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For projector route only, I hung black Duvetyne about 4' x 10' on top of my 120" screen as a compromise and made a dramatic difference in black level, making my JVC RS500 even better. WAF be damned. It's my toy room. I do agree that no painting of the ceiling.
Further, I put on a 10' black rung on the floor as well as using black acoustic cloth wrapping around sound absorbing OC 703 fiberglass insulation on my back wall. The sidewalls are in light grey paint.
GL.
 

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DO NOT BUY A ALR SCREEN!!!!

Only use lighting near the seating area. It will provide plenty of light for you to enter, move about, and entertain. As long as these are downward pointing spot lights, you won't have any significant on-screen issues.

Also, paint your darn ceiling.

Then, get a front projector that gives you at least 10" of diagonal for each foot of viewing distance. Preferably, buy a projector first, then try it out and pick your screen size after watching a few movies on your painted wall.
 

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It's been awhile since I had my old Sim2 three chip DLP, it was about 2500 lumens and I paired it with a very good DNP Supernova ambient light screen at 100" diagonal. Seating is at about 15 feet. I've got black out shades and dimmable down firing can lights for the back half of the room. I do miss the bigger screen as there's no substitute for size as far as immersion is concerned. But my setup and use case is similar to yours, and even though my OLED is only 77", I wouldn't go back. The 88" OLED's are still way out of reach on price, but the 85" Sony X950 line or higher 85"ers are very nice and reasonably priced. I think it's very tough if not impossible to get that kind of HDR performance out of a projector without spending much more money, and being willing to go all in on ambient light suppression. No big deal for sports and regular TV, but Ultra HD material, and any average to dark movies (e.g. space based sci-fi or Harry Potter type stuff) is likely to be considerably better on the LED's. You should still limit the ambient light as the WAF allows, but it doesn't have to be over the top to get a great outcome. Good blackout shades, and lights that don't shine directly on the screen accomplishes a lot. By the way if you go with a projector, that first few feet of white ceiling above the screen is absolutely going to light up (and reflect back onto the screen), even with a ambient light screen. It doesn't make the picture unwatchable by any means, but it is a distraction.
 

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DO NOT BUY A ALR SCREEN!!!!

Only use lighting near the seating area. It will provide plenty of light for you to enter, move about, and entertain. As long as these are downward pointing spot lights, you won't have any significant on-screen issues.

Also, paint your darn ceiling.

Then, get a front projector that gives you at least 10" of diagonal for each foot of viewing distance. Preferably, buy a projector first, then try it out and pick your screen size after watching a few movies on your painted wall.

I've found an ALR screen great,

Unless you have a blacked out theatre room, an ALR screen is going to improve your image correctly EVEN if you have no light coming into the room due to reflected light.

The issue with ALR screens are pricing, viewing angles if your room is tiny and throw distance incorrect and hotspotting, again if your viewing distance and throw ratio are incorrect.

an ALR screen IMO allows a projector to almost act as a TV and nothing for me beats someone turning on a light or opening the door with light pouring in and the image is fantastic.


Back when I used white screen, I used to die in side when someone would open the door or put on a light as the image would disintegrate before my eyes and I would see some sneaky grins from people remmebering it is a projector. with an ALR screen.. its just so god damn reliable and beautiful.


Although I agree room treatment is of vital importance, the bottom line is some people don't want an all-black room or ceiling and for this reason, an ALR is obviously going to provide the best improvement to black level and perceived contrast if you dont want to room treat.
 
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Discussion Starter #25
Getting back to this. Seems some 5040ub refurbs have popped up again. Between the 5040 and 5050, seems the biggest "difference" is support for 10gbps vs 18, does that mostly come into play for gaming?

On the ALR screen, where you say pricing is an issue/throw distance, etc. With the 5040 at 17' on a 120-135" screen, do you foresee any issues in the room I posted above?

Painting the ceiling is pretty much a non-starter, maybe I could paint the bulkhead part the same grey if that helps, it's only about a foot deep though.
 

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What is the source for gaming?

For ALR a longer throw ratio is required. I don't know if you'll be ok with artifacting.

Can you paint with a paint gun?
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Might be a PS5, but chances are very little gaming will be done on the PJ as my son prefers to game in a dedicated room. Or maybe with his old PS4 or Switch on the PJ

I can't paint... well I could... but I'd have to patch up the plug and wire outlet that is on the wall right now.

I wouldn't be ok with artifacting...would drive me nuts.

Given that.. Any particular screen you'd recco noob?
 

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Might be a PS5, but chances are very little gaming will be done on the PJ as my son prefers to game in a dedicated room. Or maybe with his old PS4 or Switch on the PJ

I can't paint... well I could... but I'd have to patch up the plug and wire outlet that is on the wall right now.

