[cnz]

Does anyone have any info on what Express Vu calls Super Defintion? What channels are offered in this format?

I'm looking for a good website with info into Express vu.


ALSO.... I have a RCA DTC100 that I would love to trade for a Express Vu 6000. Anyone interested??

 

[kromkamp]

Super Definition is just the HD channels downrezzed to SD resolution.


Andy K.

 

[BJS188]

Last year when I was expolring ExpressVu, I was under the impression that they were calling some of the Canadian channels Super Definition. My thought was that they did not compress them as much as other channels.

 

[zarlor]

I think both of those statements are true. They also imply that to get "Super Defenition" you need to be using an S-Video connectro from your reciver to TV. I guess they figures the S in S-Video was comparable to a Super Defenition, somehow, just because of the better signal seperation maintained. All that being said, primarily it's just a marketing ploy, IMHO.

 

[roybillybob]

ExpressVu's superdefinition (CH. 299) is indeed a down-rez mirror of their HDTV channel content. It is widescreen and uses the highest resolution possible thru a s-video connection. It is much better than a normal standard-definition channel. I believe it is a very creative use of technology to try to give non-HDTV'ers a taste of what they are missing. This channel usually broadcasts the most popular US network HDTV shows such as CSI, NYPD Blue, and the L&O's.


A listing is available at: http://www.bell.ca/shop/application/...dtv_lineup.jsp

 

[Ken H]

Quote:

A select number of ExpessVu channels are transmitted in what Bell ExpressVu calls "Super Definition TV," which is in fact, standard-definition 480i digital TV. "Super Definition" offers the best picture quality available on a regular NTSC set, noted Terry Snazel, vice-president technology for ExpressVu. Not only does the company use a high bit rate for "Super Definition," this material shown is never squeezed into composite form. Chrominance and luminance stay separated throughout the transmission system & into the home, so these pictures won't be affected by NTSC artifacts like dot crawl, as long as the receiver is connected to the TV via an S-connection.

299 is only one of the SD channels. Most of the PPV is SD, and a number of other channels are also SD, like The A Channel.

 

[Newbie]

Although curiously, the picture on A-Channel sucks. And despite the claims, even on PPV it's not even close to non-progressive, S-Video DVD quality.


However, the downconverted HDTV is much better than the analog feeds and I hope that once they have full-time HDTV feeds of the major networks they will stop carrying the analog feeds and replace them with down-converted HDTV

 

[roybillybob]

As I am sure has been stated in this forumn before...


Bell ExpressVu is launching Nimiq2 very shortly. It will replace nimiq1 in the 91 slot and nimiq1 will mosey over to the 82 slot. From there nimiq1 will broadcast specialty programming including 12 HDTV channels. I'm sure the major US networks will be included in those 12. 6000 and internet users will be required to install a new dish which is basically a DISH500 in order to receive this programming. I believe all 6000 subscribers will be getting this free of charge.


-Roy

 

[RickD_99]

Roy:


Couldn't you use a legacy BEV single 18" dish pointed at 82W if all you were interested in was HD programming from BEV?

 

[roybillybob]

RickD_99,


sure, a single dish would work if you're one of those folks who refuse to watch nothing except HDTV (like me) However, as a subscriber, the new dish should be free so no reason to not get it.


-Roy

 

[spwace]

Let me make sure I understand this. Super Definition TV is basically S-video quality at best and not one post criticizing EspressVu for intentionally deceiving their customers. Meanwhile, FOX is lambasted for calling 480p widescreen, High Resolution. I think it is fairly obvious which is the bigger exaggeration.

 

[Newbie]

No, you're not understanding it, spwace. You're overlooking the fact that they are marketing this as decidedly inferior to the HDTV that they also provide.


Bell ExpressVu actively markets HDTV, far more agressively than any other satellite provider. Despite only having two Hi-Def channels, they manage to bring their subscribers almost all the U.S. network HD programming, plus HDNet hockey and lacrosse, plus movies, plus PPV. Next year, when their new satellite is in service, they will be providing more HDTV channels than any provider, cable or satellite, in the world, and providing something Americans can only dream of -- East and West coast HDTV feeds of the major U.S. networks. Considering that they have a mere 7,000 HDTV subscribers out of 1.2 million, that's one hell of a committment to HDTV, especially considering they don't charge anything for their non-PPV HDTV content.


And yes, they do show some HDTV programming downconverted to SD in addition to also showing it in HDTV. It is clearly labelled as such in the program guide. You will see CSI, for example, listed as CSI -- CBS HDTV Broadcast and CSI -- CBS HDTV converted to SDTV.


They are not misleading anyone, nor are they trying to foist off an inferior solution as an equivalent for true HDTV. They are simply providing their customers who don't have HDTV the best picture they can, while doing everything they can to boost true HDTV.

