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Discussion Starter #103
It looks as if the rears are too wide. The dotted line looks like better placement to separate them from the sides.
Hey d_c, the dashed lines are the construction lines for the "recommended" viewing angles
Below is a Paint markup of the plan with the back soffit in place and what I was thinking for the corner locations of the back surrounds.
That being said if it makes more sense I could move them in along the back soffit

There is a school of thought that I mostly agree with, that you should rotate the speakers to the lesser degree angle in a theater where you have that ability - ESPECIALLY, perhaps exlusively? in a home theater with multiple rows.

IIRC, some well experienced people like @beastaudio, and @dlbeck, and @Scott Simonian, @desertdome, etc have even recommended putting your side surrounds slightly before the front row, and putting the rear surrounds on the back of the side wall, (more in a typical surround speaker position) - because our ears can hear the differences in the surround field better that way.

I've not played with that myself, but having sat in a few home theaters where that concept was employeed it does seem to work generally pretty well IMO. It's at least worth consideration. I know I mounted my rear surround closer to the dolby spec placement (using the maximums because of room constraints --- used about 110* for sides, and about 150* for rears) and even though I have two speakers back there, I'd never know if it was the left rear playing or the right rear speaker playing because my ears can't easily identify the diffference unless only one speaker is playing a test tone at at time. In actual content - to my ears - it's all just rear fill the way it is with the Dolby spec - so I might as well have just used a single speaker back there --- this is to my ears anyway. Putting the rear surrounds on my side walls would potentially have given me more of an ability to discern from which side the rear surround speaker is playing.
Hey Archaea, The Dolby recommendation are what I based the angles off of as shown in my drawing
Unfortunately do to room restrictions and putting the side surrounds in the columns the side will be slightly back of 90 degrees. I have the column pushed as much toward the screen as I can with the pole in it

The red triangle depict the corner speakers and blue lines would be roughly where they would point (toward center and down). Though is that angled would be preventing any reflections from side soffits and pointing to far listener would assist in "balancing" (probably wrong term) the sound. Same type principle as toeing in the fronts
Dimensionally there is ~ 5 feet of horizontal separation and ~ 3 feet vertical or ~7 feet straight line
Just noticed in the image that things don't quite look centered (must have been the viewing angle when in Setchup) but the seats / screen will be centered between the soffits



Different angled view of back left corner


Those to me look far enough off from the side surrounds to be fine. The biggest thing is the separation of channels, and you seem to have that well squared away.
Looks good to me. This location will have better rear stereo separation than further back and closer together would.
Hey beastaudio and Scott, welcome to my madness, with the image above would you say there is still a good separation?
 

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Agree with scott. And if you did that with the sides, the rears could still go where you had them previously, which will give better stereo separation between the two rears. My rears are currently on the back wall but I am contemplating moving them out and up to side wall about 10 feet back from the sides, very similar to what you have in your original mock up.
 

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Discussion Starter #106
Looks good. You could make it even more immersive by pushing the two side surrounds about a foot forward too but you don't have to, of course.
Ya in a perfect word I would but with the pole being were it is I would have to build a pretty big column, already pushing my luck on its size with WAF


Agree with scott. And if you did that with the sides, the rears could still go where you had them previously, which will give better stereo separation between the two rears. My rears are currently on the back wall but I am contemplating moving them out and up to side wall about 10 feet back from the sides, very similar to what you have in your original mock up.
Sorry but I got confused ..... I'm not sure what you mean by where I previously had them.
It could be my miss communication on the previous picture as it did not have all the information or show the soffit.
Are you referring to possibly putting the rear surrounds in the far column and in the corner of the two walls?
 

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Ya in a perfect word I would but with the pole being were it is I would have to build a pretty big column, already pushing my luck on its size with WAF



Sorry but I got confused ..... I'm not sure what you mean by where I previously had them.
It could be my miss communication on the previous picture as it did not have all the information or show the soffit.
Are you referring to possibly putting the rear surrounds in the far column and in the corner of the two walls?
This post: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-general-home-theater-media-game-rooms/1974417-family-cave-theater-3.html#post35124226

Where the speakers are not on the back wall but rather on the side walls while still far enough back.
 

