[Jay1]

(Disclaimer: these are not definitive measurements of performance)

Alright so anyone who followed my "pondering an 18" thread knows I'm messing around with 1.4" exit waveguides. I originally intended to test out the Eminence N314T, but Eminence keeps delaying the release. My original order was swapped by US Speakers at no cost to me for the FaitalPRO HF146. I will compare results of the SEOS 18 1.4" against the 18sound XT1464 waveguides. Tonight I tested the SEOS since it is on loan from Eirch. I should have time to test the 18sound by the end of the week.

This is a very cool looking polymide diaphragm on the FP. This material along with a slightly smaller 2.5" size promises good HF performance.

A pretty serious neo ring magnet

The SEOS 18 is pretty large, much larger then the XT1464

PS4 controller for scale. I'm told this 1.4" throat SEOS has a depth similar to the 24, which is a lot deeper then the 1" 18

Measurements are taken at 1 meter. 1/24 smoothing. On axis looks very good and workable with extension to 16khz. The raggedness above 10khz is likely breakup, but it is so minor and well controlled/dampened that it isn't relevant to me.

Here we have an off axis 0 - 60 (skipped 15 degrees). I really dont have the room to get accurate out further then this. I'm a little surprised by the bunching at 2-6khz at 30-45 degrees? For pattern control this looks good to 500-600hz easily

Testing HD at a normal level of 85db this driver shows 0 strain and could be crossed as low as needed.

But this is a high powered horn setup that will be paired with a beastly woofer so I really need to see what is going on. I really dont like running sweeps this loud in the house but for a few seconds I put my ear protection on and let it rip at 105db sweep. And we can see 2nd order starts to rise below 1.8khz and 3rd order 1.6 khz. I'm not sure what to make of this yet, but right now it looks like crossing at 650hz on the SEOS 18 is out of the question as I'm only getting about 7 db of gain from the horn. I'm not confident the crossover will remove the distortion.

Impedance on SEOS

 

[Jay1]

Xt1464

Got a chance to take plenty of measurements today. I am very impressed with this 18sound waveguide!

Build quality isnt as nice as the fiberglass seos obviously. There was some roughness in the throat from the casting, but a few seconds with some 400 grit sand paper cleaned it up nicely.

The mounting frame on the XT is setup for surface mounting as it terminates from a roundover to a sharp edge. There's also a heavy duty gasket pre-installed.

Again all measurements @ 1 meter 1/24 smoothing

On axis this has got to be one of the flattest measuring CD/horn combos I've seen, Other then the bump around 1khz this is extremely smooth.

Off axis horizontal 0-60 15 degree increments. There was probably some questions on if my measurements are valid after looking at the SEOS above, but I think this should clear up that maybe. This is very good performance, and you can see the -6db @ 30 degrees showing this to be a 60 degree horn

Here's a normalized polar for those that like these things

I thought this measurement was very interesting. I forgot to include the legends but the SEOS is black below. This is with the face of each horn at the same distance and the amp at the same level. The XT has an across the board sensitivity advantage below 14 khz. The top end on the XT drops off earlier, but it extends slightly higher.

Nothing much to see with distortion performance

Impedance shows a lower FS and smaller second hump

 

[chrapladm]

Nice work so far. I WAS going to have a pair of SEOS 18 1.4's and also be using the FP 146 but after months of waiting I wont be doing the SEOS 18 1.4" now. But I am looking at getting the 18 Sounds horn and possibly the1480a. SO I am curious what you come up with for your SEOS because I may try and do that horn again if I can actually get the horn from the local supplier.

The 18 Sound horn I can get easily and on time. Same with the 1480a. Subscribed for sure.

 

[tuxedocivic]

Cool. Looking forward to the next piece.

The off axis response of the SEOS looks quite bad. You sure something didn't go wrong there?

 

[Jay1]

While my measurements are definitely not perfect, they should at least be close enough to see what is happening. I dont have a turn table, I use a couple 48" squares to move the measurement setup down a line while keeping the same mic height.

I might measure it again on Friday when I plan on measuring the 18sound since I'll have a lot more time

 

[Erich H]

Jay1, I'm looking forward to how things turn out.

Last year I ordered the HF144 (I think that was the model) but didn't get time to test it so I returned it before opening. Glad someone is testing a similar driver.

I WAS going to have a pair of SEOS 18 1.4's and also be using the FP 146 but after months of waiting I wont be doing the SEOS 18 1.4" now.

What was their reason for not getting it to you?

 

[chrapladm]

What was their reason for not getting it to you?

I wanted to order one SEOS 18 1.4 for a center channel with dual 10's below. (Cinema 88 style) That was in October.(I believe) Then delays and Autotech taking a little while to do their thing and March1st it will be here. Had to pay in full for my horn and then wait. So March came around and nothing. Then a week later it had made it here. But the local imported was going on vacation for a few months outside the country. I was going to have him see if he could test the horn with one of his HF146's. ANd he said when he got back. BUT I didnt realize that was going to be months.

