Wow, don't anyone post anything here welcoming me to the site or anything... geez.
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Experiences with the Sony KP-51WS510, Sammy HLN617W and Sony KF60WE610
This would be my first post as a new member to this forum, and I would like to share my experiences of selecting and purchasing a RPTV.
Originally, my fiance allowed me to pick out any TV I wanted, within reason of course. God bless her, she told me that since I had bought her a couple thousand dollar engagement ring, it wasn't fair that I didn't get anything from her and she felt bad about it. Simply put, she wanted to buy me an engagement present in return - who was I to say no, right?
After some preliminary research, I settled on a CRT RPTV and being the Sony man I am, chose the Sony KP-51WS510. I hooked it up and had it working with my components in no time flat. However, halfway through watching Ice Age on DVD two days later, I became aware of a pencil-eraser sized green dot in the middle of the TV screen. I changed inputs, user settings, tried VHS tapes, regular cable TV, different DVD's, even let the TV sit for a few hours turned off, but once turned back on, that damn green dot was there to stay. Needless to say, I returned the TV to Best Buy and got a full refund.
I was pretty pissed off with Sony, having bought their TV's in the past and NEVER having a problem with them before. But being the forgiving soul I am, I opted for the same model series Sony TV only this time in a 57" model. Paid the dough, set up a delivery time and waited for it to be delivered to my home in two days.
During that time, I made a trip to BB to buy some Monster Cable, and that is when I ran into a Sammy HLN507W. I was awestruck with its visual eye candy. I went home thinking about it all night. That next day I drove to BB with the intentions of seeing if the DLP was better than a LCD and once I made my mind on that, was going to purchase either the Sammy HLN617W or the Sony KF60WE610.
My initial impressions were thus (after I played with each TV for fully in excess of two hours):
The Samsung HLN507W was visually more apealling; the colors were more vibrant and sharp, and the text clarity was wicked smooth. I wasn't thrilled with the way the actual chassis looked, but I could live with it. The sound from the set was not impressive, but that too was no big deal as I wasn't planning to use the TV sound as I had towers already. The one gripe I had was that sometimes, and only then the colors looked TOO vivid, like they were flourescent or something. Kinda tripped me out a bit.
The Sony KF60WE610 on the other hand was sleek looking and I loved the way the chassis looked. The sound from this TV was astounding and accurate. The color was dead-on and very accurate, but was not impressed with the black or white levels. The blacks looked washed out and the whites looked dirty compared to the DLP. However, I think what eventually drove me off from this LCD was that this particular Sony line of GW LCD's had serious design issues. I had read on the internet about people having problems with their bulbs blowing in their sets and not being covered by the EW or otherwise. Paying thousands for a TV with a known defect that is just waiting to cost you another 300-400 bucks was not my cup of tea.
After having previous problems with my 51" CRT RPTV and knowing about the Sony GW's bulb blowouts, my confidence in Sony TV's was shaken and I headed back to the Sammy. I never had a Samsung TV (or any appliance made by them for that matter) so my faith in the company was a little edgy. I started talking to a sales rep about the Sammy DLP and he explained to me that the Samsung 61 inchers were rare, and that he only had 3 in stock at the warehouse. While we dickered over the price for a half hour, the stock dropped from three units to two. He explained that Samsung shipped only 100,000 of these sets to the US (any confirmation on that?) and they went fast.
I chatted with him about price for a little longer and we finally came to a deal. I took delivery of a 61 inch DLP this past Monday. However, since that time, I came across this site as well as digiupdate.com and wish fervently that I had known about these two sites before purchasing the Samsung DLP: talk about a wealth of information! Not because I want to permanently return the Sammy for a different brand, but to have waited a few months more for the HLP models with the HD2+ chips to come out.
As it is, I am honestly thinking of using the 61 inch Sammy I have now until my 30 day return policy is up, trade it in for the Sony LCD GW 60 inch, use that for 30 days (give Sony a second shot doncha know!) then swap to the HLP when they come out if I am still enamoured with DLP. I figure that by then I will know pretty conclusively whether or not I prefer LCD or DLP in a home environment and not on some showroom floor.
