Experts please answer this, CRT pc monitors vs HDTV's. TIA

PC monitors have a much finer dot pitch than TV sets. Typically .26 mm for a PC monitor vs. .81 mm for a regular TV. Also PC monitors usually have better electronics, higher bandwidth, for better horizontal resoluton.


You can buy an external scaler and that will also act as an NTSC to VGA adapter so you can use a PC monitor as your TV.


The disadvantage is that the PC monitor screen is not all that big.


It has been said that PC monitors don't get as bright as ordinary TV's but if you darken the room a little this should not cause any problems.


Video hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm

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(I didnt acess the link) I'm no expert. They are based on the same technology. different electronics, variable output frequencies on computer monitor. fixed output on the TV. Normally better tubes on computer monitor. smaller screen size for the quality.

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They dont need the extra lines. Where are you gonna get content that takes advantage of those lines at that distance? People are not typically not viewing from 2 feet away.

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sometimes, depends on you viewing condition and distance. TV dont need variable res like a computer does. From 4 feet away I do prefer watching on a Sony 24" FW900 data CRT monitor instead of traditional HDTV. beats the heck out of most TVs. Most people dont have the right input or video scaling capabilities of the to use a computer monitor. That's where the extra cost in a HDTV come in compared to a coputer data monitor. Remember HDTV normally have built in speakes, remote control and other things that make a it more user friendly design.

that monitor has a .27 dot pitch, you should be able to figure out the optimal resolution from that and the 18" viewable 4:3 monitor

well it is 1355x1016


so actually it has no more horizontal resolution than the XBR

LMFAO


but of course like the XBR it accepts a higher resolution than it actually can display


apparently 1792*1344 for this PC monitor and 1920x1080i for the XBR


but it is normal for most PC monitors to have a finer pitch than even a XBR/XS model Sony

they generally can have dot pitches as small as .20 or .21 much smaller than even LCD monitors

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the cost of producing a CRT with dot pitches would absurd, and the weight and depth of the TV would be ridiculous

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as I pointed out that monitor cannot, but my 19" CRT with a .25dot pitch can

and thats cause of the size of the monitor and furthermore its intended purpose


and also there no are tuners, scalars or multiple inputs on my VGA only monitor

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reasoning above
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sounds like all you are really wondering about is the resolution of the TV vs a monitor

and well thats based off of dot pitch

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Well when a 1080i signal from say ESPN or another HD broadcast is being sent out, they are sending out 1920 lines across, correct?


As far as HD gaming as now the Xbox 360 delivers, when it outputs in 720p or 1080i..eithier way it's getting upconverted to 1080i..which is 1920 lines across.

Now, sure say nearly every 360 game is really using only optimized in 720p, that's still 1280 lines across. The XBR960 can handle it, but no other line of CRT HDTV's can.


So it's not like there are is no need for more lines, because if HD in 1080i is indeed sending out 1920 lines and 360(soon PS3) games will have games optimized in 1080i as well..add to that other HT devices, there is a need to reach that 1920, don't you think?


BTW: To all those who have replied back, thanks so much for your input. You guys are great.

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So why did they list nearly 1800 lines? Also, i have a really old 15" (1995') NEC Multisync XV15(to use as an example) and it can(and does) output in 1280*1024.

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So really it boils down to simply dot pitch? Is it that simple?


If so i'm gathering the XBR960 has a smaller dot pitch then all other CRT-HDTV's in it's size, is this correct?


And if so what is it's dot pitch, because from all the manuals and info nearly everywhere on this HDTV, iv'e yet to read on it's dot pitch.


(i'll check the XBR960 manual later, to see if i looked over it by mistake)


Thanks for the reply..again i greatly appreciate any info about this. I'm really new to higher end HDTV's and so this is all pretty new to me.

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not always, alot if not most 1080i broadcasts are 1440x1080i

and ESPN is 720p AFAIK

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statement is full of holes, the xbox360 resolution is optimized per game, the developers can make you us the scalar or they can actually have the game run at 1080i


and so what the XBR(and XS models, which you seem to be ignoring) have enough resolution for 720p displays

but they do not!!!!

they upscale 720p inputs to 1080i so point is irrevalent

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probably not on a 30"-36" (34" WS) TV cause of viewing distances

and then again do you want to pay another grand to get the extra 400 or so lines(based off of 5% overscan)

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cause just as I said with the XBR/XS it attempts to display 1920x1080i resolution

but there is simply not enough resolution to the display all the information


thats simply the highest scan rate(well resolution) the monitor will display

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yes, the XBR/XS models attempt to display 1920x1080i but there are only so many lines of resolution

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well the XBR/XS models yes have the smallest dot pitch

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the dot pitches are not listed in manuals

professionals have measured/counted the TV thats were the 1401 lines comes from

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yup

First off, great reply back. Thanks.