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Discussion Starter #108 (Edited)
This post: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-general-home-theater-media-game-rooms/1974417-family-cave-theater-3.html#post35124226

Where the speakers are not on the back wall but rather on the side walls while still far enough back.
Ok I think I understand now. The only real side wall that I have is the one to the left of the screen. Side speaker on the right will be in the column, on the left in a fake column but technically a side wall.
I could put the left rear surround on the side wall but then the right rear would be out in "space". That why I was thinking high in the soffit corners.
This is all based on a rear soffit, which I am still not 100% sure on


Or would lower on the side wall (left) and in the far column (right) be better, even thought they are not the same distance?


I can easily post more views if it helps
 

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Discussion Starter #109
So my monoprice order can in and I got to say that DHL was inefficient on this shipment. The order got split into to boxes for some stupid reason but then they must have got split up in transit as I got one yesterday and one today. Oh well at least I got them and didn't have to go to there depot in the city like last time. Last time they claimed they could find the address...... our office is on center street of a town of 1500 houses.... LOL


Got to say that redmere cable is pretty sexy looking..... just hope it works as good as very one reports
 

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Ok I think I understand now. The only real side wall that I have is the one to the left of the screen. Side speaker on the right will be in the column, on the left in a fake column but technically a side wall.
I could put the left rear surround on the side wall but then the right rear would be out in "space". That why I was thinking high in the soffit corners.
This is all based on a rear soffit, which I am still not 100% sure on


Or would lower on the side wall (left) and in the far column (right) be better, even thought they are not the same distance?


I can easily post more views if it helps

Well, to future-proof yourself, (not sure if you are already planning on it, I came late to the party :D ) I would bring side and rear surrounds down to near ear level or just above seat-backs to allow yourself the ability to add immersive audio speakers above you i.e. Atmos/DTS:X/Auro. I previously had my sides mounted at ceiling height, firing down and when I added the four ceiling speakers, the effect was not as it is supposed to be intended. Putting the side surrounds (at least, haven't figured out how to pull off the rears yet with two rows) down to ear level changed the effect to how it is intended. Bottom line, the more separation you have from your satellite speakers, and even the mains is a good thing to create a more enveloping surround field.

Oh and you will love the redmere cable, don't worry about that :D
 

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Discussion Starter #111
Well, to future-proof yourself, (not sure if you are already planning on it, I came late to the party :D ) I would bring side and rear surrounds down to near ear level or just above seat-backs to allow yourself the ability to add immersive audio speakers above you i.e. Atmos/DTS:X/Auro. I previously had my sides mounted at ceiling height, firing down and when I added the four ceiling speakers, the effect was not as it is supposed to be intended. Putting the side surrounds (at least, haven't figured out how to pull off the rears yet with two rows) down to ear level changed the effect to how it is intended. Bottom line, the more separation you have from your satellite speakers, and even the mains is a good thing to create a more enveloping surround field.

Oh and you will love the redmere cable, don't worry about that :D
FUTURE..... I'm having trouble with the present :eek: LOL
You just had to mention immersive didn't you....... BOOM (head exploded)
Kidding aside, its a very good point you make if I put my rear surrounds high then that would limit future upgrade to immersive.
That then makes the rear locations a challenge especially the right rear..... I could make the column a touch larger and maybe angle it to the theater area
Left rear in looking at the plan might be tricky to hide as I am going for a stealthy look
I am assuming that calibration would work out the distance issue
 

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Discussion Starter #112
Not a lot of work progress, built a couple of starter soffits to get them ready to hang and tore out a bit of wall to plan for the storage closet door


Spent some money though, a skid of Barricade subflooring (100), probably going to need another 50-60. Managed to get them on sale a Rona, 15% off..... I like sales!
One Insteon dimmer switch and bulb for testing, I don't have a controller yet but Memory express had them locally so I grabbed them. After readying some of the LED related issues I wanted one to try different bulbs
Also grabbed a Blue Ray reader to rip some of my movies to the NAS using MakeMKV, works good but man those files are big!
Expensive non productive weekend!


Hooked up a netbook that I have kicking around to the AVR with Foobar and set up my playlist
 

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Since you are in the construction phase, I'd definitely consider planning for immersive audio if you still have time and placement flexibility. You won't have to place your 'regular' surrounds in a new spot but definitely consider them not being up high at the ceiling but just low enough to be near ear level but high enough to clear the head area. They look good in post #103 .
 