Anyhow, thanks for reading this, and I would like to apologize if this post was a little inchoherent. I am still a little bleary from playing FFX on my DLP via PS2 for hours on end last night! =)
**Edit**
I have the HLN617W1 version of the Samsung HLN series TV's. It was manufactured in April 2004 and the firmware version is 1017.
Originally, my fiance allowed me to pick out any TV I wanted, within reason of course. God bless her, she told me that since I had bought her a couple thousand dollar engagement ring, it wasn't fair that I didn't get anything from her and she felt bad about it. Simply put, she wanted to buy me an engagement present in return - who was I to say no, right?
After some preliminary research, I settled on a CRT RPTV and being the Sony man I am, chose the Sony KP-51WS510. I hooked it up and had it working with my components in no time flat. However, halfway through watching Ice Age on DVD two days later, I became aware of a pencil-eraser sized green dot in the middle of the TV screen. I changed inputs, user settings, tried VHS tapes, regular cable TV, different DVD's, even let the TV sit for a few hours turned off, but once turned back on, that damn green dot was there to stay. Needless to say, I returned the TV to Best Buy and got a full refund.
I was pretty pissed off with Sony, having bought their TV's in the past and NEVER having a problem with them before. But being the forgiving soul I am, I opted for the same model series Sony TV only this time in a 57" model. Paid the dough, set up a delivery time and waited for it to be delivered to my home in two days.
During that time, I made a trip to BB to buy some Monster Cable, and that is when I ran into a Sammy HLN507W. I was awestruck with its visual eye candy. I went home thinking about it all night. That next day I drove to BB with the intentions of seeing if the DLP was better than a LCD and once I made my mind on that, was going to purchase either the Sammy HLN617W or the Sony KF60WE610.
My initial impressions were thus (after I played with each TV for fully in excess of two hours):
The Samsung HLN507W was visually more apealling; the colors were more vibrant and sharp, and the text clarity was wicked smooth. I wasn't thrilled with the way the actual chassis looked, but I could live with it. The sound from the set was not impressive, but that too was no big deal as I wasn't planning to use the TV sound as I had towers already. The one gripe I had was that sometimes, and only then the colors looked TOO vivid, like they were flourescent or something. Kinda tripped me out a bit.
The Sony KF60WE610 on the other hand was sleek looking and I loved the way the chassis looked. The sound from this TV was astounding and accurate. The color was dead-on and very accurate, but was not impressed with the black or white levels. The blacks looked washed out and the whites looked dirty compared to the DLP. However, I think what eventually drove me off from this LCD was that this particular Sony line of GW LCD's had serious design issues. I had read on the internet about people having problems with their bulbs blowing in their sets and not being covered by the EW or otherwise. Paying thousands for a TV with a known defect that is just waiting to cost you another 300-400 bucks was not my cup of tea.
After having previous problems with my 51" CRT RPTV and knowing about the Sony GW's bulb blowouts, my confidence in Sony TV's was shaken and I headed back to the Sammy. I never had a Samsung TV (or any appliance made by them for that matter) so my faith in the company was a little edgy. I started talking to a sales rep about the Sammy DLP and he explained to me that the Samsung 61 inchers were rare, and that he only had 3 in stock at the warehouse. While we dickered over the price for a half hour, the stock dropped from three units to two. He explained that Samsung shipped only 100,000 of these sets to the US (any confirmation on that?) and they went fast.
I chatted with him about price for a little longer and we finally came to a deal. I took delivery of a 61 inch DLP this past Monday. However, since that time, I came across this site as well as digiupdate.com and wish fervently that I had known about these two sites before purchasing the Samsung DLP: talk about a wealth of information! Not because I want to permanently return the Sammy for a different brand, but to have waited a few months more for the HLP models with the HD2+ chips to come out.