I wouldn't be ok with artifacting...would drive me nuts.

Given that.. Any particular screen you'd recco noob?
For a screen with any ALR properties, with those dimensions, paint mixes are the only option, that will not have artifacts.
A white screen, even drop down can be painted.

If not get a white screen. Silver Ticket is budget option.

Regardless, as it's been said before, lights close to the screen will ruin any image.

For projector 5040UB has 10GB HDMI, which I would not recommend considering the source, for HDR.
 

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If gaming, in my experience the 6050UB fell apart in regards to resolution (and contrast). Gaming content simply shows up the 4K E-shift badly and Epson's sharpening algorithms and presets are amazing for films, but useless for games. From this perspective, I don't think the 6040/5040 can offer much better, or moreso, worse due to the 10gbps port.

However, the Epson 6050UB/5050UB have the HDR slider which DOES make a difference and is almost a neccesity for videogames because so many of them are poorly mastered in regards to HDR. However even in my experience, the 6050UB on TLOU2 was terrible. It looked nice, but the HDR representation lacks so much pop, colour and specular highlight detail which my FALD TV and OLEDs provided. I could forgive this but the HDR tone mapping was not good. Lighter scenes looked dimmer, daytime snow scene at the start of the TLOU2 on the projector looks like mid-evening. I don't think this is the fault of the PJ, its the way games are produced with HDR in mind (some target nit values are insanely stupid, like 10,000 and require DTM which the Epson doesn't have).

For films, the 6050UB with HDR was fine with the slider and I could reach a happy medium very quickly (although MADVR or a Lumagen is preferred for ease of use) and get a fantastic image which was pleasing to the eye.

Overall, I would say a 6050UB is required for gaming or 5050UB due to the 18GBPs ports but the 4K- Eshift will rear its head and show some deficiencies in games such as TLOU2, RDR2, GTA V, any games which have high detailed small objects on screen because they will lack the contrast and colour to define them from an OLED or JVC panel and the sheer resolution too. This does beg the question, how far awa are the 6040UB and 6050UB in 1080p and 4K-E shift mode. I haven't been able to test it. I imagine the 6050ub will pull ahead but I don't think the margin will be that big as I always felt the 6050 still needed over sharpening for games anywya (preset 2-3)

It will look 'fine' in isolation although slightly low on graphical fidelity until you switch to a native 4K panel or an OLED.. then you will realise wow. I had this badly with TLOU2 where I was not impressed by the game at all on the 6050UB graphically. When I switched gaming to the OLED, I had to write a 'sorry I'm wrong post' on a videogame forum where I'd ripped into TLOU2.

For films, 1080p, 3D, 4K both are utterly fantastic IMO with the 6050UB being a clear winner if you don't have a MADVR/Lumagen/DTM device because you need to be able to finetune the HDR image at times.

My one word of warning would be price. If the price difference between a 5050 and a 5040 is signficant enough that you could put it towards a FALD or OLED TV fund.. I would edge towards that dependant on viewing distance. I've personally gone for an Epson 6040UB (for 1080p films, 4K Films which don't have crazy challenging HDR performance, 3D films!!) and a LG OLED 77'' for chalenging 4K HDR films where I want to see reference quality and video games (for HDMI 2.1, 4K native, 120hz). I'd reccomend this kind of setup to proper gamers who want the best from their PS5 or PS4 Pro or gaming PC but don't want to commit to a JVC NX7 (contrast is so important for videogame representation of fidelity AND HDR which both are combining these days).

The price difference between the 6040UB and 6050UB was £1400 which equates to around 140% price increase, and gets you 40% of the way towards a 77'' OLED in my country. If you can carefully balance your budget by going refurb or second hand with some intact warranty, you can end up with the best of both worlds.

Screen wise, its a pain.
My only advice is to go secondhand, refurb or 'damaged goods' as the resale value on a screen has to be one of the worst in home theatre. Firstly its value pummets so fast because its custom made to your room/situation, secondly its finding someone who wants that exact screen and finally you need to SHIP the screen to them or they come to you.

If you want to go REALLY cheap and get the best value, DIY your own. No doubt about it. If you want convinenace, find a cheap screen second hand which is electric and tab tensioned. They WILL pop up. I've picked up two before and could have got my third. I have paid for my two screens 50% less than one would have cost new so there are deals out there but timing is crucial.



TLDR:
Screen:
1. Go DIY or second hand electric
2. Screens plummet in value the second you buy them, so if you are going first hand, pick wisely.

