amp ($1-1.5K)
4) intro seperates
...but I'll give it a shot.... Options include:
1) mid range AVR - 100ish wpc x7 $1000 +/- Can use later as a pre (#3)
2) Flagshp AVR - $2-3K (ex. Denon 5803, Onk 989)
3) mid AVR as a pre (@ $1k) + (perhaps used) seperate amp ($1-1.5K)
4) intro seperates
your best bang for the buck is a high quality receiver.....
i personally purchased a pioneer elite vsx-55txi receiver about 4 months ago.... i use it strictly as a preamp/processor with outboard amplifiers....
after looking at all the available options... this unit simply had more features, newer digital processors, and a self-calibration feature that was available only on separates that started at about $3,000 and up....
the added benefit is that you can use the internal amplifiers (100 watts per channel X 7 channels) until you get a separate amplifier(s).....
i got mine on sale for under $1400 from a local dealer....
i personally purchased a pioneer elite vsx-55txi receiver about 4 months ago.... i use it strictly as a preamp/processor with outboard amplifiers....
after looking at all the available options... this unit simply had more features, newer digital processors, and a self-calibration feature that was available only on separates that started at about $3,000 and up....
the added benefit is that you can use the internal amplifiers (100 watts per channel X 7 channels) until you get a separate amplifier(s).....
i got mine on sale for under $1400 from a local dealer....
i started a thread a couple of days ago asking the exact same question. for me i quickly ruled out the receiver. my decision came down to an outlaw 950/7100, a rotel 1066/1075 or a sherbourn 7000/5210 system. i ended up ordering the outlaw system today. hopefully i get it next week. i have owned 3 three receivers over the last couple of years a hk 315, then a denon 4802, just sold my sony 4es. i will post my impressions as soon as i get to set them up. reason i ruled out a receiver is becuase i have owned a high end receiver before, the denon, but was not too impress with it. i read a lot of threads on this forum and home theater forum about how big of an improvement there is going from a receiver to seperates and my mind was made up. i thought about just getting an amp and using my 4es as a pre/pro. but then i figure that i would not have the full benefit of seperates. i ended up choosing the outlaw because of the 30 money back guarantee and price. if i don't like them i will return them and get the rotels.
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Why discount a processor/amp just because it is missing phono stage? 
I don't know if the Outlaw is a good av pre-amp.. but other gear (pre-amps, integrated, av pre-amps) available in the UK don't have built-in phono stage- big deal.
External phono stages are higher quality anyway. They are quite noisy devices, so having them seperate is the better method. Start at £40 upto £1000+
| Originally posted by tubeguy44 the outlaw is a good option if you don't use vinyl.... it does not have a phono preamp built-in.... and my collection of 450 albums demanded that i get someting that would accomodate them.. |
I don't know if the Outlaw is a good av pre-amp.. but other gear (pre-amps, integrated, av pre-amps) available in the UK don't have built-in phono stage- big deal.External phono stages are higher quality anyway. They are quite noisy devices, so having them seperate is the better method. Start at £40 upto £1000+
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Such as?
(Good pricing breakdown, btw.)
| Originally posted by Rmassey I looked into some of the intro seperates (outlaw, Rotel) and was not pleased with some of the issues and comprimises offered. If you are not as critical, they may be just fine for your needs. |
(Good pricing breakdown, btw.)
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If you're looking to spend around a grand but you can go a little higher, right now some guy has an Onkyo TXDS989 (their flagship, 7.1 model, msrp $3200) on audiogon dot com for $1150, that's awfully cheap. If you don't mind used, do a search on Audiogon for a 1-3 year old flagship Onkyo, Denon, H/K, something like that with preamp outs, and add amps later.
| Originally posted by Charm Ok, I'm in the process of upgrading my old Dolby Digital receiver which is 7 years old now. I'm trying to decide whether I should get very nice receiver $1000 range or more such as Denon 3803, 4803 and other brands which equal the denon or go with cheap seperates such as outlaw or maybe rotel amp and use cheap receiver for pre/pro or save money for $1000 pre pro, etc. What I'm getting at is which gives you better sound/features if you were spending the same amount with cheap seperates vs expensive receivers? Opinions welcome. |
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Both Rotel and Outlaw do not offer balanced outs, for example.
I keep reading and re-reading about pops/clicks and other mysterous noises when switching inputs from Rotel owners over at club Rotel and this makes me concerned as a possible buyer.
The Rotel 1066 also has a BM issue that doubles the bass for the 5.1 ins, a fix was proposed that requires a user or dealer mod to open the box and clip a wire to a resistor or cap to eliminate the problem.