As it is, I am honestly thinking of using the 61 inch Sammy I have now until my 30 day return policy is up, trade it in for the Sony LCD GW 60 inch, use that for 30 days (give Sony a second shot doncha know!) then swap to the HLP when they come out if I am still enamoured with DLP. I figure that by then I will know pretty conclusively whether or not I prefer LCD or DLP in a home environment and not on some showroom floor.
Anyhow, thanks for reading this, and I would like to apologize if this post was a little inchoherent. I am still a little bleary from playing FFX on my DLP via PS2 for hours on end last night! =)
**Edit**
I have the HLN617W1 version of the Samsung HLN series TV's. It was manufactured in April 2004 and the firmware version is 1017.
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I love my 56" Samsung DLP and think you made a wise choice. Some here may congratulate you on your creativity, planning to return several TVs in order to wind up with an HLP. I think returning expensive electronics for no real reason, such as a defective set, is an abuse of the system that just drives up the costs for everyone. Although there will most likely be a difference in PQ between the HLN and HLP, it will be small, and probably not noticeable unless you saw them both right next to each other. Think of it this way: buying an HLN now saved you $$ since they are currently being discounted. If you get too hung up on getting the latest, you will always be waiting for the next generation and never buying. Just my 2 cents.
Bill:
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While I agree with you to a point, there really is no other way for a regular consumer to make a proper, educated and intelligent decision about what they are buying unless they have first hand experience with the product in their home, not on the show room floor; it is their residence where they will be using this product at not the store.
Meaning that, there is no way a consumer will be able to mimick the same experience in the store as they will at home. It's just not the same experience, thus how are you supposed to make the *right* decision in your mind if cant experience it where you will be using it at?
Yes, I can understand that returning prefectly good, expensive merchandise is not something one should really plan to do. However, I think you can appreciate that when one contemplates spending several thousand dollars on a product, they want to be sure what they are getting. You just dont go out and purchase a car because it looks cool, you want to test drive it, see what its capable of. That being said, I am merely 'test driving' these TV's to ensure that I dont end up with another Sony lemon, to be sure what I really want. So, no, I dont think I am taking advantage of the system, just being a cautious consumer intent on getting the most bang for the buck.
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| I think returning expensive electronics for no real reason, such as a defective set, is an abuse of the system that just drives up the costs for everyone. |
Meaning that, there is no way a consumer will be able to mimick the same experience in the store as they will at home. It's just not the same experience, thus how are you supposed to make the *right* decision in your mind if cant experience it where you will be using it at?
Yes, I can understand that returning prefectly good, expensive merchandise is not something one should really plan to do. However, I think you can appreciate that when one contemplates spending several thousand dollars on a product, they want to be sure what they are getting. You just dont go out and purchase a car because it looks cool, you want to test drive it, see what its capable of. That being said, I am merely 'test driving' these TV's to ensure that I dont end up with another Sony lemon, to be sure what I really want. So, no, I dont think I am taking advantage of the system, just being a cautious consumer intent on getting the most bang for the buck.
My only point is that if you like the 61" Samsung you bought, then just sit back and enjoy it.
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Don't act like a little girl just because you question wasn't answered in a lil over 2 hours.
| Originally posted by garetjax Wow, don't anyone post anything here welcoming me to the site or anything... geez. |
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Thank you for being so 'constructive' BlackbeardSaint, but I wasn't asking a question. I was merely posting my experiences with a few TV sets I encountered.
Anyhow, Bill I understand your point, but the thing of it is, my mind was and is not entirely made up yet between LCD and DLP. Again, spending a couple thousand dollars on a product to just settle on something when you might be able to do better, is doing yourself a disservice in my eyes.
| Originally posted by BlackbeardsSaint Don't act like a little girl just because you question wasn't answered in a lil over 2 hours. |
Anyhow, Bill I understand your point, but the thing of it is, my mind was and is not entirely made up yet between LCD and DLP. Again, spending a couple thousand dollars on a product to just settle on something when you might be able to do better, is doing yourself a disservice in my eyes.
