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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,


I'm much interested in the new FE CenterStage1 however I have two major doubts :


1] is it compatible with RGBS sources? Here in Europe it

happens we have RGBS output from satellite decoders

and DVD players. Whereas we can get DVD players with

Component output it's totally impossible to find satellite decoders with Component output here. So we have

to use the ever good RGB with separated composite sync

(RGBS, 4 cables) output to get the highest quality from

them. VIGATEC produces a 480p de-interlacer with RGBS input (4 RCA) BUT it is very expensive and it is NOT a

scaler. I need a scaler. So, does the CS1 have RGBS

inputs?


2] considering what I read the CS1 still features some bad

bugs. Somethhing like it doesn't save the picture size

switching from an input to another (? I cannot believe that) and other problems : is it getting better? When

will an *almost* trouble-free CS1 be available?


Thank you very much for your help,

napp
 

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Well, it's only been out a week, Napp, so it may take a while longer. I understand that there IS an update for the system software on the way.


In my case, running XGA rez at 60Hz, I'm not experiencing any bugs with interlaced component, svideo and composite inputs.


If you go to their site, you can read through the manual, posted online as a PDF file:

www.focusenhancements.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for your reply.


I did not know the CS-1 was released just a week ago but

this is not an excuse to release such a product with

evident firmware problems.


Well, apart from that, I read the tech specs of the CS-1

and I cannot understand if it accepts RGBS interlaced signal from our european EuroSCART based sources.


We simply have four cables carrying R-G-B-CompositeSync

to connect : will the CS-1 accept them?

It ought to be so.


There're millions of RGBS devices in our market and an

american producer willing to hit the global market can't

forget that.


The tech specs report an interlaced YPbPr or RGB input.

This's not accurate : what version of RGB are they talking

about? YPbPr-Component has three connectors while RGBS

needs four : where's the fourth? Moreover there's not a

detailed picture of the back panel of the CS-1 : the one

in the PDF specs file is way too small to see anything.

A visible-readable picture would have been enough to

reply my question.


Thank you for your help!


napp
 

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It has a VGA input, so If you get a VGA breakout cable with a female VGA on one end and -4 or 5 RGB on the other I believe your RGB input would work. Then get a VGA breakout cable with a male VGA on one end and 4 or 5 RGB for your RGB out from CS-1 back to your system.
 

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Socio,


Basically, your idea is useless because the satellite source would not be scaled but passed through unchanged. It would be simpler to use a regular SCART cable (& you save a couple thousand dollars).


I can attest to the fact that US manufacturers often disregard RGBs (Sync on Green & Sync on Composite) although Europe is a big market.


Extron and Vigatec are the main mid-end producers which do support RGBs on a regular and consistant basis.


I, myself, have a satellite service that allows SVideo or RGBs. Since I have several things running on SVideo, I found it easier to settle with SVideo (although RGBs has a higher quality image and is equivalent to component).


One product that's peaking our interest is John Simm's SCART -> SVideo and SCART->Component. Personally, I'd like to see a single unit with several output (distribution amp too). i.e., a unit that takes in RGBs and transcodes to a couple of SVideo outputs and a component output...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
OK, thanks Ofer.


It's clear now. Even the latest american processor disregards the european RGBS. Sounds good.


85% of DVD players and 100% Satellite digital decoders here

in Europe output RGBS, which has all the quality of Component (even superior than Component according to someone's A/B tests) but it's NOT Component.


It's conceptually frightening to downgrade to S-Video or even Composite from RGBS to use a processor like the CS-1 in my european video system.


I now see two possibilities :


- an RGBS to Component transcoder (I refuse the idea of the RGBS to S-Video converter). How much is it and how

much does it affect picture quality (it surely does)?


- a scaler with RGBS inputs. Does Extron use *at least* the Sil504 in their scalers? VIGATEC is simply overpricing their products in my opinion and it's out of my choice.


I'm sure I'd have liked the CS-1 but it misses RGBS and

shows FE knows really little of what happens outside the

american limits.


bye, napp
 

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There is an option in the onscreen menu that allows for sync on green on and off , if thats what you are refering.
 