Gaming:
1. 6050UB > 6040UB but they both are not great at resolution
2. HDR is limited on both models due to the low contrast panels in relation to the demand video games require for their image
3. HDR slider is useful on 6050UB but will not be a solution for a lot of games due to poor mastering of HDR content

Movies and films
1. If using MADVR or DTM software Epson 5040/6040
2. If not using DTM software, 6050/5050 will be far more useful for HDR films due to the slider.

Conclusions:
1. If gaming is a priority and you have a PS5, its hard to look past saving money on the projector and putting more money towards an OLED panel due to reference image, DTM, 4K 120hz, HDMI 2.1, VRR, high contrast, specular highlight detail for video game OR going for a native JVC PJ if you are a baller and fully comitted to the PJ life.
2. I type too much.
 

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Getting back to this. Seems some 5040ub refurbs have popped up again. Between the 5040 and 5050, seems the biggest "difference" is support for 10gbps vs 18, does that mostly come into play for gaming?

On the ALR screen, where you say pricing is an issue/throw distance, etc. With the 5040 at 17' on a 120-135" screen, do you foresee any issues in the room I posted above?

Painting the ceiling is pretty much a non-starter, maybe I could paint the bulkhead part the same grey if that helps, it's only about a foot deep though.
I don't see an issue. Epson + ALR at short throw caused me no hot spotting. The other PJs I used with lower lumen count did.


At the end of the day it is a bit of compromise.

If somoene asked me I could pick
1. PJ setup with maybe some very minor hot spotting (edges slightly darker than middle), I can turn on the lights and still use the projector AND with the lights off I get better perceived contrast because the light bouncing off my ceiling does not destroy the image of the PJ
2. I have no hot spotting at all but if someone turns on the lights, the image is destroyed, and I have a lower contrast with the lights off and black level because of light reflecting around the room...

I would pick #1.

some people are very anti ALR.. and I see their point of view in a treated room, In a non treated room, I just don't like the poor blacks and contrast wich ALR eliminates.

Your other choice is a grey screen which would help with black floor and perceived contrast at least.


Anyway good luck with ur decisions! Don't think I can think of anything more to add. If you are going on all in for PJ and your budget ends at Epson, the 6050/5050 should cover more bases. However if you are trying to be smart and maybe save for a future upgrade +/- an OLED for best in class gaming experience, I would definitely get a 5040 and budget.

Also resale value on the 5040 is going to be amazing, the 5050/6050 as a newer model is obviously set to lose more $$ when re-selling.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
So I have a 65" OLED upstairs, and will have a dedicated room for my son to game. Maybe I have misled things with the gaming content, since it will literally only be when my son has multiple friends over and "maybe" wants to game in the basement room and not in the dedicated gaming room. Possibly 5% of the viewing.

Vast majority of viewing will be sports (hockey for the most part, then basketball, occasional football and other sports); TV watching; Netflix streaming, then lastly, occasional 4k bluray).

Reviews of the 5040/5050 seem to imply it's one of if not the best <$3k projectors around, the 5050 more so than the 5040 given it is newer.

Thinking about it, zero critical viewing will be done with much/if any light, movies certainly the room can be darkened to the point where only the ceiling is causing a reflection (and I can paint the first 12" of it since the screen will be below the bulkhead). Regular day to day TV watching will likely be for the most part on the main floor with the OLED, and by my kids in the basement.

Would that change the screen from ALR to white?
 

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My throw is 17', not considered a short throw I assume which was what Noob was getting at, or did I misunderstand?
Hotspotting is a concern for a SHORT throw ratio. I have no idea what noob is getting at as I can't speak on behalf of him. 17 ft is a long throw distance (5.1M).

On an Epson, you're bang in the middle of the lens and no where near either zoom or wide lens by throwing as a 125'' image.

IMO You are in a pretty much perfect position to get an ALR screen.

If you were trying to throw the maximum sized image from the minimum distance possible, artefacts can be more common but from your ratio, it will be fine. I find the dimmer projectors seem to artefact more easily or at least increase perception of it. If you get an Epson, which is a light cannon, again you'll be fine IMO.

Dependant on which screen you get, check manufacturers information or better yet, just ask/check at a dealer.
 

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So I have a 65" OLED upstairs, and will have a dedicated room for my son to game. Maybe I have misled things with the gaming content, since it will literally only be when my son has multiple friends over and "maybe" wants to game in the basement room and not in the dedicated gaming room. Possibly 5% of the viewing.

Vast majority of viewing will be sports (hockey for the most part, then basketball, occasional football and other sports); TV watching; Netflix streaming, then lastly, occasional 4k bluray).

Reviews of the 5040/5050 seem to imply it's one of if not the best <$3k projectors around, the 5050 more so than the 5040 given it is newer.

