[Dirk Pajonk]

Have you verified that your meter profile is within NIST tolerance? For example, using this tool, with results evaluated like in this post?

No i didn't verified with this tool. I didn't know it before. I will test it next week. But i thougt calman tells me if the profile is correct?

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

As suggested above, you must first check the meter profile was successfully within tolerance. If you used Bondar (and did it correctly) it "should" be very accurately profiled. If it isn't then there is something wrong.

I Have done it this way. But for me the pictur looks to cool.

If the profile was successful and you whites look "off white" then it is due to metameric failure and you will require an alternate white point. As I said before, the one you mentioned is not really suitable for a 10nm Spectro such as the i1 Pro meters. If the two white points mentioned above do not look correct to you either, then you will need to find your own, and it is relatively simple to do once you understand the process.

What is metameric failure?

Perceptual Colour Matching

Using LightSpace CMS to match displays that use Different Illumination Technologies

www.lightspace.lightillusion.com

If you don't have access to a Plasma or CRT display, you can use pretty much any standard gamut display that does not have narrow primaries and it will most likely give a better result "for your eyes". Even a standard notebook display can work (not all notebooks though, mine has an absolutely [email protected] display).

Ok i understand. I have to find my own whitepoiunt. Sounds very logical.
1. I should find a reference screen which whitepoint i like.
2. then i set my new display manually at 90% IRE like my reference screen
3. After that i measure my whitepoint which i manually set on my new screen and take this coordinates as my new whitepoint.

Wow, sounds great. But it can be a neverending story and at the end alldepends on my eyes and not as it should be from a professional calibration.

Would you think i should get a professional calibrator to check if my i pro3 and the profiled idisplay pro are in line with the real professional spectrometer from a professional?

 

[liberator72]

Ok i understand. I have to find my own whitepoiunt. Sounds very logical.
1. I should find a reference screen which whitepoint i like.
2. then i set my new display manually at 90% IRE like my reference screen
3. After that i measure my whitepoint which i manually set on my new screen and take this coordinates as my new whitepoint.

Correct

Would you think i should get a professional calibrator to check if my i pro3 and the profiled idisplay pro are in line with the real professional spectrometer from a professional?

That's entirely up to you. But if you go down that route, what was the purpose of getting your own Spectro? And if you are going to hire a Professional to just check the meter, then you may as well just either get him to either profile your meter to his, or the do the entire calibration for you with his reference gear making your meters redundant.

This is all part of the fun (or frustration depending on how you look at it) of learning calibration. Learning to overcome the hurdles you bump into at every single turn.

If I were you (and I have been in this position and this is exactly what I did).....I would find a display that has a standard gamut (e.g. not wider than Rec709) and calibrate that to D65. Here is an example of a BenQ monitors Spectral scan that has near perfect 100% Rec709 coverage

White is the solid colour, whereas the wireframe is the Primaries. White matches the sum of RGB almost exactly, and so this monitor could be potentially be used for perceptual matching

As you can see, with WRGB OLED, White does not equal RGB, and that is why some people need an alternate white point.

Before you do all this though, you need to perfect your meter profiling process as described above, ensuring you can create a valid match between the two, otherwise all this becomes redundant.

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

Correct



That's entirely up to you. But if you go down that route, what was the purpose of getting your own Spectro? And if you are going to hire a Professional to just check the meter, then you may as well just either get him to either profile your meter to his, or the do the entire calibration for you with his reference gear making your meters redundant.

This is all part of the fun (or frustration depending on how you look at it) of learning calibration. Learning to overcome the hurdles you bump into at every single turn.

If I were you (and I have been in this position and this is exactly what I did).....I would find a display that has a standard gamut (e.g. not wider than Rec709) and calibrate that to D65. Here is an example of a BenQ monitors Spectral scan that has near perfect 100% Rec709 coverage

View attachment 3049602

White is the solid colour, whereas the wireframe is the Primaries. White matches the sum of RGB almost exactly, and so this monitor could be potentially be used for perceptual matching

View attachment 3049607

As you can see, with WRGB OLED, White does not equal RGB, and that is why some people need an alternate white point.

Before you do all this though, you need to perfect your meter profiling process as described above, ensuring you can create a valid match between the two, otherwise all this becomes redundant.

