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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, here's my 3 chip DLP review of the Electrohome Vista Pro, 1300 lumens with a native resolution of 800x600. I have taken many pictures. Just click the links below for the photos. I didn't want to embed any of them in my review, because all that does is make it take forever for the page to load. All widescreen photos were taken at about 10' from an 8' wide image. For DVD, I used a Radeon equipped HTPC running at 800x600, 96 Hz (enabled via Powerstrip 3 Beta).


I'll get right to the point. This is the brightest projector I've ever seen. However, it doesn't hurt my eyes. Perhaps it's due to the Xenon bulb, which mimics sunlight. Whites are very, very, bright (like clouds in the daytime sky), but the whites aren't washed out. Any scene in daylight looks like daylight. I mean it looks like you're looking at real daylight. Any scene with color is spectacular. Colors are very bright and saturated. The effect is overwhelming. It's like having an eyegasm and is the best thing about the projector. Colors are also very accurate. I watched "A Better Way To Die" from Columbia Tri-Star last night and the accuracy of the fleshtones really impressed me. Shadow detail isn't so hot. The absolute black level of my 3 chip isn't as good as my DL450 and that's a downer. The blacks in any normal scene look black, but the blacks in scenes with poor contrast look dark gray. I'd like to solve this. I won't be using a gray screen. The pixels appear to be sharper, more defined and harder to see than the single chip units I've seen. Sometimes I can see the pixels, most of the time I don't notice them. I don't know why this is. The colors have more definition or detail. It's hard to describe, but there's a wider color palette with 3 chip. It's one of the first things I noticed. There's really not a whole lot more to say, except this thing looks beautiful. My projector has a fixed (no zoom) 1.2:1 lens and I am able to dial in a razor sharp focus, even sharper than the DL450.


My 3 chip is one of the older models. Newer models supposedly have much higher contrast ratios and more importantly, are using the "black DMD chip's" from TI. So a black that consistently looks black is possible from what I've heard. Apparently NEC makes an XGA unit that can do this. It would probably cost a great deal of money. However, as newer, higher res models are released, companies will want to upgrade to them. This will put downward pressure on the lower res models. When 1920x1080p or greater than SXGA DMD's are released by TI, this should cause the XGA units to become more reasonable in price. So within 2-3 years, we could see some great b-stock opportunities. The big question is whether or not the Panamorph will work with these units. There is a very good chance the Panamorph will work with my 3 chip. An XGA 3 chip with "black" DMD's would likely provide an even more exquisite experience when paired with an anamorphic lens and HTPC or HDTV source.


Here are the pictures (With MEGA thanks to MikeZ for hosting them! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif ). I ran into some problems taking the pictures. The projector is too bright for the camera. Scenes of white look washed out. This is a camera problem, not something you see with the projector. In future pictures, I will turn the contrast way down before I take any. Another problem is the occasional presence of speckles in the image. Some of these pictures have them. Again, this is a camera problem and is not present in the image the projector displays. I could have waited longer to post the pictures and done a better job, but I think it would have been cruel to delay the review again. I will probably take a few more pictures and post them in a future update. Perhaps when I get the Panamorph. So, without further ado...

Aliens

on my mark...

Bishop

I got something...

Blade

Parrrrrtay!

The Contender

Quack, quack

The Messenger

Kodak moment

Se7en

Custom tailoring...

Rain

Very moody

Fight Club

Tyler hates digital cinema...

Jawbreaker

My boyfriend is a satanist

Thinking those deep thoughts...

Starship Troopers

Random and light...

City of Lost Children

Let's dance

The Warriors

Let's run!

Tired of running

Let's run some more!

Vintage '70's NYC train station, minus ever present urine odor...

The Matrix

oooh, green

The Fifth Element

Leeloo on the ledge

Alien3

Hit the sprinklers...

Fox logo
 

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Thanks for your eye(gasm)-opening review, Larry. Do you happen to know the bit rate of the projector. Apparently, the superior color rendition of 3-chip DLPs is a result of the higher color bit processing, which results in a wider range of color shades.


Luca


PS. Particularly inspiring Leloo shot, I might add :)


[This message has been edited by propeller_beach (edited 03-14-2001).]
 