Thinking about it, zero critical viewing will be done with much/if any light, movies certainly the room can be darkened to the point where only the ceiling is causing a reflection (and I can paint the first 12" of it since the screen will be below the bulkhead). Regular day to day TV watching will likely be for the most part on the main floor with the OLED, and by my kids in the basement.

Would that change the screen from ALR to white?
5% of viewing re: games and kids, pocket the change from the 5040. For casual fun games with friends and family, the 5040 will blow 99% of people away as most people haven't experienced a decent fidelity of projection. I thought maybe the split was 50/50. If you have a dedicated OLED 65''... its a no brainer most people will game on that. and if u wana upgrade it, the change saved can go to an upgrade of OLED panel.

Save the $1000 and either put it in an 'epson 6060UB fund' for the next 8 months time or use it to buy a HTPC for MADVR for dynamic tone mapping and media playback (and PC gaming) and a Panasonic UB820 (for 4K UHD disc playback with a built in HDR slider anyway) or an LG 77'' OLED fund for when they are on clearance in 5 months time.


Obviously I don't know the price difference but in the UK, the 9300 is £1000, the 9400 is £2500 so its really a no brainer which is better value. The £1500 can give you a HTPC and a Bluray player which will be in your setup forever (or at least a very long time and take visual fidelity to the NEXT level) or it can be used to pay for nearly 40% of the next PJ upgrade... or it can.. you know.. just be saved :) or as I said.. £1000 saving + sell your 65'' OLED and you're only a thousand bucks away from having a 77'' OLED and a projector... !

From your description, the majority of your viewing is not even 4K HDR which FURTHER leans me towards the 5040.

Now I am not saying HDR is not important. It will be one day. But when that day comes for you properly, it'll likely be a day where we have the Epson 50/6060UB with built in DTM, native 4K etc. which is why I think spend less today, to spend more tomorrow.

If the epson 6050/5050 were released last week.. I could understand.. but we are in a weird period due to COVID where devices are a bit late being announced but will get refreshed at some point.






Sorry for my long complex posts.. but I always try to think of the ENTIRE setup in relation to what we use our devices for. I am a fan of having the most upgradable tools in a HT setup alongside the right devices for the job taking into account their strengths and weaknesses.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Thanks, actually I think I just confused myself re-reading Noob's responses.

Now I am not saying HDR is not important. It will be one day. But when that day comes for you properly, it'll likely be a day where we have the Epson 50/6060UB with built in DTM, native 4K etc. which is why I think spend less today, to spend more tomorrow.
Yes, that's my exact thinking right now. The 5040 should give me ~2 years or so of viewing pleasure. Though, much of what is on Netflix right now is DV or HDR, not sure it's anywhere near as good as bluray though.
 

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Thanks, actually I think I just confused myself re-reading Noob's responses.



Yes, that's my exact thinking right now. The 5040 should give me ~2 years or so of viewing pleasure. Though, much of what is on Netflix right now is DV or HDR, not sure it's anywhere near as good as bluray though.
The brighter the projector the stronger the artifact.

Save for a few ALR screens, recommended throw is at least 1.9x (screen width). The closer it is the bigger the artifact. I don't know how much you will notice. Hotspots and other artifacts are not short throw specific.

My recommendation is either a white screen or a painted mix if you want to avoid any visual artifacts.
 

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Depends on what you're looking for. I have a 75" 4K Sony XBR940E (was a flagship from a few years back) and a 150" 1080p 3D projector in a dedicated theater.

Picture quality - hands down the 75" TV. The projector picture quality is good don't get me wrong (also a Sony) but it can't compare to modern TV tech.

Screen size - If I'm doing dedicated theater it's the 150" screen I'm running. Sorry, I'll take the slight picture quality hit for the immersion of screen size. Plus it's considerably cheaper to go big on a projector compared to a TV. They start getting exponentially more expensive going from a 55" and then definitely from a 65" or 77" if doing OLED.

Good luck!
 
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The brighter the projector the stronger the artifact.

Save for a few ALR screens, recommended throw is at least 1.9x (screen width). The closer it is the bigger the artifact. I don't know how much you will notice. Hotspots and other artifacts are not short throw specific.

My recommendation is either a white screen or a painted mix if you want to avoid any visual artifacts.
Which ALR screens have you used with which projectors out of interest? Would be interesting to hear brands of screens and projectors where you found issues and if so which throw ratios? Could guide us all on what circumstances do and don't work.

In my experience the exact opposite is true, re: hotspotting relavant to brightness of PJ
Using HW40ES on an ALR - Hot spotting, specifically centre of image brighter than edges.
Using Epson 9400 on an ALR = Couldn't perceive any hot spotting
Using Draper React screen.
 
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