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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been using my EyeOne Display LT and ColorHCFR for about 6 months. I've used it to calibrate 3 rear projection CRT sets, 1 LCD flat panel, and 4 plasmas. I'm using the test patterns on the AVS HD 709 disc. The EyeOne Display LT works well and the results are great.


However, my concern is that every single set that the EyeOne Display LT has measured is showing the xy value of red primary as being way off. Not a single one of the TVs I've measured has been at x = 0.640, y = 0.330, but rather they're usually at x = 0.664, y = 0.315. On some of the sets that are known to be accurate out-of-the-box (e.g. Panasonic 800U), the blue primary and green primary are pretty much dead-on. It's just always the red primary that's off.


Could it be a problem with my colorimeter? Or could it be a problem with the red primary window pattern on the AVS HD 709 disc?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster /forum/post/15529956


I've been using my EyeOne Display LT and ColorHCFR for about 6 months. I've used it to calibrate 3 rear projection CRT sets, 1 LCD flat panel, and 4 plasmas. I'm using the test patterns on the AVS HD 709 disc. The EyeOne Display LT works well and the results are great.


However, my concern is that every single set that the EyeOne Display LT has measured is showing the xy value of red primary as being way off. Not a single one of the TVs I've measured has been at x = 0.640, y = 0.330, but rather they're usually at x = 0.664, y = 0.315. On some of the sets that are known to be accurate out-of-the-box (e.g. Panasonic 800U), the blue primary and green primary are pretty much dead-on. It's just always the red primary that's off.


Could it be a problem with my colorimeter? Or could it be a problem with the red primary window pattern on the AVS HD 709 disc?

Have you tried Tom Huffmans? I only meantion it because it is free. I mean you could always go get DVE HD Basics Blueray or whatever but there is no color windows on that disk and the other PAY option is Getgray.


Perhaps check Tom's against AVS 709. I might try that too when I get a chance.


With AVS 709 I get x: 0.673 and y: 0.322 on my PZ85 which is about right for this TV. This is with a new D2 and AVS709. I just checked my file from testing using Getgray and it agrees with AVS709 for my red.


I should try Tom's too though.

C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

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Originally Posted by cvearl /forum/post/15544789


Have you tried Tom Huffmans? I only meantion it because it is free. I mean you could always go get DVE HD Basics Blueray or whatever but there is no color windows on that disk and the other PAY option is Getgray.


Perhaps check Tom's against AVS 709. I might try that too when I get a chance.


With AVS 709 I get x: 0.673 and y: 0.322 on my PZ85 which is about right for this TV. This is with a new D2 and AVS709. I just checked my file from testing using Getgray and it agrees with AVS709 for my red.


I should try Tom's too though.

C.

I have DVE HD Basics, but there's no color window patterns on that disc. Frankly, I find that disc rather useless and wouldn't have bought it had I found the AVS 709 thread earlier.


So you're getting about the same xy reading on your PZ85 as I am with several plasmas and rear projection CRTs. Although I've read that the 58" PZ800U is quite accurate and even on that set I'm measuring x = 0.664, y = 0.315 whereas CNET measured x= 0.638, y = 0.334 which is much closer to spec than what I'm reading with the EyeOne Display LT.


Strangely, the only set that has come close to spec for red with my testing set up is a 42" Toshiba RV530U LCD flat panel, which according to CNET has inaccurate colors! Go figure!


I would compare to Tom Huffman's disc but that one is SD and therefore will definitely report a different xy reading than AVS HD 709.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster /forum/post/15547393


I would compare to Tom Huffman's disc but that one is SD and therefore will definitely report a different xy reading than AVS HD 709.

Depends on the player. It is supposed to map/twist to HD matrices when it encounters SD Matrix. At least that is what my BD35 is reported to do. At least via HDMI.


My only confirmation is an assumption based on the following.


When I play regular TV through COAX, in the menu the TV reads SD MATRIX (Which is greyed out and serves only as an indicator I guess) and when I play ANYHTING through my BD35 via HDMI it says HD.


Secondly, when I play Getgray (SD right?) it still says HD MATRIX in the video menu of the TV aaaannnnndddd the x and y are almost exactly the same.



I have Tom's somewhere. I will try it out.


C.
 

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The matrices you guys are talking about impact the a primary color's brightness (Y), not its hue or saturation, which is represented by the xy coordinates. In any case, the HD and SD specs for red are almost identical in this respect, so you wouldn't expect to see a difference here either.


The D2 is not perfect and its accuracy can be improved upon by better instruments, but it is not off by a large margin. It seems particularly accurate with red (it does worse in the yellow-green-cyan arc).


I think that all the original poster has discovered is that many commercial displays ship with an oversaturated red primary.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman /forum/post/15547789


The matrices you guys are talking about impact the a primary color's brightness (Y), not its hue or saturation, which is represented by the xy coordinates. In any case, the HD and SD specs for red are almost identical in this respect, so you wouldn't expect to see a difference here either.


The D2 is not perfect and its accuracy can be improved upon by better instruments, but it is not off by a large margin. It seems particularly accurate with red (it does worse in the yellow-green-cyan arc).


I think that all the original poster has discovered is that many commercial displays ship with an oversaturated red primary.


And here all along I thought my PZ85's SD and HD Matrixes were refering to Rec 601 versus Rec 709 color.


Get to wear my "learned me somethin new" badge today.


C.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl /forum/post/15550935


And here all along I thought my PZ85's SD and HD Matrixes were refering to Rec 601 versus Rec 709 color.


Get to wear my "learned me somethin new" badge today.

They do. The Y value is part of the color's spec.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman /forum/post/15547789


I think that all the original poster has discovered is that many commercial displays ship with an oversaturated red primary.

Very possible, but what bothers me is the xy value CNET reports out-of-the-box for the PZ800U versus what I'm reading: CNET: x= 0.638, y = 0.334 VS. ME: x = 0.664, y = 0.315.


There's quite a discrepancy there. I wish I had another meter to compare my EyeOne Display LT against.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster /forum/post/15552844


Very possible, but what bothers me is the xy value CNET reports out-of-the-box for the PZ800U versus what I'm reading: CNET: x= 0.638, y = 0.334 VS. ME: x = 0.664, y = 0.315.


There's quite a discrepancy there. I wish I had another meter to compare my EyeOne Display LT against.

I got x0.652, y0.331 so there is obviously some unit-to-unit variation. The Pannys are also doing something weird with their inputs. I measured different color performance with a YCbCr input compared to HDMI RGB.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman /forum/post/15553438


I got x0.652, y0.331 so there is obviously some unit-to-unit variation. The Pannys are also doing something weird with their inputs. I measured different color performance with a YCbCr input compared to HDMI RGB.

And (on the PZ85U) are they not slightly different going from Standard/Custom to Cinema? xy that is. Seen that referenced somewhere and I thought I saw that behavior on mine as well.


Possible this is the case with the PZ800?


C.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl /forum/post/15556707


And (on the PZ85U) are they not slightly different going from Standard/Custom to Cinema? xy that is. Seen that referenced somewhere and I thought I saw that behavior on mine as well.


Possible this is the case with the PZ800?


C.

Well I measured xy using THX picture mode as did CNET.
 
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