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Ok then- don't whine like a little girl just because your statement wasn't replied to in a lil over 2 hours. Better?
| Originally posted by garetjax Thank you for being so 'constructive' BlackbeardSaint, but I wasn't asking a question. I was merely posting my experiences with a few TV sets I encountered. |
To knowingly buy a set;to be returned, twice;is wrong, in my eyes. But hey,these are old eyes.I can see,your eyes see things differently,which is no skin off my nose. Welcome to our nightmare--says Alice Cooper.
welcome.
I tend to agree with Bill. You made a decision and settled on a set - if you don't have any problems with this set and enjoy watching it, then just enjoy it. While the home is obviously the best place to do your comparison, it is hard to really compare 2 sets unless you have them both at the same time and can view side-by-side. IMO, the 2 sets you narrowed it down to are both excellent sets and seem to be the 2 sets that most people end up deciding between. In my research, the LCD had a slight edge and that is only because most of my viewing is SD and the SD picture on the Sony is more watchable (again, IMO) then the SD picture on the Samsung. I will agree that the HD picture on the Samsung was more vivid (though maybe too vivid sometimes), but the Sony still had a slight edge (seemed more natural) as far as MY EYES are concerned. In any case, any differences I saw were slight and I would've been just as happy with either.
Also, it should be noted that the Sony bulb issues seem to have been MOSTLY worked out.
I tend to agree with Bill. You made a decision and settled on a set - if you don't have any problems with this set and enjoy watching it, then just enjoy it. While the home is obviously the best place to do your comparison, it is hard to really compare 2 sets unless you have them both at the same time and can view side-by-side. IMO, the 2 sets you narrowed it down to are both excellent sets and seem to be the 2 sets that most people end up deciding between. In my research, the LCD had a slight edge and that is only because most of my viewing is SD and the SD picture on the Sony is more watchable (again, IMO) then the SD picture on the Samsung. I will agree that the HD picture on the Samsung was more vivid (though maybe too vivid sometimes), but the Sony still had a slight edge (seemed more natural) as far as MY EYES are concerned. In any case, any differences I saw were slight and I would've been just as happy with either.
Also, it should be noted that the Sony bulb issues seem to have been MOSTLY worked out.
My philosophy concerning money is that you can either work for your money, or let your money work for you. While I may be happy with the Sammy, there are a few things that bug me about it, and who wouldnt feel the same way when they buy a TV set? I'd rather find a TV that has fewer of these things that bug me than settle on one that I can 'live' with.
I'd rather know that I did everything I could when selecting an expensive product than have buyers remorse or wish I had gotten something else when the 30 day return guarantee is no longer valid and it's too late to make changes.
I dunno. Yeah, I can definitely see where you guys are coming from and from your perspective what I may be doing might be ethically wrong. But I can't make an educated and unbiased decision when the TV's I am interested in sit in the store and not my house where I'll be using it.
BlackbeardSaint, again, I was not making a statement. I was relaying my experiences and opinions about a series of TV sets I had encountered. If you wish to be 100% accurate you might want to use the word post next time as this will most likely alleviate any discussion about me supposedly whining like a little girl. I might also suggest that if you refuse to be a positive contributor to this thread, that you do not participate at all. You know, kind of like the old adage: If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all, bit?
I'd rather know that I did everything I could when selecting an expensive product than have buyers remorse or wish I had gotten something else when the 30 day return guarantee is no longer valid and it's too late to make changes.
I dunno. Yeah, I can definitely see where you guys are coming from and from your perspective what I may be doing might be ethically wrong. But I can't make an educated and unbiased decision when the TV's I am interested in sit in the store and not my house where I'll be using it.
BlackbeardSaint, again, I was not making a statement. I was relaying my experiences and opinions about a series of TV sets I had encountered. If you wish to be 100% accurate you might want to use the word post next time as this will most likely alleviate any discussion about me supposedly whining like a little girl. I might also suggest that if you refuse to be a positive contributor to this thread, that you do not participate at all. You know, kind of like the old adage: If you have nothing nice to say, then dont say anything at all, bit?