Outlaw has a wierd quirk about having to switch DSP modes in a certain order as a way to aviod loosing sound somewhere else. Sorry I can't remember the exact details, perhaps a real 950 owner can elaborate.
Fot HT the 950 is fine, but I have read over and over from 950 owners that the 2 ch performance of the pre is nothing special. Personally this is something I would not be willing to compromise.
I know some of these things are perhaps not a big deal, but when I plan to spend a chuck of change, I don't want ANY issues, at all. Honestly I am willing to spend $3k on an Anthem to get a very solid product and just avoid all these little quirks, but that's just me. Now, I just wish Anthem would lower their price, like B&K did.
| Originally posted by DMF Such as? (Good pricing breakdown, btw.) |
I keep reading and re-reading about pops/clicks and other mysterous noises when switching inputs from Rotel owners over at club Rotel and this makes me concerned as a possible buyer.
The Rotel 1066 also has a BM issue that doubles the bass for the 5.1 ins, a fix was proposed that requires a user or dealer mod to open the box and clip a wire to a resistor or cap to eliminate the problem.
Outlaw has a wierd quirk about having to switch DSP modes in a certain order as a way to aviod loosing sound somewhere else. Sorry I can't remember the exact details, perhaps a real 950 owner can elaborate.
Fot HT the 950 is fine, but I have read over and over from 950 owners that the 2 ch performance of the pre is nothing special. Personally this is something I would not be willing to compromise.
I know some of these things are perhaps not a big deal, but when I plan to spend a chuck of change, I don't want ANY issues, at all. Honestly I am willing to spend $3k on an Anthem to get a very solid product and just avoid all these little quirks, but that's just me. Now, I just wish Anthem would lower their price, like B&K did.
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I saw that 989, but my guess would be it's not the 989 v. 2 , which means it would lack DPLII, if you care about that.
| Originally posted by jehrico76 If you're looking to spend around a grand but you can go a little higher, right now some guy has an Onkyo TXDS989 (their flagship, 7.1 model, msrp $3200) on audiogon dot com for $1150, that's awfully cheap. If you don't mind used, do a search on Audiogon for a 1-3 year old flagship Onkyo, Denon, H/K, something like that with preamp outs, and add amps later. |
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B&K - Ref50 - I can't get past the no mute circuit/clicking issue, this is a show stopper for me, although I've heard they may add a mute circuit in the next upgrade (I think?). They are slow to offer upgrades and they are over priced IMO. Firmware upgrades are done by a dealer, not the user (ala Anthem). Price drop is nice, but puts it closer to the real value of the unit IMO.
| Originally posted by Pocatello What about B&K? I saw them on the internet--- B&K50, I believe, for less than $2,000. |
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my main speakers are klipsch KLF-30's powered by a carver professional ZR1000 digital amp... (225 watts per channel)
the surrounds are klipsch RS-3's powered by an elctrovoice 7100... (95 watts per channel)
and the center channel is a klipsch KLF-C7 powered by another electrovoice 7100 bridged to mono..... (bridged output 200 watts)
i use to have a dynaco sca-35 powering my mains...(hence my forum name) but after an increasing number of problems with it i decided to try the new digital amps from carver professional..... there is a great deal of discussion about these amps on more than a few forums....
and since i work at an electronic distributor....i got a very good price on it.... the electrovoice amps are an older model but are dead quiet and do a great job with my klipsch speakers.....
when i first got the pioneer vsx-55txi, i used it for awhile with the internal amps.... they were ok...but not up to the level of my separate amps...
brian cheney of vmps audio started a thread over on audiocircle comparing the carver ZR amps to amps going for up to ten times as much....
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=5201
cheers!
| Originally posted by d.mcnutt Tube Guy: What speakers and external amp are you using? |
the surrounds are klipsch RS-3's powered by an elctrovoice 7100... (95 watts per channel)
and the center channel is a klipsch KLF-C7 powered by another electrovoice 7100 bridged to mono..... (bridged output 200 watts)
i use to have a dynaco sca-35 powering my mains...(hence my forum name) but after an increasing number of problems with it i decided to try the new digital amps from carver professional..... there is a great deal of discussion about these amps on more than a few forums....
and since i work at an electronic distributor....i got a very good price on it.... the electrovoice amps are an older model but are dead quiet and do a great job with my klipsch speakers.....
when i first got the pioneer vsx-55txi, i used it for awhile with the internal amps.... they were ok...but not up to the level of my separate amps...
brian cheney of vmps audio started a thread over on audiocircle comparing the carver ZR amps to amps going for up to ten times as much....
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=5201
cheers!
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