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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I've spent the last couple days reading through the threads on laminate here but I still have a few specific questions that I couldn't quite find the answers for.


From what I've read, more than one person has said the DW comes surprisingly close to something like the Studiotek 130, with neutral color performance and close to 1.3 gain. This sounds perfect for me.


I haven't seen much about black levels, though. I assume that with a white screen with some gain, they will be elevated?


The situation is that I am looking to upgrade from my current blackout cloth. I'm using a Mits 4000 on a 2.35 BOC screen that is about 4.5' tall by 10.5' wide or thereabouts (can't remember the exact measurements, but the width is the equivalent of a 139" diagonal 16:9 screen, I remember that much). So with a screen that big, the gain of the DW would be extremely welcome; but since blacks are already the weakness of the 4000, will I notice them being even worse on the DW? And with this projector at this screen size, will hotspotting potentially be an issue?


I watch movies with no ambient light. Sporting events and sitcoms or that kind of thing, I often have some ambient light, but movies are the #1 priority.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I got the 8x10 sample. Brightness on white and light areas is dramatically better than on the BOC. Blacks are elevated, which is unfortunate, but perceptibly it seems to be to a much lesser degree than the bright areas. I'm a little worried about hotspotting and glare, which I can't really determine from a small square -- the difference in brightness on white areas like snow is so huge between the DW and the BOC that I think it might be more glare/hotspot than just regular increased gain.


Also considering paint, although I'd like to keep it as simple as possible (and under $150 total). That Glidden or even the paint mentioned in the Projectorcentral article sound like they might fit my needs without needing to buy a bunch of equipment.


My screen is about 54" x 127" or thereabouts, CIH (using zoom). I may reduce the screen size a bit and keep it to no more than 10' wide. Projector like I said is Mits HC4000, ceiling mounted about 14' away from screen (zoom maxed out for 2.35). I watch movies in a basement with all lights off, with dark navy fabric on the wall around the screen and coming out on the walls and ceiling another 6ft or so.


Making movies look as good as possible is my focus. Don't need a particularly wide viewing angle (my girlfriend and I on the couch typically), and do not want to compromise on ideal movie performance in favor of better ambient light performance.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Basically...WA-DW is not as desirable a substrate as it's often made out to be. Nope...it's simply a "Hang & Shoot" material, and not even that really, as it demands that a very good frame be built. I can tell you this, if you spend for the right wood and supportive Frame Brackets the Frame demands, a hanging system, and the right paint and a "best case" method to apply it (spraying)...and a decent Trim job, there is NO possible way you'll come in under $150.00 . More like $225.00 and a lot more work than you realize.


Shoot, even without the paint / sprayer that isn't gonna happen.


You also must worry about breakage, and hot spotting (...and it will if you have a bright PJ that isn't mounted correctly...) Wilson Art was a viable choice when low lumen PJs were the norm, and even then many had issues with glare and a lessening of Black levels.


BOC comes in at 0.85 gain. The WA-DW at 1.2


That is indeed a significant amount, but as you have correctly surmised, that difference us due to the laminate having a slight sheen..


You wanna keep to your budget? Consider 3mm Sintra, applied directly to the wall with a thin, flexible adhesive, painted with a correct paint, and trimmed with Black Velvet wrapped MDF Base Trim.


I'd estimate you'll spend about $175.00, including a "No-name" HVLP sprayer
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks. I'll probably just stick with the BOC. From reading a million threads over the last week, there is nothing that sounds like it will be a significant enough improvement across the board to justify the cost, especially since ambient light performance is a non-issue for me.
Quote:
hot spotting (...and it will if you have a bright PJ that isn't mounted correctly...)

I don't think the Mits 4000 is particularly bright, especially in low mode at an image size of 139" diagonally.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Also, to be clear, I didn't mean to use DW as a substrate. I was going to use it as the screen either on the wooden frame my BOC is currently on, or I've read of others mounting it directly to the wall with mirror clips and maybe some caulk.


If I were painting, I would use something cheaper, or possibly the wall itself (although I think it's in rough shape). I've also read of people painting on the BOC itself.
 

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Curt, it really depends on your priorities, but I considered DW a huge improvement over BOC. And that was when I was still using an old Infocus X1, which would be poor in contrast and black level relative to your 4000. You may place more emphasis on black level than I do or we interpret the term in different ways. I don't recall noticing a change in black levels when I switched, but the increased brightness and apparent contrast were major. I say "apparent" b/c relative bright/dark levels should stay the same with the increase in gain, but I certainly perceived the change as an increase in contrast as well.