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Ok Larry


Most of us dont believe your findings so im afraid you will have to pack it up and send it around for all of us to use ourselfs to prove your point... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


There is something about a 3 chip dlp. It is the best digital technology I have laid my eyes on. It is very close in comparison to a crt projector only brighter and with better color fidelity.


This was a great buy for what you paid for it. If people keep their eyes open on the internet these do show up from time to time for a great price.


Thanks for the great review. Now its back to my 1 chip http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif




------------------

Thanks Very Much!


Alan Gouger

AV Science
www.avscience.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Luca,

Processing in this machine is 8 bit. I bought my projector on ebay. Some people have been ripped off on ebay. You have to be careful. I would rather buy from a repuatble dealer. But the price was so low ($2700), that I couldn't pass it up.


Alan,

I agree, the colors are superb. It doesn't look as good as projected film, but it's closest I've seen yet. I could loan it out. But at around 85 pounds, it's not exactly portable. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


Andy,

The pixels are less visible on the 3 chip. It looks like a cross between SVGA and XGA. According to my calculations, the Panamorph should work with my unit. I have my fingers crossed. If I'm remembering right, Richard Martin (yes the D-ILA guru) said 3 chip DLP had the best colors. Of course, pixel for pixel, 3 chip DLP costs much more than D-ILA so this has largely been an academic discussion. But not for me. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


[This message has been edited by Larry Davis (edited 03-14-2001).]
 

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Thanks for the great review, Larry! This looks fantastic, and I'm sure it's only better in person.


"Eyegasm" looks like a good way to describe it.


I think that 3-chip DLP and 3-panel D-ILA (both with Xenon bulbs) will produce the best picture this side of the Sony G90 for a while to come. I think that if the resolution were equal, there would be no contest and a well-tuned 3-chip DLP would stand alone at the top of the heap.


Thanks for (finally) posting your review! If nothing else, you might push me over the edge to get a Radeon card in my HTPC http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif .


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Mark Hunter
ht.markhunter.com
 

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Congratulations Larry. Hey Luca! How is the Herbie screen?


I'll take a crack at analyzing Larry's post, as it is in my mind a confirmation of my previous' observations during the HomeImax projects phase. Without trying to sound presumptuous, by any means, I must say. Larry's statements corroborate my previous experimentation with 3 chip DLP. I wholeheartedly stand behind Larry's entire post with a series of big Ayes!


The superb colorimetry that Larry is so taken to and the real life color spectrum that he (and I previously praised) on 3 chip DLP is the result of accurate and consistent digital color triangulation as well as the unpolluted spectrum of the xenon lamp. This purity is preserved within 3 chip DLP unlike other projection methods.


Because the lamp's spectrum, which mimics daylight, (In the tropics-I may add), is not "colored"/filtered/affected (whatever the proper technical term is) like in DILA or LCD, and because all the imaging is done thru precise digital triangulation Larry's brain seems amenable to accepting the 3 chip DLP colorimetry's as life like. More so than with any other projection technology,it seems. Very much what I recall having stated .


It is interesting also that in his SHOWEST viewing conclusions, the rabid lunatic of cutting edge projection television, at unlimited budgets, for the forum, the honorable Chris S. Concluded that 3 chip DLP reigned King.


Larry's post and Chris's pretty much are summing up the same thing that I have felt.


That colorimetry by 3 chip, irrespective somewhat of resolution, Is the button that our brain wants pressed, and few psychovisualists have yet to identify, why.


In one of my early posts I had mentioned shooting a svga camera out a window and comparing it directly with the real ocean view, most prefered the facsimile. I had attributed the phenomenom to accurate 10 bit colorimetry and the xenon lamp. Perhaps I was wrong.


Larry's unit is not a 10 bit model, so color depth it aint. Maybe the 3 chip SONY wasn't 10 bit. Maybe like Larry's it was just darn accurate 8 bit video with an unpoluted light source that reflects reality.


I would really like to see what happens if Larry were to try the Studiotek 130 perf screen that Lee Antin has? And then if he borrowed another lens ( I have a spare sony 1.5 to 2.5 diag) and then tried a schneider 2.35 lens.....


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One night in 1967 I saw the Jetsons. Became personally comitted to excellence in Large screen displays, since....
 