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I never realized this, thanks for that info.


btw: How can you tell if any broadcst is 1920 or not?

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Now this is confusing(or maybe it's me), lets forget any future optimized 1080i games for the 360(or PS3), lets just talk about 720p.


Eithier way the XBox360 or XBR960 will upscale 720p to 1080i, but it's still just upscaling 1280 into 1920, nothing more. I'm not sure how it's done, but i would think this is where the XBR960(and XS) shines because of their higher 1400 resolutions. If it's done right that's 1280 lines into 1400, so this shoulod not be any problem.


I know it's kinda strange how the upconverting would upconvert 1280 into 1920 and then back into it's 1400 lines, where if it had native 720p, it would be so much easier.


And i'm curious if the upscaling actually hurts the XBR(or SX) line, where 720(1280 across) gets upconverted to 1920, but put into 1400 lines. Or is this not a problem at all?


{edit}The fact that the XBR960 can handle 1400 lines and that i'm using the Xbox360 on it, was one of the main reasons i bought that HDTV. I figured it would handle the 1280 lines of the 360 just perfectly..but i hope the upconverting(by eithier the 360 or XBR960) does'nt hurt that ability.


Great reply..thanks, and i'll respond to the rest of it later.

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just because your monitor will attempt to display 1280 wide does not mean there are 1280 phospors to illuminate

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that statement is flawed as your older 15" does not have enough lines of resolution to display 1280 if it has .27 dot pitch

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not sure what you would know if the show was recorded at 1440x1080i cause the broadcast are 1920x1080i

sorry I said broadcast in my last reply

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there are 1080i games now on the xbox360

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1280x720 is scaled to 1920x1080 and then interlaced

actually it would be 1920 into 1400 not 1280 into 1400, the image was scaled

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it does not scale 1920x1080i to 1400 lines across

there is simply a loss of detail from the lack of resolution

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if you sit a foot away from the screen or want to use the display as a PC monitor

it would make a difference

otherwise you will not be able to see any difference at normally viewing distance

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First off, thanks for the reply.


Second, i never realized the phospers issue at all, thanks for that info.


I'm not sure if you may now the answer to this:


Is there any way of actually finding out how many phospors are in any particular monitor?


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Is there a certain way of calculating this, exactly what does .27 dot pitch for a 13.8 viewable monitor equate to?


I had just figured since it can display(and does) 1280*1024, it's doing so with enough lines. I guess i figured wrong..

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I did'nt know this, i know most will output in both 720p and 1080i(and 480i/p), but are there any 360 games that take advantage of 1080i? If so which?

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This is what is was trying to get at, because if the XBR line had 720p native there would be no loss, but by upconverting there is.


Now even though..since by upconverting to 1080i, there is a loss, the XBR(and XS) HDTV's should do a better job at reproducing that 1280 across then other sets that have lower resolution. Is this correct?


I'm guessing the XBR(and XS) line of HDTV's do the best job at coming the closest to native 720p, than any other CRT on the market.


btw: I know plasma's and many LCD's max out at 1280(or so) across, have any other HDTV's (non crt) reached the 1920 mark..as of yet?


Thanks again for any input here.

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yeah based off the dot pitch

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yeah the monitor is 11.04x8.28


and thats from (13.8 x 13.8)/25 * 9 = square root answer

and (13.8x13.8)/25 *16 = squareroot answer


thats 5/4/3 right triangle


then to find the exact number of resolution use the dot pitch


so its 11.04 x25.4 to get millimeters then divide by .27 = 1039

same thing for other dimension 8.28 x 25.4 / .27 = 779

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I am not really keeping up with the whole xbox360 topic but yeah there are 1080i games

you should be to find that info on xbox360 sites or the gaming forum here

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so it cost alot more to have the internal electronics do 720p

it would increase the price of the TV too much when the set already cost much more than any other 34" CRT

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the added resolution of the XBR/XS line does benefit both 1080i and 720p signals

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well actually princeton graphics, monovision, and sampo make large scale PC monitors which can display 720p but otherwise the older Toshibas has enough or really close to enough resolution to display 720p

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there are 1080p LCDs, 1080p plasmas are coming very soon, 1080p LCoS/SXRDs are here, 1080p DLPs are really 960x1080p


the only sets in the same price range as the XBR are the cheap chinese made Westinghouse, BenQ 37" directview LCDs


most plasmas and LCDs are 1366x768, although the 43" and smaller plasmas are 1024x768 with rectangular pixels

few LCD panels are actually 1280x720p

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Thanks alot for that equation, i never realized this even existed. (and iv'e been in the comp. eng. field since the mid 80's. wow..)