A quick look at ProjectorReviews shows Art considered the 4000 a fairly bright projector. The review also says the 4000 has a fairly steep offset angle, much like my old X1 and current Planar 7060, which should eliminate any concern with hotspotting. I don't have any hotspots with the 7060 and it checked in with just a bit more lumen output in best mode according to Art's measurements (592 vs. 550).


-Brent
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Interesting, Brent. Thanks for the info.


One thing I tried was my old Parkland Plastics screen against my current BOC screen. Difference was barely noticeable at all. I then put the DW on the Parkland and it vanished completely, no difference whatsoever that I could see. I'm just hesitant to spend the time and money to get a DW screen put up just to discover there's no appreciable difference (when not directly A/Bing) or even that there are noticeable negatives. Lowes shows $120-145, not including tax.


Offset on the HC4000 is significant I guess; my lens is about 15" above the top of the screen if I recall correctly.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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IMO....for what that may or not be worth....WA-DW has never been worth the price or the needed installation criteria it presents. ONLY when a larger than normal Substrate with a ultra smooth surface is needed, and one does not want to deal with BOC Screen construction issues, is the very largest sheets of WA-DW desirable.


....and even then, I'd paint on 'em to make them wholly desirable and effective.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
The appeal of the DW for me was the increased gain, since my picture is so (relatively) dim. I think most or all of the posts I've since found from people switching said it was a significant improvement over BOC (e.g. Brent's above); I don't recall if I've seen anyone say they saw a disappointing degradation of black levels. Most talk about the increased brightness and perceived contrast, which sounded good to me.


In any case, the impression I'm getting overall is that the most accurate answer to the question "is there a screen that will be an across the board improvement over BOC" is "no -- you have to choose between a brighter image with worse blacks, or a dimmer image with better blacks". Disappointing!
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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yes...but just the same, the desire for needed gain was usually a case of under-lumen powered PJs needing a boost. Anything even close to being sufficient in light output usually showed up the WA- DW's sheen...which BTW is/was the only reason it had any gain. In fact, you can date the lack of interest to the availability of 1600 lumen+ PJs about 3 years ago.


I myself have read plenty about the Black levels either suffering or being lessened, mostly because of two reasons:


1. The white surface could only show whatever contrast the source could output. (...a reason WA-Fashion Gray was often sought after...but it had sheen characteristics as well...)

2. The White surface would always respond unfavorably to "ANY" degree of ambient light or returning "reflected Projected light".


Bluntly put....the curtailing of posts about WA-DW isn't due to malcontents like me who might think / feel think it's inappropriate to consider due to less demanding substrates....it because people are getting more education and choices...and just as bluntly put....the rise in popularity of Sintra and similar Expanded PVC Foam Boards simply makes for a much easier and every bit or more viable choice.


All that being said....for certain sure, those with CRT PJs and all those with 720p PJs with under 1000 lumens did...and probably will rightly continue to swear by WA-DW screens. And at me probably.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well, my HC4000 in low mode with 1000 hours on it on an 11ft wide screen certainly feels like it has under-powered lumens -- right around 560 according to ProjectorCentral and ProjectorReviews in Cinema mode, then drop that again with the low lamp to around 425 -- pretty anemic for the equivalent of a 139" screen.


Sintra in 5x10 is around $100, but I'm not sure of shipping costs. Would unpainted Sintra be any better than BOC (or spandex)?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard  /t/1420966/few-questions-about-wilsonart-dw#post_22289975


Well, my HC4000 in low mode with 1000 hours on it on an 11ft wide screen certainly feels like it has under-powered lumens -- right around 560 according to ProjectorCentral and ProjectorReviews in Cinema mode, then drop that again with the low lamp to around 425 -- pretty anemic for the equivalent of a 139" screen.

Sintra in 5x10 is around $100, but I'm not sure of shipping costs. Would unpainted Sintra be any better than BOC (or spandex)?

Well certainly that falls within the "I need gain' dept. But will you always need such? Better to make up a Screen that can service both current and future needs, I'm a'thinnin;.


Sintra also has a slight sheen, but that might not be something undesirable for the present. Also, a firm rubbing with a cotton Cloth will tend to reduce the sheen. The best thing about the Sintra in your case could very well be ability to later upgrade the surface with a effective DIY paint solution, one morei deally suited for your inevitable PJ upgrade.