 

[zarlor]

So saying "primarily it's just a marketing ploy, IMHO" isn't a criticism? I thought it was a criticism when I wrote it. I guess my language just isn't strong enough to be critical.

 

[spwace]

Then why do they call it "Super Definition" when it is no better than "Standard Definition". It is surely intended to mislead. It looks like a double standard is being applied to me. If it is wrong for FOX, it is wrong for ExpressVu. At least the product on FOX is of higher resolution than the programs that do not carry the banner.

 

[DP1]

It is a marketing ploy. But by the same token the channels do look better than the run of the mill channels due to either a better source to begin with (in the case of sourcing it from an HDTV feed for channel 299 that can be seen on non HD receivers) or in the case of less compression compared to other channels.


Dont even bring Fox into this spwace because while Evu might be claiming this is better than some of their regular channels (though chose a poor name for it) it's not like it's the best they offer.


It's about like if Fox were to offer "High Resolution Digital" 480p for their daytime fare but then switched to true HD for thier primetime offerings. If Fox did that (in other words offered some true HD on their system to go along with whatever else they might claim) then people wouldnt hammer on Fox all the time.


The difference is Fox tends to want us to believe that what they currently offer is about good enough. But Evu continues to add more HD offerings as they go.

 

[spwace]

Quote:

Originally posted by zarlor So saying "primarily it's just a marketing ploy, IMHO" isn't a criticism? I thought it was a criticism when I wrote it. I guess my language just isn't strong enough to be critical.

That, of course, makes you the exception to the rule.

 

[spwace]

Quote:

Originally posted by DP1 It is a marketing ploy. But by the same token the channels do look better than the run of the mill channels due to either a better source to begin with (in the case of sourcing it from an HDTV feed for channel 299 that can be seen on non HD receivers) or in the case of less compression compared to other channels. Dont even bring Fox into this spwace because while Evu might be claiming this is better than some of their regular channels (though chose a poor name for it) it's not like it's the best they offer. It's about like if Fox were to offer "High Resolution Digital" 480p for their daytime fare but then switched to true HD for thier primetime offerings. If Fox did that (in other words offered some true HD on their system to go along with whatever else they might claim) then people wouldnt hammer on Fox all the time. The difference is Fox tends to want us to believe that what they currently offer is about good enough. But Evu continues to add more HD offerings as they go.

Speculation about what FOX wants us to believe aside, what either one of them do the rest of the time is irrelevant.


On the issue of misleading advertising, one is as guilty as the other.

 

[Newbie]

Bull. Complete, unadulterated bull. They are misleading no one. They are in fact going out of their way to distinguish it from HDTV. It's not like DP1 said (no offense) as if Fox offered its "High Res" in day time and HDTV at night, it's as if Fox was offering HDTV to everyone with an HD set, and their "High Res" to everyone with an old-fashioned analog set.


If you want to make this into a vast conspiracy to fool the Canadian public, go right ahead. There's a reason though, that ExpressVu customers aren't complaining -- they don't feel they have anything to complain about. Those of us who have HDTV are getting all the HDTV they can give us given current bandwidth restrictions, plus as good a picture as they can on digital non-HD stations, while those without HDTV are getting something that no other provider offers yet, down-converted HDTV.


No one is being fooled or misled. Your motivation is rather clear, trying to take the heat of Fox for their business decision by making a false analogy to ExpressVu's attempt to bring the best picture they can to as many of their customers as possible.


Incidentally, they've also broadcast Fox's "High Resolution" on occasion in "Super Definition." Not surprisingly, it looks like crap.

 

[DP1]

C'mon spwace, if you want to put all else aside, then what's your point? All kinds of companies selling all types of products mislead.


But you seemed to be at a loss for why nobody here is popping Evu. I trust it's because if they buy the top shelf STB from Evu, they can see HD. Simple as that. People around here arent buying bone basic Evu receivers so they dont care about how they market their standard definition channels as viewed on a $75 receiver and Walmart 27" tv.


If they buy a $500 HD capable STB to receive OTA HD programming, Fox provides them with none.


Is something about that unclear to you? Afterall, this is an HDTV forum. But if it's important to you to find some posts hammering on Evu for their deceptive policies in regards to their non HD operations, theres other forums on the web dedicated to entry level Canadian DBS talk. I'm sure there you'll find all kinds of opinions on Super Definition in particular and their non-HD offerings in general.


And while you're reading all that, I think I'll go to the Miller Brewing Co's forums and engage with people over the notion that their Lite Beer while being "less filling" actually, um, "tastes great".

 

[roybillybob]

I don't understand how fox got into this discussion.


The basic fact is that this channel is better than a regular channel. Anyone without HDTV would choose it over the a regular channel. Even if XVU had the most evil motives possible, it would still be the channel to watch.


DP1, how do you get an EVU-6000 in Colorado? Special dispensation from the FCC and/or CRTC?


Ken H, thanks for editing the XVU schedule link.


-Roy