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And who among us can? I guess everyone should do what you have done. Then we'd all get to pay 2x as much for everything.
Here's what you do: you look at them as long as you can until a leader emerges. You do it at a store that will be patient and let you make your decision in your time, and let you make adjustments to help you decide.
Then you make a decision and live with it. If, unfortunately, there is a BIG problem that could not be detected in the store, like a child who is made ill by the DLP optics, then you do a return.
Otherwise, sorry, I just think you are wrong, you are abusing the store's policies, and you are making it probably harder (certainly more expensive) for people to use such return policies in the future.
| Originally posted by garetjax ... I dunno. Yeah, I can definitely see where you guys are coming from and from your perspective what I may be doing might be ethically wrong. But I can't make an educated and unbiased decision when the TV's I am interested in sit in the store and not my house where I'll be using it.... |
Here's what you do: you look at them as long as you can until a leader emerges. You do it at a store that will be patient and let you make your decision in your time, and let you make adjustments to help you decide.
Then you make a decision and live with it. If, unfortunately, there is a BIG problem that could not be detected in the store, like a child who is made ill by the DLP optics, then you do a return.
Otherwise, sorry, I just think you are wrong, you are abusing the store's policies, and you are making it probably harder (certainly more expensive) for people to use such return policies in the future.
Perhaps you are right, Acura. I have just received this PM in my mailbox today from rclams: (I hope he doesnt mind if I post it here)
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I think this is a great idea and am currently looking into setting something like this up in the near future, for those that live in the L.A. area. =)
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| Howdy: Enjoyed your post. I feel the same way about the angst of having to pick ONE TV, but I also share the consensus that a strategy of "planned returning", though clever, does throw sand in the retailer's gears. One thing that overcomes this is demos in people's homes of the new toys they have purchased. I got to see three new front projectors that way (Infocus X1, Sanyo Z1, Sony HS-20) and it was a lot of fun, too. I offered to bring a six pack, wine or snacks and was more often than not told not to. http://www.audioenvy.com/ is one way to experience certain brands of speakers, but the concept can apply to TVs/projectors as well. If you post in AVS with an offer to coordinate a "movable feast" in your general geographic locale (e.g., South of Chicago) to visit homes and see the RPTVs of note (Sammys, Sonys, etc.), you might be able to see a bunch of new sets and meet some other AV nuts as well. Best of Luck!! Gary |
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GJ, you sound like a pretty good guy and you have some real backbone to take everyone's comments with grace.
Good luck with your choice, whatever set you end up with, I hope you enjoy it !!
| Originally posted by garetjax Perhaps you are right, Acura. I have just received this PM in my mailbox today from rclams: (I hope he doesnt mind if I post it here) ... I think this is a great idea and am currently looking into setting something like this up in the near future, for those that live in the L.A. area. =) |
Good luck with your choice, whatever set you end up with, I hope you enjoy it !!
Well I'm a research fanatic and I found this site before buying my HLN617W back in July of 03' (This site saved me allot of money as well). I looked at Sony LCD's, Standard Rear projections, and even Plasma sets, but at the end of my research the Samsung came out on top. I have been very happy with this purchase and would not even consider selling it for an "updated" model. After all it has a fantastic HD picture, so I figure in a few years.....it will still have a fantastic HD picture! The only products I return are one's that are defective. Hock my old tech stuff on ebay and then buy new stuff. I will probably stay with this set until it dies or really cheap 1080p sets hit the market.
In all fairness, there are pros and cons with DLPs, and pros and cons with LCDs. I was lucky that a Tweeter near me had the Samsung DLP and Sony LCD right next to each other when I was making my decision. I thought the Samsung looked better to my eyes (less glare, better blacks, more vivid colors), bearing in mind that the setups could affect how they looked, and that to someone else's eyes the Sony might have looked better. The bottom line, as noted above, is that these are 2 great sets, and you can't go wrong with either.