Spandex isn't for you because it will attenuate your reflected light because of absorptive "pass through".


BOC is and has been always under 1.0 gain (.85 to be exact) and therein also isn't what you want for such a large Screen.



Now...I know you know that we know exactly how to provide all the useful gain you'd need, and do so by simply spray applying one of a few selected DIY Paints to Sintra. The question is....do you feel lucky? Well.......do ya?
 

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If you are going to use the WA then I would NOT use a frame -unless you use a hardwood frame. I used a softwood frame and this is what happens when you glue the laminate to it and then the humidity levels change over the seasons...


If I were to do it again I would bond it to a backer board like MDF or something.
 

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Chris,


What grade WA-DW was that you used? The thinnest variety?


That was/is the worst case of buckling I've ever seen.



Absolutely, any Screen Frame one makes needs to be made from Kiln Dried Poplar or Maple. But longish sticks of those types of wood are not cheap, especially in a 1" x 4" and up sizes. Backer Boards (6mm Foam Board is the best and comes in 5' x 10' sizes) are a better solution, but they require that a Contact Adhesive be evenly spread across the entire surface (...best to use a "re-positional" type fur sure...)


Cripes...a well made WA-DW screen isn't an inexpensive option by any strecth of reasoning, and even the best still carry more risks that is desirable, and just might need painting onto in the long run anyway.


I still maintain that Sintra, and similar products are the best value+performance oriented option. And if one is limited to 100" diagonal or less, Thrifty White Hardboard or similar Melamine-coated sheets in 4' x 8' size are even better options considering the range between $12.00 and $25.00, and little if any in the way of a supportive Frame. Just Trim.


Of course, the availability of these various products where one lives, as well as the ability to get more (...or less...) involved into a DIY project will weigh heavily in any decision making process. As in most such cases, if a budget is scrimped on, the chance of having a disappointing experience rises. But spending excessively isn't any better of an answer...and to me, if one weighs the expense and risk of some applications against the lessor levels of both that other DIY apps provide, it all boils down to who really studied, listened to "LOTS" of sage advice before jumping off, and followed the best of such advice to a "T",.... and those who simply read something, jumped into a choice they were really not ready to attempt or informed enough about to try, The first one nails down a great project....the other usually just gets hammered.


Worse still, sometimes people unfortunately get led astray by canvassing for too much information from too many sources...some decidedly biased.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Painting is not out of the question for me.. The main hesitation there is the expense of the equipment plus paint with nothing approaching certainty of the results. Which mix would you recommend and what would its advantages be over BOC? Do you or anyone here have some painted samples I can check out in my room?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard  /t/1420966/few-questions-about-wilsonart-dw#post_22292554


Painting is not out of the question for me.. The main hesitation there is the expense of the equipment plus paint with nothing approaching certainty of the results. Which mix would you recommend and what would its advantages be over BOC? Do you or anyone here have some painted samples I can check out in my room?

I would not even venture to say anything at all like "nothing approaching certainty" unless you restrict such a thing to your own determination, not to those who have both the experience and confidence to state otherwise. There is no way you would be given a course of action to take that would be considered to be anything but the correct path to take to satisfaction. How closely one follows that path is really what' determines the degree of "certainty. And you gotta realize, even accepting a Screen Mfg's claims and buying into supposed "certain results" in no way assures one that such will actually occur. Over on "Screens" the Board is littered with sordid tales of dissatisfaction....but granted, a good deal of such has to do with mismatches of PJs with Screen choices. It still amply illustrates the point that one has to educate himself, or rest in the arms of his fellow peer's own ad-judgements. That can be scary if you don't have enough input to go on though.....



There is a great many members who can through their own personal experience validate their own end results via postings, but even then you'd have to take a step toward accepting such. But more importantly, if you don't / won't / cannot take the time to search out Threads for the specific answers you seek...or in the least post a Thread asking for specific answers and then determine by your own reasoning as to if the posted commentary applies to your questions and concerns, then you at an impasse, and you have to make up your mind what seems most relevant to your circumstances.