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Lar Bud, is this thing a monster? I mean what are the dimensions and what does it weigh? Is it noisy? Thanks for the review! Wow! only $2,700? did a person or company own it before you? Have fun with your new toy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Mark,

I'm glad I finally posted my review, too. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif The Radeon is a great card. I've got it working fine with Powerstrip 3 beta. I hope Ashley gets to add the custom T&R's you guys need, soon. I really don't think you'll be disappointed.


Cineramax,

I remember your praise of 3 chip colorimetry. You were right. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif They do have a certain something that raises the visual experience to a new level.


Tom,

The dimensions are roughly 29" wide x 23" long x 12" tall. Without the lens, it weighs 73 lbs. The lens is humongous, even bigger than what is used in movie theaters for 35mm film. The lens must weigh at least 10 lbs. It's noisier than my DL450. There's a steady woosh from the fans inside the projector. It's not quiet. But I don't mind that at all. I don't know how it was used before I owned it.
 

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Larry-


Outstanding color! What exactly are your concerns with using the Panamorph with it? Lens diameter?


Kirk
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Kirk,

The Panamorph will accept an image roughly 2 and 1/8" high. This is nearly an exact match of my projector's output at the lens. If the image is too big, I will make the image smaller on all 4 sides (using YXY). Of course, this only applies to 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 movies. 2.35:1 movies only use 75% of the vertical height of a 4:3 panel even with the anamorphic enhancement, so that should work fine. having said all that, I should have enough room for the image. I'm just mentally preparing for an "end of the world" scenario.


Bob,

You're probably right. However my projector situation is somewhat complicated. I'd rather not elaborate. I won't be using a gray screen, but no one should take that to mean that I disapprove of them. Quite the opposite, actually.
 

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Hey Larry,


Would you be able to post some pics of the actual projector in relation to the DL450?


Just curious what you had to get repaired on the unit? Was it easy to find a good service depot for the projector?


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lance

I'm looking for a job!

Resume online at http://resumes.dice.com/lkstitch
 

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Hey Peter! "Herbie" rated very well. I was impressed. I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm almost done with my theater, and you're welcome to come on over and check it out. We'll have a chance to talk...so give me notice, and come on by.


For now, can you clarify for me, when you talk about the superb colorimetry of 3-Chip DLPs? My question is: Is the lifelike color display and the consistent tiangulation you're referring to, independent of the color processing's bit rate? How is the brain able to perceive a lifelike rendition when depht of field is so low? I always thought that the lifelike approach of 3-Chip DLPs was a direct result of its color depht displayed, as our very own perception of lifelike phenomena is in direct correlation with our depht of vision and color shading. I thought the much larger color palette in 3-Chip DPLs was exclusively due to the wider color tonality achieved as a result of a richer color processing. Are there other factors involved that make 8-bit acceptable as lifelike, as opposed to the results achieved with a 10-bit processor, or is the difference really minute between the two to our eyes?


Cheers,


Luca


PS. My personal take is I think Larry is being tricked into having an eyegasm of a picture because of watching to much of Leloo http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif Grrrr..
 

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euh, isn't it still better to have a 8bit 3DLPs than a 10bit Mono DLP ?

I think so. I'd rather have the 3DLP SVGA than the 1DLP XGA with those damn wheel color rainbows!!

I might sound stupid but if you enter in RGB the projector, isn't the bit factor nul ??

I think I'm wrong saying that http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


great shots Larry!! what a beast you bought.


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for cinema sound in your HT, use cinema speakers and cinema amps! unbeatable.


[This message has been edited by David600 (edited 03-15-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Luca,

Milla is a serious cutie. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif I wish she was in more movies. I will take some more pictures after I get my Panamorph. I'm starting to get my hopes up that it will ship soon.


David,

Yeah it's a "beast" all right. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif Not exactly a portable projector. The lens weighs more than most single chip projectors.
 

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Larry,


Thanks for the pics.


To give everyone an idea of the deal Larry got. If I am not mistaken, TAW is trying to unload this exact same projector for over $20K!


-Mr. Wigggles


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The Mothership is now boarding.
 

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Larry,


The color does indeed look great! And with the resolution and light output raised with the Panamorph, it might even get better still.


With so much light output, you might want to just paint a wall gray and shoot on that.


Either way the pictures look wonderful, and $2700 is an amazing deal.


Enjoy,

-Dean.
 
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