So going by the numbers, it's 1039*779 phosphers for that .27, 15" monitor?


So when this monitor is in say 1280*1024, it's fitting those pixels in those phosphers?

Am i getting this correct here?


Now if so, most every pc monitor(crt) has a dot pitch around .25 or so, so the max. phosphers are for the most part, is really lower then the highest resolution these state they can reach?


One other thing, i was thinking about getting a 26" HDTV-crt(Panasonic comes to mind or maybe Samsung) for my den, but then i was thinking a 21" pc monitor and a VGA adapter may yield better image quality. (i believe the 26" Panasonic maxes out at 900..or maybe close to 1000 lines of horizontal resolution)


Do you agree the 21"(or maybe even just a 19" NEC-->.25 dot pitch) will yeild better image quality as an output of the Xbox 360?


(It's only a den HDTV 2nd set, and i can live with a 19"-26", it does not matter to me. But image quality really does matter in this case. I'm really looking to get the best image quality for 360 games in 720p)


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Interesting, but why won't say a standard(crt) NEC 19" or 21"(20" viewable) handle 720p, as(by going by the math) it should easily have enough phosphers to match 1280*720?


Thanks very much once again for all the info, and i'm wondering if you know of a web site that can explain this as you have, as i can look to it as a reference of sorts.

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Thanks alot for that equation, i never realized this even existed. (and iv'e been in the comp. eng. field since the mid 80's. wow..)


So going by the numbers, it's 1039*779 phosphers for that .27, 15" monitor?


So when this monitor is in say 1280*1024, it's fitting those pixels in those phosphers?

Am i getting this correct here?


Now if so, most every pc monitor(crt) has a dot pitch around .25 or so, so the max. phosphers are for the most part, is really lower then the highest resolution these state they can reach?


One other thing, i was thinking about getting a 26" HDTV-crt(Panasonic comes to mind or maybe Samsung) for my den, but then i was thinking a 21" pc monitor and a VGA adapter may yield better image quality. (i believe the 26" Panasonic maxes out at 900..or maybe close to 1000 lines of horizontal resolution)


Do you agree the 21"(or maybe even just a 19" NEC-->.25 dot pitch) will yeild better image quality as an output of the Xbox 360?


(It's only a den HDTV 2nd set, and i can live with a 19"-26", it does not matter to me. But image quality really does matter in this case. I'm really looking to get the best image quality for 360 games in 720p)


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Interesting, but why won't say a standard(crt) NEC 19" or 21"(20" viewable) handle 720p, as(by going by the math) it should easily have enough phosphers to match 1280*720?


Anyway here's my two choices(as of now) here's the NEC 19":

http://www.compusa.com/products/prod...271&pfp=BROWSE


It has a dot pitch of .25 and of course is 18" viewable


The Panasonic and Samsung HDTV's i don't have a link off the top of my head now, but they are 26" wide, so that really should tell all.


Thanks for any info on this.


And thanks very much once again for all the info in your reply, and i'm wondering if you know of a web site that can explain this as you have, as i can look to it as a reference of sorts.

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yeah thats the 13.8" viewable measurement you posted

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well yeah thats sounds like a correct analogy

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yeah pretty typical

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unless you will be sitting in front of the monitor like in a desk setup

I would think the panasonic would be the better option

simply for the sake of screen size


but you will get a more detailed image with the PC monitor but its not widescreen

meaning even smaller image

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it will display 720p


uh sites

maybe
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/tv17.htm


oh this is a good one
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/crtfaq.htm


maybe this as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathode_ray_tube


did not read any but the wikipedia

but the second link most likely will have what you want

these should be closer in price to the panasonic 26"

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_a..._keyword=22%5C


there are 22" and 21" monitors


here's a comparsion between 26" WS and 21" 4:3 so you know the differences in picture size

http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi


and here's a 22" vs 26"

http://www.cavecreations.com/tv2.cgi


EDIT: well it look like you will have to enter the numbers yourself

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Yes, good point even a (21") 20" viewable monitor would be about 17" 's in widescreen. I'm not sure if i could deal with that, but maybe since it will be a more detailed image.

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Thanks so much for the info..reply and the website info. You have been very helpfull.

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Thank you again very much, as i can use all the info as possible(i'm just starting to figure out the whole HDTV field, after two decades of being knee deep in the comp. eng. field, and you have helped out a great deal, with all the replies..info..everything and the websites you gave, should help out even further.


This will be my last reply for the weekend as i need to get my 2 year old to sleep now(this is why sometimes my replies are badly spelled or lack perfect grammer) and set for the weekend of X-Mas and all the running around needed.


So may i wish you a safe holiday weekend and thanks so much for all the info, i greatly appreciate it, and it's why i appreciate all the good people in these forums.


Thanks again.