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talk to John Sim (Symanski on this forum) and ask him.


I believe they're beta testing the SCART->component transcoder now.


BTW, the Vigatec FX2 has RGBs (Videon's Omega-1 might have it too, not sure). Although it's a line doubler, it might work out for you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Socio
There is an option in the onscreen menu that allows for sync on green on and off , if thats what you are refering.
No Socio, RGB with Sync on Green (RGsB) is another standard.


Here we have RGBS which is a "simplified" RGBHV(VGA) in interlaced mode with one composite sync (in place of horizontal and vertical sync) out of our DVD players and digital sat decoders. This signal could be sent through four RCA connectors but we actually use a special 21pin connector

named EuroSCART. Every video sources and TV sets here in Europe have SCART sockets. However it's simple to get a SCART-to-4RCA cable to connect our sources to videoprojectors, monitors, processors... compatible with this signal. An example is the DLP HT-series by Sim2 (up to the great HT300HD) which features 4 RCA connectors for both Component-YPbPr (you use three of them) and RGBS (you use all of them). Such dual YPbPr-RGBS connectivity is NOT technically difficult. It appears more difficult to let many american producers understand that! Not considering RGBS rules in the whole Europe they lose many, many customers here.


One more example after the FE CS-1? Ofer talked about the Videon's Omega One (a de-interlacer) : it does NOT have RGBS! Its european clone VIGATEC FX2 (much more expensive, as far as I know) does have an RGBS input...


Do you maybe know the EXTRON DDS 402? How is it considered? It has only Component + RGBS inputs, no S-Video and no Composite but I wouldn't care. Price and performance balance is important and I'd like to know more about it.

Here's a PDF file :
http://www.extron.com/download/files...DDS402ebro.pdf


I'll also contact John Sim about the RGBS to Component transcoder.


Thanks,

napp
 

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Napp,


Actually, the sync is the actual same sync as in the composite sync. The SCART connector passes a composite video and the H/V syncs derive from it.


The SCART standard defines three types of connections - composite only (in and out with audio in and out), RGBs (in and out, along with stereo in and out) and Svideo (in and out, along with stereo in and out).


Some satellite receivers can produce SVideo within the scart connector, so all you need is a SCART->SVideo converter (which I am using, for example). The quality drop is not insignificant, but it does save alot of effort sometimes...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by oferlaor
Napp,


Actually, the sync is the actual same sync as in the composite sync. The SCART connector passes a composite video and the H/V syncs derive from it.


The SCART standard defines three types of connections - composite only (in and out with audio in and out), RGBs (in and out, along with stereo in and out) and Svideo (in and out, along with stereo in and out).


Some satellite receivers can produce SVideo within the scart connector, so all you need is a SCART->SVideo converter (which I am using, for example). The quality drop is not insignificant, but it does save alot of effort sometimes...


Yes, a few sat decoders have S-Video. The most famous are Humax 5xxx series and the very good ASTON Xena 2000 from France. However, having tested them, I always noticed the big quality advantage of the RGBS output.


Anyway, talking about EXTRON the most interesting model is the DVS 204 :
http://www.extron.com/download/files...04RevBebro.pdf

and not the one I mentioned before. I've strated to read reviews and impression about it since it seems to do everything (from de-interlacing to scaling with RGBS input) at a very decent price. Do you know it?


Thanks,

napp
 

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folks,


it is even worse, the SCART connector does not carry RGBS it carries

RGB with composite Video as the sync signal.

The VIGATEC products accept this signal directly....

So far we are alone with this input option, did no hear from any

other scaler or doubler manufacturer so far, correct me if I am wrong...:)
 

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We are researching this now. I will report back to you once I have more information.
 

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The Extron DVS204 will accept this signal. It was designed to be compatible with SCART.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by spatz
folks,


it is even worse, the SCART connector does not carry RGBS it carries

RGB with composite Video as the sync signal.

The VIGATEC products accept this signal directly....