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Hey Garetjax,
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us. That's what this wonderful forum is all about.
I share your anxiety with a purcahase of a TV. I'm this close / \\ to pulling the trigger on a HLN507W1. I have so many questions running through my head...
Do I buy it locally? Will the price be close to what I can get from a reputable place online? Will I regret not waiting for an HLP? When is the powerbuy info going to be posted?
Uuuuugh! I've been driving myself mad....regrettably more than it should be. Heck, buying a TV is almost as important as buying a car in my mind...maybe that's my mindset(problem?..heh).
Anyway, I like the idea of auditioning with others in your area. If anyone in Houston reads this...I've got some beer with your name on it! I want to see a sammy DLP HD2 in in it's fullest glory!
| Originally posted by garetjax Perhaps you are right, Acura. I have just received this PM in my mailbox today from rclams: (I hope he doesnt mind if I post it here)I think this is a great idea and am currently looking into setting something like this up in the near future, for those that live in the L.A. area. =) |
Thanks for sharing your experiences with all of us. That's what this wonderful forum is all about.
I share your anxiety with a purcahase of a TV. I'm this close / \\ to pulling the trigger on a HLN507W1. I have so many questions running through my head...
Do I buy it locally? Will the price be close to what I can get from a reputable place online? Will I regret not waiting for an HLP? When is the powerbuy info going to be posted?
Uuuuugh! I've been driving myself mad....regrettably more than it should be. Heck, buying a TV is almost as important as buying a car in my mind...maybe that's my mindset(problem?..heh).
Anyway, I like the idea of auditioning with others in your area. If anyone in Houston reads this...I've got some beer with your name on it! I want to see a sammy DLP HD2 in in it's fullest glory!
Quote:
BillP,
I see that you have a 56" Samsung DLP and was wondering if you can share a little information about your configuration as well as any problems and fixes that you may have encountered. This past Sunday I purchased an HLN567W. DVD's are great but I'm disappointed with the picture from my satellite. I have DirecTV with an RCA (non-HDTV receiver) and I notice some pixelation as well as some problems with skin tones. I'm using an S-Video cable to go between my Sat receiver and the TV. Anyway, anything that you can share will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Darin
| Originally posted by BillP I love my 56" Samsung DLP and think you made a wise choice. Some here may congratulate you on your creativity, planning to return several TVs in order to wind up with an HLP. I think returning expensive electronics for no real reason, such as a defective set, is an abuse of the system that just drives up the costs for everyone. Although there will most likely be a difference in PQ between the HLN and HLP, it will be small, and probably not noticeable unless you saw them both right next to each other. Think of it this way: buying an HLN now saved you $$ since they are currently being discounted. If you get too hung up on getting the latest, you will always be waiting for the next generation and never buying. Just my 2 cents. |
I see that you have a 56" Samsung DLP and was wondering if you can share a little information about your configuration as well as any problems and fixes that you may have encountered. This past Sunday I purchased an HLN567W. DVD's are great but I'm disappointed with the picture from my satellite. I have DirecTV with an RCA (non-HDTV receiver) and I notice some pixelation as well as some problems with skin tones. I'm using an S-Video cable to go between my Sat receiver and the TV. Anyway, anything that you can share will be appreciated.
Thanks,
Darin
First of all, I have high def cable (I have no experience with DirectTV). However, all these HDTVs do not look great with standard definition channels (garbage in/garbage out - you are in effect blowing up a poor quality signal to a very big screen). You really need to get high def channels to fully appreciate how great this TV is, and connect a high def receiver or cable box to the TV with either component or DVI (both give better PQ than using S-video).
Darin: SD on a DLP looks terrible, and there is really no way around it. If you MUST watch SD on a big screen, return the DLP for a RP CRT or a Sony RP LCD and sit > 8 feet from the screen. The Sony RP LCDs do a pretty impressive job with SD signals.
Sorry!
Sorry!
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