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I found a link to the Mitsubishi owner manuals as downloadble PDF files including the new DVD player models:
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/manuals.html


Looking over the user manual for the 8040 model it appears to be based on the same design as the new Denon 1200 but with a few additional features and setup options, similar to the way the Panasonic RP82/XP50 had some features not available in the Denon 1600. Looks like a cheaper ($249 vs $399) way to get a model similar to the Denon 1200. If the output video quality is decent (frequency response) this could be the only decent priced new model DVD player with a Faroudja/DCDi deinterlacer. Looks like Mitsubishi is taking over for the niche Panasonic used to hold a couple years ago but gave up with their lower quality/cost players.


I haven't been able to find any online reseller (including Tweeter's own website) showing they carry the Mitsubishi DVD models so they are either not out yet or just coming out - so no way to confirm pricing or availablity yet. I'd like to find a retail store that stocks it and has a good return policy to check one out - I can measure the frequency response with a scope and AVIA DVD test patterns just like in the famous DVD-shootout tests to see if it is anywhere close to the older Panasonic players.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I am just waiting for some positive feedback. If this new Mit gets the kiss of approval around here, I'm going to get a couple because I think this is the end of the line for good inexpensive analog out DVD players.


Not to mention how I got shut out of a Panasonic RP82 because I looked for a cheaper price. Poooof, they were all gone.


So even if the DD-8040 is recommended, what's the supply going to be like. Only Tweeter sells them in the Boston area. So much for diversification!
 

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The Mitsubishi model appears identical in the user manual to the newer Denon DVD-1200, and some have tested the new 1200 and claimed it looked as good as the 1600. If I could find a DD-8040 in a Tweeter store I might try one!
 

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I checked a local Tweeter store today and found they carried the Mitsubishi DD-8040 for $249 (listed as regularly price of $279) and also the Denon's like the Denon DVD-1200. I had them hook up both and ran tests on both in the store and was able to confirm they appear to be the same basic design - all the setup menus were virtually identical except the Mitsubishi had a few extra setup features over the Denon.


Since I confirmed Tweeter stores have a 30day "no questions asks" return policy, I took one home and am testing it out with AVIA and VE tests and other DVDs plus a scope.


I've already confirmed it has some high frequency rolloff similar to the DVD-900 (about 3db down at the upper end) but this is in standard mode. Their is a user mode where one can increase sharpness a bit and cut the upper end rolloff to about 1.5db or less with slight ringing. There is black level on/off control but it appears to reset to "ON" after changing a disc or power on/off and I find I prefer the "OFF" position which doesn't ever get saved so its a little annoying to have to set it "OFF" on any disc insertion (takes about 5 button presses - maybe I'll make a macro on my universal remote).


I confirmed Faroudja DCDi worked as advertised - removing jaggies on the famous VE flag waving scene. The Mitsubishi successfully played regular DVDs, plus recorded DVD+R and DVD+RW discs I had lying around. It also played a VCD on CDRW OK but did not support any SVCDs on CDR/RW - this is the same as the Denons.


Some of the new features with the newer Faroudja chipset that this model and the new Denon 910/1200 models have compared to the older models include zooming (x1.3,x2,x4) and video adjustment (sharpness, color, tint, digital MPEG artifact and noise reduction). The Mitsubishi (but not the Denon) also supports a mode for 16:9 displays where 4:3 video titles can display in proper aspect ratio in window-box format instead of having to manually selecting such a mode on the TV. I verified this works well. For non-anamorphic widescreen titles they are output widescreen and the display mode in the TV must still be altered for them compared to FULL mode on anamorphic titles - as on most other DVD players.


Next I need to look for some test material to check for the various chroma bug cases. I did notice that on the AVIA DVD's YC delay test pattern that the solid color rectanges appeared to flicker in progressive mode (but not in interlaced output mode) but I read that the Faroudja chip might cause this. Can anyone check that AVIA DVD YC delay pattern on other Faroudja-based players like the older Denon DVD-1600 or a Panasonic RP82,XP30,XP50,RP62?
 

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I tried a DD-8040 before I bought my DVD-1600 and, IMHO, the 8040 is no 1600! Even after calibration with Avia I thought the pic was soft and the colors lacking the depth that they have with the 1600. It reminded me more of the Denon DVD-900 I tried last year than it did my 1600 or the XP50 I had before that. And I won't even get into the differences in build quality!


ThumperBoy - what was your opinion of the PQ when zoomed? I thought that even at 1.3X zoom there was noticable degradation in PQ.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thumper, what about Progressive Scan button?


Is it on the unit or remote to swirtch back to interlaced when non-anamorphic DVDs are played.



Also, how is the remote compared to the Panasonic which was a so-so remote.
 