So I just said to send it to me and dont worry about the testing. Then he said he didnt want to part with only a single WG. They are hard to get in and take a long time to replace stock. So he was only selling them in pairs. So I said fine I will look at getting more later but I will just take mine now. Long story short he is giving me a refund when he gets back from vacation.

So many months later and no horn and also no dual 16 ohm 8's that I also ordered from him to show for my time. SO I am just going to go a different route now. That way I know I will get what I want in a short amount of time.

Beyma, 18 Sound, BC and some RCF(thomann) I can get at great prices. And if it is the first three companies I mentioned it will be here in 1.5months. Thomann is about 3 weeks.

Anyways sorry Jay1. I look forward to your findings though because I may still go this route in the far future.

 

[JohnDean]

Is it just distortion in the pics or are the 1.4" versions of different proportions than the 1" throated versions?

 

[Jay1]

Is it just distortion in the pics or are the 1.4" versions of different proportions than the 1" throated versions?

If you're talking about the SEOS yes it is deeper then the 1" version.

 

[Jay1]

Alright XT1464 added to post #2
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-diy-speakers-subs/1953585-faitalpro-hf146.html#post33083985

I took some time to remeasure the SEOS just to make sure I didnt screw something up with my first set. I'll say again these arent perfect measurements and shouldnt be considered the last word on anything performance wise. They are definitely good enough to see what is going on as can be seen in post #2

Here is my second set, only 0-45 this time as the same issue presented its self. I included my impulse of the 45 degree. The further off axis I get the lower my gate has to go

And here is my ghetto measurement setup for walking things down a line. Old pillows for dampening first reflections

 

[tuxedocivic]

Wow ya the SEOS just doesn't do well. That is really shocking to me, but I'm not sure I've seen the 1.4 version measured. The 1" SEOS horns have text book perfect polars. What's the exit angle of that CD? Doubt that would cause those issues those. Could be diffraction since it's not in a baffle. It would be good to see a different CD on it in a baffle (of course I don't expect that from you, just would be interesting). The sensitivity difference isn't a surprise. To be expect really. The 18 sounds horn does a great job. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Jay1]

Yeah I'm really confused as to what the issue is. I have no idea what the exit angles are on the horns. All I can think of is the deeper profile vs width then normal is somehow not working right? I was seriously getting myself ready to order 2 more of the SEOS before I even started the test because I was expecting it to walk all over the XT.

Yeah I'm going to stick with the FaitalPRO XT combo, I just ordered 2 more WGs. I'll be shipping the SEOS back to Erich tomorrow.

 

[chrapladm]

Well that makes things cheaper for me now. Thanks for measuring the FP combo. How low do you think you can use the FP combo?

I have been looking at 90 x 60 combos and Radian 745, 18 Sound 1480A, 18 Sound 4015(1.4), FP HF146 and BMS 4594HE coax. BMS being the most costly. Need to have about a 7-800hz XO if possible with the horn combo. Looking at using some horn loaded 12's for under neath this combo.

 

[Erich H]

I would like to say that I wasn't the one asking the horn company to make a SEOS-18 with the 1.4" throat.

They did make a SEOS-22 and a SEOS-30 as well but I haven't seen those yet. I haven't tested anything bigger than a SEOS-18 with a 1" throat, which does perform really good. But it doesn't look like the 1.4" model at all.

 

[Jay1]

While there's some bunching at 700hz this XT horn actually looks usable to 500hz depending on the CD. I'm thinking LR4 at 700hz is going to work well with the HF146. I'm still a little confused by the distortion measurements because I'm used to dome tweeters, but honestly the distortion is still very low and it flattens out. Faital claims the CD can do 650hz LR4 with 40 watts applied and I believe them.

I'm back to the idea of a beefy 15". There's just to much time and money involved to risk my project on an 18".

 

[moosifee]

I wonder how Faital's own 1.4" horn would stack up.

 

[chrapladm]

While there's some bunching at 700hz this XT horn actually looks usable to 500hz depending on the CD. I'm thinking LR4 at 700hz is going to work well with the HF146. I'm still a little confused by the distortion measurements because I'm used to dome tweeters, but honestly the distortion is still very low and it flattens out. Faital claims the CD can do 650hz LR4 with 40 watts applied and I believe them.

I'm back to the idea of a beefy 15". There's just to much time and money involved to risk my project on an 18".

Well this is good news then. I think all the options I wanted to try could have done 700hz but now I know for sure the HF146 is a definite option.

 

[Jay1]

I wonder how Faital's own 1.4" horn would stack up.

One way to find out It's a little smaller but it probably works pretty well. They're only claiming 800hz.

 

[Face2]

What is your pivet point for off axis measurements?

 

[Jay1]

I'm not rotating anything. I have one square centered on the horn, the second square moves down the line to let me reposition the mic at a specific point. I use the polar tool in PCD to tell me what distance from center I need to be for a specific degree off axis.