I've got an eizo monitor which color looks good for me.
but when i go the perceptual way i don't need to profile my i1Displaypro anymore. Because i set the the whitepoint manually on my new Screen an d measure this whitepoint. So thereis no matter if it's profiled or not because it takes my own whitepoint???

 

[mrtickleuk]

No i didn't verified with this tool. I didn't know it before. I will test it next week. But i thougt calman tells me if the profile is correct?

No. You have to do all of the checking and verification yourself, by hand with the excellent tool - that's a very nice link, @thoth - or by doing 12 separate maths calculations yourself with mental arithmetic.

In the age of computers, forcing the user to do those 12 calculations yourself is utterly insane, and that is why I asked for Calman to actually do the calculations. That was some time ago, but nothing has changed as of now. I found it absolutely unbelievable that Calman didn't do it, it is a mature product, not a new product.

Calman does NOT tell you whether your profile is within tolerances or not. It gives you a screen to say "look at these numbers, and do the calculations". Then, you have to check and do all the calculations yourself! Even though you're looking at a screen in a piece of computer software!

 

[liberator72]

I've got an eizo monitor which color looks good for me.
but when i go the perceptual way i don't need to profile my i1Displaypro anymore. Because i set the the whitepoint manually on my new Screen an d measure this whitepoint. So thereis no matter if it's profiled or not because it takes my own whitepoint???

You still have to probe match on the OLED after you have perceptually matched a new white point. The only difference is you need to modify the white point for your colour space target (e.g. Rec709 with different coordinates for white).

If you don’t probe match, you meter (i1d3) will still be inaccurate. You just literally modified the white point, nothing else.

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

delete

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

You still have to probe match on the OLED after you have perceptually matched a new white point. The only difference is you need to modify the white point for your colour space target (e.g. Rec709 with different coordinates for white).

If you don’t probe match, you meter (i1d3) will still be inaccurate. You just literally modified the white point, nothing else.

But it uses my own whitepoint as reference?

 

[liberator72]

But it uses my own whitepoint as reference?

It really isn't complicated.

1. Calibrate reference display (monitor) to D65 using the Spectro
2. Visually adjust WRGB OLED display to match using the RGB controls
3. Measure and record the resulting white patch displayed on the OLED display
4. In whatever software you are using, modify the colour space target white point only with the new coordinates you just measured (e.g Rec709 for SDR)
5. Create meter profile (Bodner) on the WRGB OLED
6. Calibrate with the new modified colour space target containing the new white point
7. You can then use that same white point for HDR/DV if you so wish

It is all in the link I previously provided. I suggest reading it a few times to fully understand the procedure before commencing. Here it is once again for convenience

Perceptual Colour Matching

Using LightSpace CMS to match displays that use Different Illumination Technologies

www.lightspace.lightillusion.com

 

[ConnecTEDDD]

Ok, yesterday i profiled my i1Display Pro Plus with the display pro 3! I've done it by full contact before you answerd. So maybe I'll have to do it again.
But what makes me anoying is that everybody is doing full contact??? But logical a distance would be better to measure more pixels because of screen uniformity.

We need the panel to not transfer heat from the panel surface to the meter, as it will increase the S/N ratio.

The meter needs to have a stable temperature during the measurements.
If you have just a small distance from the panel for the meter to not touch the panel, then it's OK.

Heaver meters, like i1PROs, when you hang them, they force some pressure to the panel,

But what was really interessting was the differences betwenn the methods. It looks like the i1display pro, without a profile, in xyz is more acurate than with the fsi edr.
All measurements werde done in full contact expect 1b.

Now i know why the reds arer out of space. The TV has a bug. Sometimes I#ll have to swi´tch the colorgamut from auto to any other option and back. Than rec709 is activated and the reds are all in.


So what is better?
Tyler says in his Bodner Profiling Method tu use xyz.
Would you say to profile the i1Displaypro with fsi.edr would be better?
Murideo says it doesn't matter because the profile overrides the edr values.

Since you have i1Display PRO and i1PRO3, use RAW XYZ and Bodner method for meter profiling.

When you have a Spectro, you don't want the meter to have selected any additional spectral correction table active when you perform the meter correction procedure.

RAW XYZ in CalMAN means that no additional EDR file is loaded; only the factory meter calibration is loaded.