As for using Small Samples to judge any Screen's performance, Mfg or DIY, smallish samples are not conclusive. They are used by some to make spot measurements, and even those can be and often are wholly misleading as far as what a particular application will do as a full sized example. And to illustrate that point, even those who used to beat the "Testing Drum" to extremes now have concluded that one must use specific (...and expensive...) specialized measuring Equipment and Software on a full sized Screen showing the exact type of light dispersion that is there in real life instances to get anything even close to definitive results.


Even then, some twist facts and procedures to try to mislead. Take the example where someone reverses an image to become a "negative" and then points out how the center of a projected image looks darker than the edges....and then states that's representative of "Hot Spotting". No...there isn't a single PJ on the Planet that produces 100% uniformity of dispersed light. It's the bane of any good reflective surface to highlight such disparities....only screens with sub-1.0 gain performance will reduce such an effect. And of course, such things are really only visible in the "negative" view. Even more consternating is the fact that whenever such example are show, you never, ever4 see any other Screen's performance represented....unless one is comparing a positive gain surface against a negative gain surface...and in that case, the comparison isn't really valid at all as far as being able to evoke criticisms.


As such, unless someone is willing and able to provide samples that are sized upward of 2' x 3', and then depend upon a layman's own approximation of what is actually being seen / accomplished, it all really boils down to being an exercise in appeasement....and that's about the extent of it. It's just not a logical or manageable thing to try to do considering the sheer numbers of individuals we attempt to help get projects accomplished. Really, only those with an agenda to prove feel such a need to comply, and usually, that's about all they do to help people....not supply effective and comprehensive assistance on any / every needed and requested front. And even then....whose to say what is valid and what is being purposefully misrepresented?


This Forum is based truly around "DIY-ism" and the published reports of End Users. Newcomers must accept that their thoughts on such matters are not a "first time" affair...literally thousands of such questions have been answered by the "doing" of other members.


Now then addressing costs. They are not at all excessive or out of line. "Virtually" assured results can be had by the purchase of a under $50.00 Electric HVLP Gun, and approx $35-$90.00 of paint. (depending on what needs to be addressed / considered. If one purchased a 5' x 10' sheet of Sintra for $100.00 and the auxiliary items needed (Paint Can/s, Plastic Sheeting, Tape, Filters, Mixing Wand) one usually winds up spending about $225.00 - $250.00 total for a High Performance DIY "Fixed" Screen. Use a smaller Substrate or an existing wall and that cost can drop by $100.00. To that effect, your simplest solution would be one involving a DIY mix that has positive gain "and" a Moderate Gray surface. A high quality White Base Paint tinted to N8.5 would both resist modest ambient light and deliver a perceived boost in the depth of Black Levels. beyond that, anything substancially darker would require a Mix that contains Reflective elements that can boost actual gain to 1.2 - 1.4 to really deliver effective results.


That would be Silver Fire 2.5 3.0 or above.


A good, correctly done "Fixed" DIY Screen should easily compare to or best a $2800.00+ Mfg Screen. It's those sort of numbers that make us who advocate "Get'tin' it done" feel that too much "time wasted" is the real issue at hand. We live...(or die) by the end results of those we help get a project underway.


So far, no Funeral dirges have been sounded.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The thing with just going by testimonials is I don't know what those people were after, or how picky they are, or anything that would tell me if a solution that satisfies them would satisfy me.


The reason samples -- of any size -- would be useful to me is to see the pros and cons of different paints/materials. For example, would I find the whites of an image projected on a grey paint/material to be acceptable? Would a higher gain surface bring up my blacks to a level that drives me crazy? Beats me. I've been able to get DW samples and have spandex samples on the way, so at the very least I can compare color/blacks/whites/brightness to my BOC and to each other.


I thought Silver Fire was more about ambient light, which is not an issue for me? In most posts I've seen with people who seem to be looking for sort of what I'm looking for, it seemed the most common recommendation was RSMaxxMudd LL.


Anyone know if DW can be returned to Home Depot or Lowe's as long as it is uncut? I figure I could stick it up with mirror clips just to try out different movies on it and see how it looks.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1420966/few-questions-about-wilsonart-dw#post_22289732


IMO....for what that may or not be worth....WA-DW has never been worth the price or the needed installation criteria it presents. ONLY when a larger than normal Substrate with a ultra smooth surface is needed, and one does not want to deal with BOC Screen construction issues, is the very largest sheets of WA-DW desirable.

....and even then, I'd paint on 'em to make them wholly desirable and effective.


This is very damn shocking. WA-DW had been a very solid DIY option. Anyone that have read through laminate thread would agree.