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There is only a slide switch on the back for interlaced vs progressive mode selection on the DD-8040. It does however have a working mode that displays 4:3 video as a windowbox with black bars on the sides for a 16:9 display - something the Denons all lack, I like that feature. I don't need to switch to interlaced mode for non-anamorphic DVDs since my HDTV supports zoom mode for them in progressive mode. The remote I would say is average, but I use a univeral learning remote for everything so I could care less as long as all the major button features are available.

One thing I didn't like was that the black level on/off setting doesn't get saved - it always comes up "ON" on power up or with a disc change. I prefer "OFF" so I need to go thru 5 button press sequence to turn it OFF each time - thats annoying. The DD-8040 does have user video settings and you can increase the sharpness to get rid of the "soft" look. I measured the frequency response with a scope and the aVIA mutliburst test pattern just like in the Secrets report. In standard mode it did measure similar to the Denon 900, but with sharpness setting at +1 it was closer to the Denon 1600 and I could increse it further to +2 the maximum setting. Color saturation seemed more than sufficient but could be adjusted as well in the user settings. I confirmed the DCDi deinterlacing on video material - it did remove the jaggies from the famous VE flag waving sequence. At $249 vs the Denon DVD1200's $399 price its a bargain for the new Faroudja-based models. The better models are discontinued so you would have to pay higher prices for a unsure used model from ebay and miss a few features, so I am thinking this is a better alternative - I have 30 days no questions-asked return policy from Tweeter to decide!
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ThumperBoy
Some of the new features with the newer Faroudja chipset that this model and the new Denon 910/1200 models have compared to the older models include zooming (x1.3,x2,x4) and video adjustment (sharpness, color, tint, digital MPEG artifact and noise reduction). The Mitsubishi (but not the Denon) also supports a mode for 16:9 displays where 4:3 video titles can display in proper aspect ratio in window-box format instead of having to manually selecting such a mode on the TV. I verified this works well. For non-anamorphic widescreen titles they are output widescreen and the display mode in the TV must still be altered for them compared to FULL mode on anamorphic titles - as on most other DVD players.
This is what I have been waiting for, a DCDi player that window-boxes. Too bad it seems the video performance may not be up to par with the RP91/RP82/XP30/XP50/CP72/1600. Perhaps I'll pick one up at tweet tonight and check it out.
 

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I think the video performance is pretty damn close once its tweaked and the extra featurs kind of make up for it plus the lower price! It certainly is better than all other non-DCDi players. Nothing will probably completely match the video quality of the older DCDi models, but they lack many features however and are difficult to buy - only used on ebay at too high prices and no warranty. I just want to know some suggested titles to check for any chroma bug or flicker bug to look for, thats the only thing left for me to check now.
 

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What to you guys mean by ,"a DCDi player that window-boxes"



Does that mean less black bars on my new Sony 65" even on anomographic (spelling?) correct DVDs?


Does this feature help make it better than a Denon 1600?
 

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That feature is for titles that are 4:3 aspect ratio (not widescreen). Many documentaries/special features on DVDs as well as TV show episodes on DVD are in 4:3 AR only. When you display such a title on a widescreen HDTV with players like the Denon 1600 it will be stretched horizontally for the 16:9 display so people look short and fat. If your TV supports a 4:3 windowbox mode (usually adds gray bars on the sides) you can manually switch to that mode on such titles, but some TVs lock in FULL mode in progressive mode or its just a pain to switch manually back and forth. With an automatic 4:3 windowbox feature in the DVD player this operation is done in the DVD player automatically only when needed. The JVC and the new Mitsubishi DD-9040 DVD models have this feature, the Denons for whatever reason don't have it, neither do the older Panasonics.
 

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Evaluated the 8040 last night...it is going back today.


It definitely has high frequency rolloff, and I don't recommend increasing the sharpness setting to compensate...it produces noticeable ringing.


The high frequency rolloff is comparable to my Malata 996, yet the Malata picture is often better as the 8040 has slightly more ringing at the default settings.


The 8040 also exhibited a strange blocking in the dark area of the overscan bounce test pattern. I did not test with any other material...this was a show stopper for me.


Curiously, the 8040 has no options for deinterlacing mode. Seemed to perform decently. This player shines with video based material like ANIME and sports DVDs (Michael Jordan collection looked great) that need to be 4x3 windowboxed.


If you need a player to deinterlace and windowbox...this is the player for you. Some older sets (like my Mits) do a poor job deinterlacing and even windowboxing or simply lock in full mode with progressive input. I have decided to deal with poor deinterlacing or watch such content on interlaced input to my Hitachi for deinterlacing.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Alexander
The 8040 also exhibited a strange blocking in the dark area of the overscan bounce test pattern. I did not test with any other material...this was a show stopper for me.

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Alexander
It definitely has high frequency rolloff, and I don't recommend increasing the sharpness setting to compensate...it produces noticeable ringing.
Sharpness +0
 

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for non-anamorphic/LBX titles, can you windowbox then zoom 1.3x to simulate an anamorphic image for sets that lock in full with 480p inputs?


I don't know why there isn't any player that does this correctly and has good video deinterlacing
 
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