So far we are alone with this input option, did no hear from any

other scaler or doubler manufacturer so far, correct me if I am wrong...:)


Spatz, do you have any time to spend explaining what the difference is between and ? I thought they were the same :-/


So, if a processor is spec'd to accept RGBS via a VGA connector (as the EXTRON DVS 204 does) it's not sure it will accept RGB With Composite Sync signal from a SCART source


Thank you for your help,

napp
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Serlin
The Extron DVS204 will accept this signal. It was designed to be compatible with SCART.
SERLIN,


many thanks to you for this info with all our european heart.


napp
 

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No problem. I love Europe!


A little clarification - the Extron unit will accept: RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB as pass-throughs and will scale RGBcvS on the 15HD input.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by FE
We are researching this now. I will report back to you once I have more information.


FE / Shaun,


happy to see you in this thread.


This's simply a serious matter.


Here in Europe we have EuroSCART output connectors in every video source. We're talking about millions of units equipped with EuroSCART. You can read anything is necessary about the SCART interface in this website :
http://www.sesworld.com/info/scart.html


As you can see it's a 21pin connector which carries Composite Video, S-Video up to RGB With Composite Sync + other control signals of minor importance for the TV set-VideoSource interaction.


RGB With Composite Sync is the signal that every DVD Player and Digital Satellite Decoder thought for the european market outputs to achieve the best picture quality. Every TV-set sold in Europe, as well as videoprojectors and plasma displays with an external input module, have at least one EuroSCART receptacle and are compatible with RGB With Composite Sync. Only a terribly small percentage of european users has a YPbPr-Component output in their DVD players whereas absolutely none can say to have a YPbPr output in his/her digital satellite decoder.


I'm not technically skilled enough to explain you the differences between our RGB With Composite Sync and your YPbPr-Component, but someone says the first looks better than the second. However I don't know if RGB With Composite Sync can carry progressive signals since I've never heard of a EuroSCART-based device outputting progressive signal through this connector (but it shouldn't be impossible to do).


About video processors

----------------------

Acquired millions of europeans have DVD players (also very high quality stuff) and Digital Satellite Decoders which output INTERLACED RGB With Composite Sync through a EuroSCART connector, it's evident some of them will strongly want to :

- send full quality RGB With Composite Sync to a

de-interlacer/scaler

- not to be obliged to downgrade the source-processor

link to S-Video or even Composite (most digital sat

decoders have only RGB With Composite Sync and Composite

Video with no S-Video) BECAUSE good processors like the

CenterStage 1 does NOT have a SCART-RGB With Composite

Sync compatible input.


Personally I prefer to stick with interlaced RGB With Composite Sync directly to my Sim2 HT250 DLP videoprojector (being european-based they thought to put 4 RCA for RGB+Sync) other than buying a processor which has only S-Video and Composite Video inputs suitable for my european sources. You'd do the same.


Europeans do need RGB With Composite Sync inputs on scalers.


We praise Vigatec and EXTRON for including compatibility to such input signal in their products.


Thanks,

napp
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Serlin
No problem. I love Europe!


A little clarification - the Extron unit will accept: RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB as pass-throughs and will scale RGBcvS on the 15HD input.
Serlin,


do you mean the DVS 204 won't scale RGB With Composite Sync signal coming from a SCART source (by using a SCART->VGA cable for example)? Only pass-through for it? :-/


I'm a little bit confused now : what is RGBcvS?


Hopefully it's what it's needed here.


Thank you,

napp
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by napp




FE / Shaun,


happy to see you in this thread.


This's simply a serious matter.


Here in Europe we have EuroSCART output connectors in every video source. We're talking about millions of units equipped with EuroSCART. You can read anything is necessary about the SCART interface in this website :
http://www.sesworld.com/info/scart.html


As you can see it's a 21pin connector which carries Composite Video, S-Video up to RGB With Composite Sync + other control signals of minor importance for the TV set-VideoSource interaction.


napp
I should have been more clear, we know what SCART is, infact we have products that have SCART. We are looking into how to implement this in the CS-1 for our European customers. In any case I should have more info in a week or so.
 
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