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Discussion Starter #114
Since you are in the construction phase, I'd definitely consider planning for immersive audio if you still have time and placement flexibility. You won't have to place your 'regular' surrounds in a new spot but definitely consider them not being up high at the ceiling but just low enough to be near ear level but high enough to clear the head area. They look good in post [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=103][URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 03[/URL] [/URL] .
Hey Scott, I am certainly in the construction phase and probably will be for a while :(. Having flexibility is very important as it seams that things are always changing. In ceiling and future wiring to immersives will be pretty easy me as I am doing a drop ceiling..... I know not ideal but it important to me.
In Post [URL=http://www.avsforum.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 03[/URL] I was trying to show the rear surrounds and how they would be high in the corners of the soffits. Sounds like this is not such a great idea to do the high rears. My current outside column design is to be minimal (just enough room for 2 rows of 3 light switches)

This is a picture with your back to the screen.
#1 in red is the original though for the high rear surrounds
#2 in green is what I believe you are referring to. The challenge with #2 is hiding the speakers and the different distances to each.

 

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Discussion Starter #115
My Wife is an Enabler

So I am working away this morning when my wife emails me to check out our local buy and sell on Facebook, "there is a rack on there you might be interested in"
Well of course I drop everything and check it out.... there I see a two post 7 foot rack with 5 shelves, power supply, patch panel, couple blanks, 2U cable organizers and a long black thing on the side....



With out even thinking about it I posted that I was interested..... cause here's the thing....... it was FREE
Heck ya, turns out the guy (real nice also gave me a lead on some very shallow lighting, I get to that another time) got a new rack and had gotten this one for free from work....
Also the long black thing is a wire chase that runs the full height (huh never see one before.... COOL)

So now as you can see in the picture it sits in my garage, as we were unloading it and the euphoria starts to dwindle, or maybe the blood rush cause it was darn heavy on the bottom end, I start to think about the rack that I have already started and have spend quite a few hours on



I like what I have built so far and have planned for it but I just couldn't resist getting this two post rack, even if it is way bigger than I will ever need

The dilemma now is do I ripe out everything and plan for this new rack or keep existing or maybe some kind of hybrid..... MY BRAIN HURTS and is swimming with ideas......
 

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Discussion Starter #117
I was staring at it again this morning before work and made a couple of quick measurements, looks like I might be able to slide it in right behind my existing frame work perfectly, the challenge will be the 6" angle iron on the bottom in the front that will conflict with wall framing. The down side (maybe) is that it is just a 2 post rack.... but like I said at free even if I just use the large cable chase is was worth the work to get it out of his basement.


a nice AV rack beats shelves in my opinion, but probably only if you can fit a nice glass door on it - with smoked glass preferably.
I agree but the price of a rack and my thriftiness that held me back from going down the rabbit hole of cost on all the rack accessories (just a rack shelf is $50-60), the plan has always been to have a door on the rack to keep with the stealthy look..... plan of the moment is a full height 007 silhouette in shooting position poster / door.
 

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I like what I have built so far and have planned for it but I just couldn't resist getting this two post rack, even if it is way bigger than I will ever need

The dilemma now is do I ripe out everything and plan for this new rack or keep existing or maybe some kind of hybrid..... MY BRAIN HURTS and is swimming with ideas......
That doesn't exist. I said that when I got my first rack, its a 6 footer 4 post from Middle Atlantic. "Never in a million years will I need all this space" I said. Well, that turned out to be false, I am almost to the point of getting a matching rack to put in my back room for amps, so I can clear up space for other things I want to put in my main space....
 

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Discussion Starter #120
LOL ya I hear that.... said the same thing about my work shop


On a grim note I started putting down some more Barricade subfloor this evening..... ran out of my old stock so I grabbed some of the new stuff from the garage down to the basement.
Same manufacture same product....... different fricken dimensions..... OH NO...... I may have curse a little .... ok a lot
Turns out they have changed there manufacturing since I last bought the stuff and now it is 3/8" skinnier and about an 1/8" thinner.


So the plan of the moment is to pull up some of the old stuff and move to the end to finish and have one continuous line ~32 feet then shim the thinner at the transition so the height matches for that first row of thinner material.


I get some picture when another day when I have calmed down a little


UGH!!!!!!
 
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