It was a simple, cheap DIY option that put up a pretty darn good picture. All without the need to mix a dozen of paint cans and spray gun.


Sure there are more options these days, considering the steep price drops on commercial screens.


One might as well pick up an Elite screen or similar for $300-$400. But to discredit the WA-DW as a viable DIY screen option a few years ago, is just ludicrous.

 

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Well I based my opinion (...and I did say it was a "IMO" didn't I ?....) on knowledge of exactly what is involved in making a WA-DA screen, the risks and caveats as opposed as the benefits, as relates to the costs, and I still and will always maintain that there are better alternatives. I didn't say it wasn't "Viable" in any case.....but I did say there was better choices out there for DIY'ers. It was NEVER simple and cheap. Especially if you went to the larger sized variations. Nor was the price at all consistent, or availability all that dependable. Basically, those who did have successful projects pretty much ignored the issues and considerations they had to face, and expounded upon Image Quality. And yeah....there were quite a few Happy Campers. But everyone of those had to do a "GOOD" job making a quality supporting Frame just to get past square one...and those Frames easily cost almost the same amount as the WA-DW.....then they also had a good PJ match up...and they also had the PJ mounted ideally. Anyone who had to or intentional fudged on any of those aspects almost certainly had a grouse to espouse.


When first it became popular, even then the rate of dissatisfaction and issue occurrence was at least 25% or more of all end users. Read the entire WA-DW Thread again...along with virtually all of the corresponding follow up threads by End Users (... such as I have...) and you'd be better able to understand my position instead of being so "shocked". Chief complaints....Hot Spotting due to surface sheen and a total lack of Black Level retention. Then came construction issues / costs and quality control ( ...a good many returns were effected....or pieces cut down smaller or scrapped altogether...) And cleaning issues, some that left obvious streaking and areas where the sheen was reduced by the rubbing a good cleaning generated. Brother....a blemished WA-DW screen is not a easily replaceable project. It is however one that can be salvaged quite nicely by over-painting onto the original surface. And you best believe that course of action has saved the proverbial day for many a distraught DIY'er.


DIY is and always has been about how well the "Majority" can create the best possible screen for the least amount of time and money. Somewhere along the line, compromises or improvements are made....some are willing to spend more...some would consider spending only the bare minimum.


Because of that, WA-DW was never a solution for the Masses.In fact, the initial WA-DW advocates were CRT owners who outnumbered everyone else for a time. WA-DW done correctly, used correctly, and accommodated with a properly set up environment, it could do a pretty decent job. espically when CRT level blacks were being shown. But the virtue of WA-DW having close to the same gain as a ST130 because of it's sheen isn't the same as performing as well as a ST130 that has no sheen, and compounding the issue is that there have been and are still available some pretty basic DIY Paints that can do as good as or better job than a ST130...for 1/3 the cost of a big sheet of raw WA-DW. But times have changed, and ownership of a Reference white screen isn't as desirable, nor as popular anymore.


Balancing Cost, Labor, Risks, WA-DW is a problematical choice at best, and a potential disappointment all too often. That is a primary reason it is no longer considered a popular application. No one has waged any war against it. It's own drawbacks are all the "shot-to-the-foot" it needs.


That being said, if someone could get a sheet of 4' x 8' WA-DW for next to nothing...undamaged and unblemished, manage to cut it down to their desired format without cracking it....glue it correctly to a substrate or well built, well braced Hardwood Frame, manage to attach Trim to the assembly without issue...hang it without issue, and put it into a room without reflective light issues...and leave the lights off...and use a PJ with modest Lumens...superb Contrast, and place both their PJ and their arses in optimal position....absolutely, it will look very, very good. Just like any good white surface will under ideal circumstances such as a dedicated Theater Room. Which BTW was the use it found the vast majority of times it was chosen..


I'll agree that the percentage of DIY'er making a step toward having dedicated Theaters has risen quite a bit. How many DIY'ers can meet all those criteria? How many do we see who simply cannot paint a Ceiling a darker color, or hang Curtain treatments on the adjoining walls? Or even change their lighting scheme? Far fewer than those who can consider more "Build - Cost Friendly" applications that are both well proven performance-wise and accepted as being cost effective as well....applications that also give them more leeway in room design, and therein keepi the WAF factor at acceptable levels.