(It's a mistake my CalMAN that this mode is called RAW as it's not RAW)

RAW means without factory calibration, but the meter can't provide that mode)

When you select RAW, the meter is loading a Generic Near-CMF table, which is the factory calibration.

The meter can't provide RAW measurements, just its wrong technical explanation from CalMAN.

The SDK of X-Rite explains all that, so the factory calibration is called Generic CMF in LightSpace/ColourSpace.

 

[ConnecTEDDD]

I've got an eizo monitor which color looks good for me.
but when i go the perceptual way i don't need to profile my i1Displaypro anymore. Because i set the the whitepoint manually on my new Screen an d measure this whitepoint. So thereis no matter if it's profiled or not because it takes my own whitepoint???

Profile any display to have its own meter proofing correction when you have colorimeter and Spectro.

Then use the alternative white point to calibrate the new screen.

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

delete

 

[mrtickleuk]

Hello,

can anyone help me and check if this ok?

We already went all through this, the other day. thoth give you a direct link to the method, from his post here Feedback on HCFR LG C8 OLED SDR Calibration .
that is everything you need. You just have to do the maths yourself, with a calculator, like I explained before. The calculations that you have to do yourself are explained in the link from thoth's post.
I know this because it was one of my old posts he linked to
HTH

 

[ConnecTEDDD]

delete

Do you have any active 1D or 3D LUT table loaded to your TV, which you perform meter correction process?

If you have performed manual calibration, you have to reset the picture mode for not having active any Grayscale/CMS adjustment.

Check the TV for not having any active enhancements or power, sensor, or color-related function.

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

Do you have any active 1D or 3D LUT table loaded to your TV, which you perform meter correction process?

If you have performed manual calibration, you have to reset the picture mode for not having active any Grayscale/CMS adjustment.

Check the TV for not having any active enhancements or power, sensor, or color-related function.

Sorry my fault. I have forgotten to delete the picture...
this profiling went wrong.
Now it's ok. Thanks Ted

 

[Topdaddy2020]

im having so many issues getting my gamma line to line up the issues are with 75-95% keep rising and dropping on there own an its hard to adjust the gamma when thats happing also 95% goes very high above 2.3 - 2.4 gamma all time really dont understand any help ?

 

[Dirk Pajonk]

im having so many issues getting my gamma line to line up the issues are with 75-95% keep rising and dropping on there own an its hard to adjust the gamma when thats happing also 95% goes very high above 2.3 - 2.4 gamma all time really dont understand any help ?

Manual or Autocal?
Reset your profiles!
When did Autocal reset the TV

Then set the TV to ISF Dark all enhancers off, colorgamut extended, gamma 2.2. Then measure the gammaramp.

 

[Topdaddy2020]

manual cal in hcfr im always getting the issue no matter what i dont the top end is always spiking on its ownnot sure whyits like as if the target measures are not stable and giving me issues

 

[Rolls-Royce]

As I replied to you in an earlier thread:
It isn't unusual at all for the upper end of the gray scale to be a little off, especially 90-95%. Reading 100% multiple times during the series can cause this, as gamma targets for each point are calculated from the measured luminance at 100%. Since meters and displays both vary continuously a small bit from reading to reading, checking 100% multiple times will vary the gamma targets as well. Also, the way the gamma formula works, the closer to 100% you go, the bigger the difference those same tiny changes make. If you can, look at the actual luminance for 95% and compare it to the luminance target for that level. You'll probably find that they are very close. But normal display controls don't give you fine enough control to correct it, so there's really nothing you can do.

 

[Theo0984]

Hello everyone,

first, thanks @ all for your work!

I´ve a 65C9, calibrating with hcfr and a colourmunki display since 2 years. I´ve got a harmony remote and doing some work in the service menu for a good white balance.
My questions are:
I´m using the cool preset as explained for sdr content, from which source i should show the test pattern, because there is a difference when showing test pattern by internal mediaplayer or by dvb-s2 box or laptop?!

After sm white balance calibration, i would calibrate 22 point for every source (copy settings from internal mediaplayer to netlix and prime video?), is that right?

PS: Do the target luminance in the 22 point 100 IRE menu have any effect? If, which target (think 130 ist standard) i should use?

Thanks a lot, have a nice weekend and stay healthy!