What's really ludicrous is how you seem unable to see the bigger, more obvious DIY picture. But perhaps not really since your sudden "pop in" post and attitude seems more an exercise at just being confrontational instead of being objective. And perhaps also since you originally had a WA-DW screen back awhile ago, and felt the need to look for something different (...except for it being a bright white surface...which you stated previously that it was that aspect you missed over the plain old Gray surface you decided to paint......so there must have been something else lacking, yes? ) I wouldn't expect you to be anything else but a defender of the decision you yourself made a few years back. Most would do likewise...unless they actually made the attempt to step up...not back.


But that was "a few years back" and you never did decide to try any real advanced Paint formula. And you also recently voted with your feet far as any meaningful, constructive involvement on this DIY Screen Forum. DIY Screen making should embrace many potential options, but anyone who has a grasp of the different advantages and disadvantages of many different DIY Screen applications would be remiss if they did not share such information...the Good, along with the Bad & Ugly. I'll always do exactly that, and do so without insulting anyone's own opinion. I can easily say "Your mistaken" or say "Your doing / saying something wrong without saying someone is being ludicrous.


That's considered bad manners on this Forum...and those who have felt they had need to post as such have found their own place where such Birds seem to flock together.
 

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Discussion Starter #20

Quote:
But the virtue of WA-DW having close to the same gain as a ST130 because of it's sheen isn't the same as performing as well as a ST130 that has no sheen

This is probably the aspect that is doing more than anything to make me hesitant.
Quote:
But the virtue of WA-DW having close to the same gain as a ST130 because of it's sheen isn't the same as performing as well as a ST130 that has no sheen, and compounding the issue is that there have been and are still available some pretty basic DIY Paints that can do as good as or better job than a ST130...for 1/3 the cost of a big sheet of raw WA-DW.

What basic DIY paints do as good or better job than an ST130, without having the issues of sheen?
Quote:
But times have changed, and ownership of a Reference white screen isn't as desirable, nor as popular anymore.

Why not? With projectors having dramatically better contrast and blacks than they used to, so that black level is not an issue even on a white screen, wouldn't one want the whitest whites in a dedicated theater? My friend has a JVC RS35 and an ST130 and the picture, imo, is as good as I can imagine it getting (until we get 4k). The image is quite bright, the whites are truly white, and the blacks are essentially indistinguishable from the black velvet border. Of course this doesn't apply to a projector with only 3000:1 contrast like my HC4000, but my contrast is probably considered borderline inadequate these days. I would have thought white screens would be more desirable than ever in dedicated theaters with today's high contrast projectors?


Anyway, my latest thinking is I'll give Home Depot and Lowe's a call, get a price on DW, and see if it's something I can return as long as I have not cut it. If so, I'll get it, prop it up somehow, and take a look to see if the sheen is an issue and if otherwise it looks good.


If not, then I'll probably turn to trying some paint solutions, hopefully painting on my current BOC screen, or possibly painting directly on the wall (I'll have to take my screen down and see what kind of shape it's in). Sintra is $100 if I pick up, and with a regular car I don't even know how I would get it home. I'm not even sure a 5x10 piece could make it around the turn in my basement stairs. Btw, what's the difference between Sintra and Komatex? Same distributor quoted me $98 for Sintra versus $80 for Komatex.


It'll probably take me a few tries to find a paint I like, since I don't know if I want a grey screen of some sort, or a basic white.


To elaborate a bit on what I consider my current image failings: Bright scenes look great, albeit a hair dim considering their content (i.e. snowboarding as in The Art of Flight isn't as bright as the blinding white snow and bright colored clothing would suggest). Many dark movies and scenes look great to me as well -- stuff like Alien, Tron Legacy, Blade Runner. The biggest failings are with movies that aren't "dark" per se, but "dim" -- movies that are generally kind of brown and flat, like The Road or Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. These look so dim I feel like I can barely see them, presumably because, unlike Alien etc, rather than being a mix of black + bright lights in a scene, it is just a wash of greys and browns with no brights to provide the contrast.


Again, my hesitation comes from the fact that I haven't read much in these weeks of reading this forum and the other that convinces me I'll see a really significant improvement from the BOC. I mean, I already have a screen, and it's one that cost me about $40-50 tops to put together. I'll be really disappointed if I spend $200 or so to make a new one and I don't see an easily noticeable upgrade; I'll be sitting there thinking "why did I spend all this money and time?" On the other hand, I do like a project
 
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